[Yacht Rock]

I will tell you that upper levels of companies the paper still matters. he difference being that the companies are generally foting the bill for the postgrad expenses.

I can tell you from experience, that for some of the largest and most successful companies in the country, it doesn't matter as much as you'd like to think. And it's not uncommon for companies to pay for at least a portion of undergrad and postgrad education. The big difference is that this is all after an employee has already been hired and identified as talent. Education is definitely an important part of talent retention and development.

However, I would say that the person who has the talent to make it to an upper level in a company to begin with likely has the talent to have their employer subsidize their education to begin with, undergrad and all. By the time one student graduates with an MBA and no work experience, another has spent years on the job, possibly an undergrad degree that's paid for by their employer and years of seniority, bonuses, stock options, etc. Yeah, it might take them a few more years to get their full undergrad and postgrad but in the end, they have the potential to be much better off financially than the alternative.

The way we measure human capital is drastically changing and it scares some folks who have invested a lot into the formal education system as students, parents, teachers, administrators.

The good news is, the burst of the education bubble won't result in the dark ages of human knowledge as most documented knowledge will be open and accessible. In addition, delivery through a variety of modalities will be more common as technology improves.

[LUDad]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-fertil ... 1547096460

Right now birth rate is about 16% below a sustainable birth rate. If this trend continues as my post war generation retires / dies, things could get very interesting...for better or for worse...very quickly.

[Class of 20Something]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-fertil ... 1547096460

Right now birth rate is about 16% below a sustainable birth rate. If this trend continues as my post war generation retires / dies, things could get very interesting...for better or for worse...very quickly.

Supply and demand works with people too. A shortage of people will force wages up and drive the automation boom.

[ballcoach15]

Join the military. Free training and good pay.

[Purple Haize]

Join the military. Free training and good pay.

In the past I would agree with you. But I recently had some eye opening experiences

[Yacht Rock]

What is likely going to happen is that kids will be provided with clear information on which path best suits them. While I would love to say it will happen because it needs to happen now, the reality is that when the higher education bubble bursts, educators (and parents, etc) will be put in a position where they have to stop trying to encourage everyone toward getting a degree.

At that point, everyone will have to make the most efficient use of the resources they have.

My hope is that a huge shakeup will occur that will disrupt the education system as we know it. There are many educators and administrators who know this is needed but the system is such a monolith that change is tough. Combine that with many stakeholders who don't understand that learning objectives change and/or should change to reflect the needs of the generation of students.

[4everfsu]

Kids now a day do not need to go to college. I would point my kids to apprenticeships. Some pay them even while in high school, pay for their associate degrees, etc. You will learn a good trade, make good money and be debt free after college.

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/ ... /89209844/

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/20 ... ddle-class

https://newsroom.vw.com/vehicles/passat ... with-jobs/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... story.html

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/201 ... nticeships

https://www.newamerica.org/education-po ... charlotte/

http://www.cms.k12.nc.us/News/Pages/It- ... ntice.aspx

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/ ... 98065.html

http://www.mecked.org/cms-student-appre ... ns-future/

[thepostman]

Join the military. Free training and good pay.

In the past I would agree with you. But I recently had some eye opening experiences

I'd love to hear of these eye opening experience.

I partly agree with ballcoach but I also don't think it is a fit for everybody and some people who join probably had no business joining the military.

There is a lot of other things I could talk about due to the experiences I have had the past 10 years, both good and bad, but I don't want to bore anybody.

[Yacht Rock]

I also don't think it is a fit for everybody.

I think this can also be said of college. Not everyone walks away from a degree program having more value as a member of the workforce than when they entered. Just like some folks will get a ton out of their military experience and it will enrich them and provide a ton of opportunity and others won't be able to capitalize on that opportunity as well.

I think that's the premise of what everyone will have to come to grips with. Everyone's path will be different. There will be a huge opportunity for the next generation of students to be able to identify clear paths to success that rely on many factors outside of formal education.

[Purple Haize]

Join the military. Free training and good pay.

In the past I would agree with you. But I recently had some eye opening experiences

I'd love to hear of these eye opening experience.

I partly agree with ballcoach but I also don't think it is a fit for everybody and some people who join probably had no business joining the military.

There is a lot of other things I could talk about due to the experiences I have had the past 10 years, both good and bad, but I don't want to bore anybody.

