A Sea Of Red

Posted: **March 22nd, 2019, 11:51 am**

Interesting read. Declining birth rate is starting to take its toll on universities. Perhaps professors will take a closer look at their liberal views on abortion and having large families if it begans to effect their security.

https://www.usnews.com/news/education-n ... -education

Posted: **March 22nd, 2019, 2:37 pm**

A couple may close, but I don't think half will. But schools should see hand writing on the wall, and do what they can to reduce the cost of a college education. I saw recently that Duke raised their cost to 75,000 per year. That's 300,000 for 4 years.
More kids are being urged to go to trade school, rather than a 4 year school. In Virginia, high school enrollment is shrinking at many schools. With less high school students, that means less college students eventually.

Posted: **March 22nd, 2019, 3:50 pm**

I would dare say my generation will not be pushing our kids into college like our parents generation did with us

Obviously college is important but it has become very clear that it isnt the be all to guarantee success.

Posted: **March 22nd, 2019, 4:09 pm**

Schools are already cutting staff like crazy. The entire model is going to have to change.

Posted: **March 22nd, 2019, 5:19 pm**

LUDad wrote:Interesting read. Declining birth rate is starting to take its toll on universities. Perhaps professors will take a closer look at their liberal views on abortion and having large families if it begans to effect their security.

https://www.usnews.com/news/education-n ... -education

It has nothing to do with that.

More kids are taking gap years and are enrolling in online classes. That's why Arizona State, Penn State, UCF and UF are starting to invest more in online education. Like SJ said the model is going to change.

Posted: **March 22nd, 2019, 6:29 pm**

ballah09 wrote:
LUDad wrote:Interesting read. Declining birth rate is starting to take its toll on universities. Perhaps professors will take a closer look at their liberal views on abortion and having large families if it begans to effect their security.

https://www.usnews.com/news/education-n ... -education
It has nothing to do with that.

More kids are taking gap years and are enrolling in online classes. That's why Arizona State, Penn State, UCF and UF are starting to invest more in online education. Like SJ said the model is going to change.

So you’re saying the joke about Liberty as a diploma mill con school is actually sufficient for the future? Say it ain’t so!

On a serious note, you are right when it comes to student taking online courses for some credits before deciding to become residential. I would even say it’s smart that LU is doing online for high school s o that kids can get college credits and have only two years to go after they graduate high school. It will interesting how things will transition in the next decade or two.

Posted: **March 22nd, 2019, 7:56 pm**

This is another reason why I'm glad I got out of working in higher education. The traditional model is broke.

Posted: **March 22nd, 2019, 8:33 pm**

cruzan_flame13 wrote:
ballah09 wrote:
LUDad wrote:Interesting read. Declining birth rate is starting to take its toll on universities. Perhaps professors will take a closer look at their liberal views on abortion and having large families if it begans to effect their security.

https://www.usnews.com/news/education-n ... -education
It has nothing to do with that.

More kids are taking gap years and are enrolling in online classes. That's why Arizona State, Penn State, UCF and UF are starting to invest more in online education. Like SJ said the model is going to change.
So you’re saying the joke about Liberty as a diploma mill con school is actually sufficient for the future? Say it ain’t so! On a serious note, you are right when it comes to student taking online courses for some credits before deciding to become residential. I would even say it’s smart that LU is doing online for high school s o that kids can get college credits and have only two years to go after they graduate high school. It will interesting how things will transition in the next decade or two.

I’ve had the pleasure of taking online courses with LU and another institution. I still stand by my assessment that Liberty’s online program has much to be desired.

Posted: **March 23rd, 2019, 1:03 pm**

ballah09 wrote:
LUDad wrote:Interesting read. Declining birth rate is starting to take its toll on universities. Perhaps professors will take a closer look at their liberal views on abortion and having large families if it begans to effect their security.

https://www.usnews.com/news/education-n ... -education
It has nothing to do with that.

More kids are taking gap years and are enrolling in online classes. That's why Arizona State, Penn State, UCF and UF are starting to invest more in online education. Like SJ said the model is going to change.

