[chris leedlelee]

If only, you know, conservatives had people in office in order to break up big tech. Oh wait, they did from 2016-2018, and nothing was done by the feckless GOP, despite warnings from the more tech savvy among us. Now we are entering this dystopian nightmare eerily similar to 1984.

[alabama24]

Did Pence not do enough to sever himself from Trump this week?

Not after enabling it for four years.

Outside of the demeanor and saltiness that he couldn't control...what did he enable, specifically?

Yeah, that is my question.

I have a number of Liberal friends who are angry at everyone in the Trump administration because they "enabled" Trump. There were many good people in the Trump administration. What would they rather have? Good people so called "enabling" Trump (I would say providing stability and reason) or just a bunch of Kooks?

[jbock13]

To a liberal, anyone who supported Trump is look, regardless of whether they are actually a kook. That’s why I can’t take their phony outrage seriously. Having said that, the riots were a predictable result of the damage that populist nationalism has done to the Republican base.

[Jonathan Carone]

By Pence joining the ticket in 2016, he enabled Trump to say, "See - I have someone with experience to help me with this." That allowed people who were worried about electing a television host to be president. He gave the ticket legitimacy.

For the past four year, he enabled Trump's behavior by consistently supporting it publicly.

Through the campaign, he enabled the narrative that Trump wouldn't peacefully transfer power if he lost by not confirming that he would, in fact, transfer power peacefully. That allowed the narrative that played out Wednesday to continue to gain steam.

Just like at Liberty where we say the C-suite enabled Jerry to do what he did by not calling him on it, Pence enabled Trump to do the things he did by not speaking against it.

[paradox]

What specifically did Pence enable?

[paradox]

How do you break up something like Facebook or Twitter without further silo-ing people into echo chambers?

How about just require the platforms to allow free speech? Police direct personal threats. Seems like a low cost hands off solution.

Exactly. The only thing that they should care about is legality. Policing free speech is the most anti-libertarian thing you can possibly do as a social media platform. It's completely unethical and distasteful, regardless of their rights as a private company. There was a time, and it wasn't too long ago, when both liberals and conservatives shared essential libertarian principles like free speech.

[Purple Haize]

By Pence joining the ticket in 2016, he enabled Trump to say, "See - I have someone with experience to help me with this." That allowed people who were worried about electing a television host to be president. He gave the ticket legitimacy.

For the past four year, he enabled Trump's behavior by consistently supporting it publicly.

Through the campaign, he enabled the narrative that Trump wouldn't peacefully transfer power if he lost by not confirming that he would, in fact, transfer power peacefully. That allowed the narrative that played out Wednesday to continue to gain steam.

Just like at Liberty where we say the C-suite enabled Jerry to do what he did by not calling him on it, Pence enabled Trump to do the things he did by not speaking against it.

Who at LU is equal to Pence? Who gave Junior the legitimacy that Pence gave Trump?

[Jonathan Carone]

There isn’t an equal and you know that. You purposefully tried to pick a specific example to make me look wrong instead of looking at the at large idea it was obvious I was making.

[Purple Haize]

There isn’t an equal and you know that. You purposefully tried to pick a specific example to make me look wrong instead of looking at the at large idea it was obvious I was making.

You were specifically asked about Pence. You specifically said Pence legitimized and enabled Trump. Then compared that to people around Junior. So I’m asking what specific person fills Pence’s role in your comparison? You don’t bring Pence into it I don’t ask about it.

[Jonathan Carone]

I gave three examples how Pence enabled Trump.

There’s not a direct comparison at Liberty. The comparison is how we all agree the C suite at Liberty enabled Jerry and likewise Pence and Trump’s inner circle enabled Trump.

[Purple Haize]

and likewise Pence and Trump’s inner circle enabled Trump.

So who is the Pence at LU? He’s the only person you are singling out I agree that he put a lot of people at ease when he got put on the ticket. He’s a unique individual in a unique position. If you take Pence out of the equation you probably don’t have a Trump Presidency.
You’ve singled Pence out for extra scorn. You compared the enabling to LU. So again I aske, who was LU’s Pence? Or perhaps Pence isn’t as bad as you thought

[Jonathan Carone]

I singled out Pence because JK asked if Pence had severed the ties with Trump enough to run in four years. I was responding to that specific question.

[alabama24]

By Pence joining the ticket in 2016, he enabled Trump

Jonathan - Even when I don't agree with you, I normally think you have a well thought out position. Not so much in this case.

Rewind 4 years. Like it or not (I didn't), Trump became the Nominee. now what? Someone has to join the ticket, and someone will. I did not know much of anything about Pence before he became the nominee, but he has served admirably during his four years. He has been a voice of reason, and has walked Trump back. I don't know what better outcome you could have wanted in a VP.

Let me also say: Trump has been an absolute embarrassment since he lost the election. (I think of his quote, "I don't like losers." is appropriate). However, I have not seen any evidence that was an impeachable offense before the election. The Democrat strategy was to delegitimize the administration FROM DAY ONE. Trump could have rescued a kitten from a tree and (because of a famous tape) would have been accused of something obscene.

Trumps administration did have some successes. Pence was a part of that. If Covid had not hit, I believe Trump would have won re-election. His two greatest failures as president?