You went in post college. That has always been the best way to do it. But I’ve run into a couple of former Service Members who have changed my mind that it should be a default option out of Hs

[thepostman]

The military is a great option if people use the benefits given to them while they are in the service. If they don't, then it becomes increasingly difficult to have success when you get out. You would think it would be easy to convince an 18 year old to take classes with the free TA the Air Force offers but the majority of young Airmen do not utilize that benefit. There are another benefit where the Air Force will cover certifications depending on what your job is. Most don't take advantage of that either. Then they get out after 4 or 6 years and are somehow shocked that they can't get a halfway decent job.

Recruiters, especially Army recruiters but they all do it to an extent, sell kids on something that just doesn't really exist and then these young kids are shocked when the military is sometimes hard. With the how well connected the world is today there isn't really an excuse to be surprised by what military life is like but a lot of people are.

I could go on an on all day about this because it is a topic I care about. The military is a great option, but just like college, it isn't for everybody. Because a lot of young recruits are 17 or 18 you deal with the lack of maturity and they end up wasting their careers.

Anyways, I have allowed this to take us pretty far off topic

[Purple Haize]

The military is a great option if people use the benefits given doing them while they are in the service. If they don't, then it becomes increasingly difficult to have success when you get out. You would think it would be easy to convince an 18 year old to take classes with the free TA the Air Force offers but the majority of young Airmen do not utilize that benefit. There are another benefit where the Air Force will cover certifications depending on what your job is. Most don't take advantage of that either. Then they get out after 4 or 6 years and are somehow shocked that they can't get a halfway decent job.

Recruiters, especially Army recruiters but they all do it to an extent, sell kids on something that just doesn't really exist and then these young kids are shocked when the military is sometimes hard. With the how well connected the world is today there isn't really an excuse to be surprised by what military life is like but a lot of people are.

I could go on an on all day about this because it is a topic I care about. The military is a great option, but just like college, it isn't for everybody. Because a lot of young recruits are 17 or 18 you deal with the lack of maturity and they end up wasting their careers.

Anyways, I have allowed this to take us pretty far off topic

Yeah, we can have an adult soda and chat. These people were combat infantry folks and marines. So obviously a different culture than the Chai.....errr,...Air Force

[ballcoach15]

I wish I had taken advantage of all the college opportunities I had while in the Army. I completed some college courses, but I did just enough to "get high marks" on Self Improvement Block on Evaluation reports. If I had taken advantage of every opportunity I had, Cider Jim would be calling me Dr. Ball Coach.

[Kolzilla41]

I currently work for a company that works within higher ed. Small colleges (<2,000) are cutting costs left and right. Our new house probably has 6-8 within 2 hours that are 4 year degree schools with less than 2,000 kids on campus. The only one that is still in a good situation is due to online enrollment of about 30,000. I expect consolidation and closing over the next 5 years that'll probably take it down to 1 or 2 small universities. There is a bubble coming. The only question is how bad will it be?

[LUconn]

Kids now a day do not need to go to college. I would point my kids to apprenticeships. Some pay them even while in high school, pay for their associate degrees, etc. You will learn a good trade, make good money and be debt free after college.

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/ ... /89209844/

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/20 ... ddle-class

https://newsroom.vw.com/vehicles/passat ... with-jobs/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... story.html

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/201 ... nticeships

https://www.newamerica.org/education-po ... charlotte/

http://www.cms.k12.nc.us/News/Pages/It- ... ntice.aspx

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/ ... 98065.html

http://www.mecked.org/cms-student-appre ... ns-future/

This is a really popular thing to write a news story about, and makes sense on paper but it just doesn't work out as well in reality. Tradesmen are treated like disposable garbage and the pay ceiling is low. Im always reading about shortages but the market prices just don't reflect it. The articles like to cherry pick some outrageous salaries of welders, while neglecting to mention theyre being worked 80 hours a week on an oil rig with no chance for a personal life. Meanwhile if you check the local want ads for anything blue collar, you'll find them wanting 10+ years of experience, certifications, etc. for like $12/hr. I'm constantly wondering who they find to fill these rolls.

[alabama24]

Half of all schools closing in the next decade? #FakeNews

[RubberMallet]

Its a multifaceted problem for universities.

re: abortions. 75% of abortions are performed on women who make 2x the federal poverty level or less. This is a strong indication that abortion has almost 0 effect on the problems universities face.

The biggest problems universities face are social, technological, and financial. The latter bleeds into the other 2 quite a bit.

Socially our attitudes towards university is changing. Baby boomers viewed college for their children as a "life experience" and a obvious transition from high school to the work force. Many boomers did not experience college and industrious jobs right out of college and while making plenty of money put stock in the idea that college is just what you do because its what you needed to experience.