Do the math. In a recent year 2.2 million of the 3.1 million high school grads enrolled in college the following year. App 1.1 million students of the 2.2 million who entered college attended a 4 year school. So, about 35% of hs grads directly entered a 4 year school after graduation from hs. There are app. 1 million abortions each year. If you had NO abortions each year you should see an increase of 350,000 students entering a 4 year program every year. That equates to 31% INCREASED enrollment at four year schools EACH year.

Posted: **March 23rd, 2019, 1:45 pm**

Where are you getting the 1 million number? The latest stats from the CDC from 3 years ago aren't anywhere close to that. 640,000 is the number. I am very much pro life but I am also against exaggerating numbers in an attempt to prove I point.

Also, abortion numbers have seen a steady decline since the 1970s which is awesome. It proves that education in safe sex is effective even if it isnt popular within the Christian bubble.

Sorry to hijack the thread.

Posted: **March 23rd, 2019, 2:18 pm**

Many Liberals don’t want to deal with the consequences of a society that doesn’t value the unborn and many Conservatives don’t want to deal with the consequences of a society that does value the unborn. What else is new?

Posted: **March 23rd, 2019, 3:39 pm**

Back on topic. Your Small Liberal Arts schools are hurting. Those 1200 student sized Christian Colleges and Universities are absolutely in trouble.

Posted: **March 23rd, 2019, 4:14 pm**

thepostman wrote:Where are you getting the 1 million number? The latest stats from the CDC from 3 years ago aren't anywhere close to that. 640,000 is the number. I am very much pro life but I am also against exaggerating numbers in an attempt to prove I point.

Also, abortion numbers have seen a steady decline since the 1970s which is awesome. It proves that education in safe sex is effective even if it isnt popular within the Christian bubble.

Sorry to hijack the thread.

CDC only reports what it receives...

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/ ... orted.html

https://www.stopp.org/article.php?id=15104

https://www.lifenews.com/2012/12/17/cdc ... ationwide/

Posted: **March 23rd, 2019, 4:34 pm**

LUDad wrote:
thepostman wrote:Where are you getting the 1 million number? The latest stats from the CDC from 3 years ago aren't anywhere close to that. 640,000 is the number. I am very much pro life but I am also against exaggerating numbers in an attempt to prove I point.

Also, abortion numbers have seen a steady decline since the 1970s which is awesome. It proves that education in safe sex is effective even if it isnt popular within the Christian bubble.

Sorry to hijack the thread.
No exaggerating. If anything, my 1 million number is conservative. CDC only reports what it receives...

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/ ... orted.html

https://www.stopp.org/article.php?id=15104

https://www.lifenews.com/2012/12/17/cdc ... ationwide/

Posted: **March 23rd, 2019, 6:15 pm**

Or college attendance is down because we’ve had terrible policies that have allowed college costs to soar through the roof and make it unaffordable for the majority of Americans and the current generation sees how much student loan debt can cripple you.

Posted: **March 23rd, 2019, 8:20 pm**

Jonathan Carone wrote:Or college attendance is down because we’ve had terrible policies that have allowed college costs to soar through the roof and make it unaffordable for the majority of Americans and the current generation sees how much student loan debt can cripple you.

And we have a winner! It is almost as if I said this already

Instead this became a conversation about birth rate and abortions...

Posted: **March 23rd, 2019, 9:30 pm**

thepostman wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote:Or college attendance is down because we’ve had terrible policies that have allowed college costs to soar through the roof and make it unaffordable for the majority of Americans and the current generation sees how much student loan debt can cripple you.
And we have a winner! It is almost as if I said this already

Instead this became a conversation about birth rate and abortions...

Thank you very much. As you can see from my opening post, that was precisely my objective with this thread...have a conversation about how abortions affect even the fate of colleges.

Posted: **March 23rd, 2019, 10:40 pm**

Except they don’t.

Posted: **March 23rd, 2019, 11:04 pm**

LUDad wrote:
thepostman wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote:Or college attendance is down because we’ve had terrible policies that have allowed college costs to soar through the roof and make it unaffordable for the majority of Americans and the current generation sees how much student loan debt can cripple you.
And we have a winner! It is almost as if I said this already

Instead this became a conversation about birth rate and abortions...
Thank you very much. As you can see from my opening post, that was precisely my objective with this thread...have a conversation about how abortions affect even the fate of colleges.