1. He claimed to be the great deal maker. He proved not to be. When you are the Big Bad Boardroom Boss, you can use intimidation to push people around. He was off balance from the start because of the DNC game plan and because of his personality, he never was able to make headway.

2. How he TALKED about Covid. If someone wants to make an articulate case for how his administration failed in ACTIONS (rather than talk) with COVID, I will be glad to listen. It better take into consideration all the missteps of the governors, mayors, CDC, etc. I give much grace to those in leadership over COVID, even when I think they got it wrong. There was blame everywhere.

(Take the vaccine as an example. TRUMP talked about "operation warp speed." Now that the vaccine is here, TRUMPSTERS refuse to take it. So do some Liberals who think vaccines from Russia or Cuba would be more reliable because this is "trump's" vaccine.)

[alabama24]

Oh, I forgot a third failure, which is the biggest failure in my mind. You can tell the character of a person by how they treat people, and especially how they treat their friends. Trump didn't treat his friends well, starting with Jeff Sessions.

[Purple Haize]

Oh, I forgot a third failure, which is the biggest failure in my mind. You can tell the character of a person by how they treat people, and especially how they treat their friends. Trump didn't treat his friends well, starting with Jeff Sessions.

I’d argue Trump doesn’t really have Friends in the traditional sense. He has family and that’s it. Every other relationship is transactional. If he does have friends they certainly aren’t in politics.

[thepostman]

He doesn't even treat his family all that well if we are honest.

As far as Pence goes, I get the criticism but I have always felt better knowing he was in the room. I haven't hid my feelings on Trump but I really do think Pence is a good man and has done more good than bad in regards to this administration.

[Jonathan Carone]

I agree Pence did as well as he could as a VP, but the stain of Trump will be too much. He has lost the support of the Trump Republicans and the moderate wing of the party will associate him with Trump. It’s a lose lose for him.

I think there’s no chance Cruz or Hawley get the nomination. If anyone from Trumpism can overcome it, it’ll be Nikki Haley and even that’s doubtful.

I think 2024 will see someone like Cotton or Sasse climb. They were in line policy wise with a lot of Trump’s policy but they conduct themselves totally different. Just like coaching changes tend to go from one side of the pendulum to the other, that’s my prediction for 2024. Don’t know who it’ll be, but it’ll be someone with a trong conservative policies and an attitude of decency.

[Purple Haize]

He doesn't even treat his family all that well if we are honest.

As far as Pence goes, I get the criticism but I have always felt better knowing he was in the room. I haven't hid my feelings on Trump but I really do think Pence is a good man and has done more good than bad in regards to this administration.

For those like you who hate Trump can you imagine how much worse he would have been without someone like Pence on the inside? Imagine what he would be like with someone without Pence’s moral compass next to him the last 4 years?

[thepostman]

Agreed. I have always been glad he was around.

The republican party is really split right now so it is going to take someone pretty special to unify the party. Pence might be that guy but I doubt it. 4 years is a long time so who knows.

[alabama24]

My comments were not an endorsement of Pence in 2024, just that he is not DQ’d in my mind. If runs on the accomplishments of the past 4 years while rejecting the bad, I’d be favorable to him.

My “too early to know” pick is Sasse. I really like him, but he might not be as electable as I’d want, especially in the primary

[rtb72]

I think Pence did the best he could. I felt h was a solid VP, very reasoned and careful, while also being loyal. Considering everything he had to work with and what was going on. I don't think it would behoove either side to start discussing VPs enabling Presidents, that could well carry into the next administration, and decades of administrations before. And I think if everyone here is honest...they know that's true.

[rtb72]

I agree Pence did as well as he could as a VP, but the stain of Trump will be too much. He has lost the support of the Trump Republicans and the moderate wing of the party will associate him with Trump. It’s a lose lose for him.

I think there’s no chance Cruz or Hawley get the nomination. If anyone from Trumpism can overcome it, it’ll be Nikki Haley and even that’s doubtful.

I think 2024 will see someone like Cotton or Sasse climb. They were in line policy wise with a lot of Trump’s policy but they conduct themselves totally different. Just like coaching changes tend to go from one side of the pendulum to the other, that’s my prediction for 2024. Don’t know who it’ll be, but it’ll be someone with a trong conservative policies and an attitude of decency.

I really think the electorate have very short memories. Nothing would surprise me for/from either side. This will be replaced in several years or even months by the next drama coming from DC. Look how fast people moved past the impeachment, the Kavanaugh hearings, Mueller investigation, etc. If there is one thing I have learned in over 35 years of government...the pendulum swings both ways....and often.

[olldflame]

I will repeat that I am not at all happy with what happened at the capital this week, but the dems who are proclaiming it to be the most horrible thing ever seem to have forgotten this:

[stokesjokes]

One thing I think a lot of us younger folks don’t realize is just how volatile the 70s were. There were more than a few leftist terrorist organizations. The Weather Underground immediately comes to mind.

It helps put some of this into perspective- the attack on the capitol was heinous, but it may not be some symbol of crumbling democracy- maybe our institutions have never been all that secure.

Although I guess the needle moves a bit when the current sitting president played an active role in creating this mess.

[Jonathan Carone]

The current president actively inciting it and cheering it on is what makes it so dangerous to me.