In turn colleges starting this "arms" race from a facility standpoint. building these crazy campuses with all sorts of state of the art BS that just drove the costs of attending through the roof. Nobody really paid attention to this creep and now millions of genx/geny 'ers have massive amounts of debt they are still paying on with no end in sight and do not want this for their children.

There are still plenty who view it as a "life experience" but many are coming to the conclusion that burdening your child with a quarter million dollars in debt right out of the gate just so they could experience college and all the frivolities that comes with it so they could get a philosophy degree is completely absurd.

Obviously we still have great universities that people who want to be doctors or lawyers or whatever should still attend. But 300k for a gender studies degree? many are done falling for it.

The debt numbers have allowed for the proliferation of alternative education options. Many have existed for ever by way of community college, trade schools,etc. But now there are new ways. which lead me to :

Technologically, we are coming to a place where you don't have to go ANYWHERE to learn whatever you need to learn to put your self into a job. The internet has made paying room and board is silly to an extent. We are seeing it with legitimate universities strengthening their online presence and it will only grow from there.

Financially, as i mentioned, these universities have built programs to meet a temporary need. There are specialty degrees that are virtually worthless today when it comes to earning a wage that can even remotely prepare you to pay back what you owe to get that degree.

You go to these campuses and they are country club facilities with state of the art gyms, restaurants/cafeterias, townhome dormitories, etc etc. Its insane. And cost lots of money.

Nevermind that as it stands there are tons of industries that require 0 college that have negative unemployment. Meaning you can get a position where you are trained on the job, earning a living and can be making 50-65k a year within a few years. compare that to an accounting degree that cost you 200k to get and will take you YEARS to become that high level CPA that can bust into a 6 figure salary. I'm not talking about mechanics/welding/etc but those do exist in some places (here we have john deere and arconic who both pay well for those types of positions) union halls are also looking for tons of places.

But IT Security is a huge field and they take a ton of 2 year degree guys, and even kids out of HS lookign for work in those fields. They are so desperate for good kids, they shop off potential and will even pay for school.

As i said, its a bunch of different factors, but I can hardly pin this one on abortion as awful as it is.

[Class of 20Something]

Holy Wall of Text Batman. Can you write my DBs for me?

Seriously, I appreciate these kinds of thought out and reasoned posts. I wish these were more the standard than the exception.

[lynchburgwildcats]

Nevermind that as it stands there are tons of industries that require 0 college that have negative unemployment. Meaning you can get a position where you are trained on the job, earning a living and can be making 50-65k a year within a few years.

What are some of these industries?

[Yacht Rock]

Nevermind that as it stands there are tons of industries that require 0 college that have negative unemployment. Meaning you can get a position where you are trained on the job, earning a living and can be making 50-65k a year within a few years.

What are some of these industries?

This is just my experience, but I know I've seen this pretty often in the hospitality and technology industry.

[RubberMallet]

IT. Especially security. (seriously, i've seen guys get 50+k network managing positions just based off of knowing networking nomenclature...DNS DHCP SMTP etc)
construction (plumbing, electricians, hvac),even management.
Anything airport related (air traffic, pilots)
Police, Fire, EMT
real estate
Chemical plants
Oil fields

Obviously location has a bit to do with it. And man do require pre job training and or on job training that could cost money (getting a pilots license) but not compared to a college investment

[RubberMallet]

a coworker of mine who is for a lack of a better term my work wife, is about 5 years older than me and his 17 yr old son is set to graduate hs this year and wants to be a real estate agent. But he was looking at colleges and super hyperfocused on getting good grades to get into school. I introduced his father to our real estate agent who has sold both of our homes. She put him in touch with an older agent who is looking to kind of train up someone to eventually take over his clientele. The kid was offered a job. he has the potential (obviously commission based) to start earning 30-50k right away depending upon how good he does doing various jobs for the guy. The idea seems eventually stepping into his own firm or taking over this gentlemen's firm.

This is what he's wanted to do the past 4 years. And now he's getting an opportunity to do it and having 0 debt. But the allure of college is still there for both he and his parents. They are still working through what they are going to do.

All i said, if there is a real estate position that requires a 4 year degree do it. But this seems to be an opportunity that makes complete sense.

[Yacht Rock]

It will be interesting to see the impact the possible casino in Danville has. Casinos can typically pay well and it's not difficult to move up through the ranks with a good head on your shoulders and a strong work ethic. I know people who've barely finished high school who work in that industry and easily make 60K a year, if not more.