Fair enough but it's a ridiculous premise.

Posted: **March 24th, 2019, 11:58 am**

It's an awfully big stretch to claim what an aborted fetus would have done 18 years after it was aborted, especially when 49% of abortions are by people below the poverty level. https://www.guttmacher.org/infographic/ ... tes-income

Families living below the poverty line aren't typically sending children off to college.

Posted: **March 24th, 2019, 5:39 pm**

The answer is up above. More people are realizing that a degree isn't necessary to succeed and more businesses are realizing that a degree isn't needed to determine someone's fitness for a job. Assessment techniques are improving on the business end and access to basic knowledge on nearly any topic is available to anyone with an internet connection. These two forces greatly reduce the need for many people to go to college. Hopefully, this reduction will cause many colleges and universities to ensure that their degrees really do have value and aren't a measurement of time and money someone is willing to spend on education.

Posted: **March 24th, 2019, 7:22 pm**

Jonathan Carone wrote:Or college attendance is down because we’ve had terrible policies that have allowed college costs to soar through the roof and make it unaffordable for the majority of Americans and the current generation sees how much student loan debt can cripple you.

BINGO

Posted: **March 25th, 2019, 10:43 am**

Yacht Rock wrote:The answer is up above. More people are realizing that a degree isn't necessary to succeed and more businesses are realizing that a degree isn't needed to determine someone's fitness for a job. Assessment techniques are improving on the business end and access to basic knowledge on nearly any topic is available to anyone with an internet connection. These two forces greatly reduce the need for many people to go to college. Hopefully, this reduction will cause many colleges and universities to ensure that their degrees really do have value and aren't a measurement of time and money someone is willing to spend on education.

A degree, unless it is in something like law, nursing, engineering etc. allows you to get your foot in the door in most corporations at an entry level. Due to circumstances, I did not go to college. It took ten years of hard work and risk taking to get the major break I need. I proved myself and afterwards, every other job I took "required" a four degree, allowing me to send my kids to a christian school and pay for their degrees at Liberty. You can do it without a degree but it is certainly harder.

Posted: **March 25th, 2019, 11:24 am**

LUDad wrote:
A degree, unless it is in something like law, nursing, engineering etc. allows you to get your foot in the door in most corporations at an entry level. Due to circumstances, I did not go to college. It took ten years of hard work and risk taking to get the major break I need. I proved myself and afterwards, every other job I took "required" a four degree, allowing me to send my kids to a christian school and pay for their degrees at Liberty. You can do it without a degree but it is certainly harder.

More and more corporations are valuing experience in a given field over a degree. Yes, there are businesses that still require a degree but that requirement is starting to dwindle. One of the main reasons is that the value of a degree has been diluted because so many students have been told they have to go to school. A university education is no longer a differentiator in the measurement of knowledge.

Let's say you're right, and it takes 10 years of hard work to get to the point where you have the equivalent of a career that requires a degree.

1. You're doing that without incurring student loan debt.
2. You're doing that while gaining experience in a field or general work experience, which is highly valued.

Compare that with the life of an average student.

1. Taking 4-6 years out of high school instead of gaining full time work experience.
2. Likely incurring student loans in tens of thousands of dollars.

Even if they exit college with a higher paying job than the non-college worker has with 6 years of experience, how much does the loan offset that pay? Is it worth it?

And to be honest, you can get your foot in the door at the largest and most successful corporations in America without a degree. If you're not able to, then you're not trying very hard.

One of the biggest lies told to a generation was that a degree was needed for a good career with a successful corporation. Yes, a degree is needed if you want to be a doctor or a teacher, etc. It certainly doesn't apply to the direction a lot of people take.

Posted: **March 25th, 2019, 2:57 pm**

I will tell you that upper levels of companies the paper still matters. he difference being that the companies are generally foting the bill for the postgrad expenses.

A Sea Of Red

Half of all universities closing over next decade?

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