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By adam42381
Registration Days Posts
#559257
TH Spangler wrote:
Yacht Rock wrote:I don’t know. Who cares.
Here's a hint :lol:

Image
Here’s another hint: it’s not her. These stupid conspiracies aren’t helping.
By LUDad
Posts
#559260
Any reasonal person not having an agenda (independent) would know that if an accusation such as this had legs the Dems would have pounded this early and hard. The mere fact that it was used as an ambush tells the whole story.
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By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#559262
I don't have any doubts that this was being used for political gain. There may be a small shred of truth in what is being said but we will never know.

With that said Kavanaugh's interview on fox news was terrible for him. He is obviously lying about his drinking habits while in college and when a guy can't even tell the truth about that it now brings us just enough reasonable doubt to convince people he is capable of lying about sexual assault.

The tactics by the Democrats is embarrassing but the reaction by Republicans is just as embarrassing.

What an embarrassment our political processes have become.
By LUDad
Posts
#559264
What would be intriging to me would be a believer whose past was worldly but whose conversion was totally transforming. I realize that even though you are saved you can still suffer the consequences of past sin. But can you even imagine how something like that could playout, the discussions/arguements that would occur.
By flamehunter
Registration Days Posts
#559266
LUDad wrote:What would be intriging to me would be a believer whose past was worldly but whose conversion was totally transforming. I realize that even though you are saved you can still suffer the consequences of past sin. But can you even imagine how something like that could playout, the discussions/arguements that would occur.
To the world a spiritual transformation would not even be considered viable because they haven't experienced it and would believe it only to be a ploy used to excuse past transgressions.
By Yacht Rock
Registration Days Posts
#559267
flamehunter wrote:
LUDad wrote:What would be intriging to me would be a believer whose past was worldly but whose conversion was totally transforming. I realize that even though you are saved you can still suffer the consequences of past sin. But can you even imagine how something like that could playout, the discussions/arguements that would occur.
To the world a spiritual transformation would not even be considered viable because they haven't experienced it and would believe it only to be a ploy used to excuse past transgressions.
You're right to a degree. I think a bigger determining factor is if an individual is trying to escape consequence because, "I've changed." I think society is more forgiving if someone is willing to deal with the consequences of their actions, even if they are a changed person.
By LUDad
Posts
#559268
Yacht Rock wrote:
flamehunter wrote:
LUDad wrote:What would be intriging to me would be a believer whose past was worldly but whose conversion was totally transforming. I realize that even though you are saved you can still suffer the consequences of past sin. But can you even imagine how something like that could playout, the discussions/arguements that would occur.
To the world a spiritual transformation would not even be considered viable because they haven't experienced it and would believe it only to be a ploy used to excuse past transgressions.
You're right to a degree. I think a bigger determining factor is if an individual is trying to escape consequence because, "I've changed." I think society is more forgiving if someone is willing to deal with the consequences of their actions, even if they are a changed person.
YR, I agree. I am thinking of someone who does not excuse their past transgressions but agrees with the offensive nature of them. An example could be someone who impregnated women and encouraged/paid for abortions but is now visibly pro-life and willing to speak openly of the destruction and trauma he caused but also points to the redemption available to those who believe.
By Yacht Rock
Registration Days Posts
#559269
LUDad wrote:
YR, I agree. I am thinking of someone who does not excuse their past transgressions but agrees with the offensive nature of them. An example could be someone who impregnated women and encouraged/paid for abortions but is now visibly pro-life and willing to speak openly of the destruction and trauma he caused but also points to the redemption available to those who believe.
I think it happens and there are examples of it. I think it requires a few things.

1. Admittance of guilt and demonstration of remorse.
2. Either acceptance of consequences as a result of the current known action or voluntary penance.
3. Demonstration of change and commitment to continued change.

The big question is, what is motivating someone to apologize? Oftentimes, the only reason people are sorry about something is because they were caught.

It looks like Mel Gibson is going to be directing a Wild Bunch remake.

https://deadline.com/2018/09/mel-gibson ... 202470272/

The other issue is that people on both sides of the political spectrum are often only critical of an individual and their past when it suits their needs. There's a huge lack of consistency on both sides in treatment of an individual's past or what the consequences should be for past behavior, etc.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#559272
This newest allegation seems the most legit in terms of the woman having stakes in the game as well. With a sworn statement, she risks purjury if it’s proven she’s lying. That would also strip her of security clearance she has for her job.

As for the actual allegations, I’m trying to determine what she’s saying he actually did. Is she implying he was part of the gang rape or that he was just grinding on girls at a college party?
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#559274
Jonathan Carone wrote:This newest allegation seems the most legit in terms of the woman having stakes in the game as well. With a sworn statement, she risks purjury if it’s proven she’s lying. That would also strip her of security clearance she has for her job.

As for the actual allegations, I’m trying to determine what she’s saying he actually did. Is she implying he was part of the gang rape or that he was just grinding on girls at a college party?
You can’t be serious. This is neck and neck with the Ramirez allegation. It has 0 credibility. You touch on it in your second paragraph. What is she alleging they did? What was a college girl doing at High School parties. Why was she at 10 parties where rapes were taking place that she had knowledge of? Why didn’t she report the crimes at the time? What clearances at the US Mint and IRS is she really putting in danger? Proving perjury in this instance will be difficult because she doesn’t list the dates of any of the multiple rape parties she attended. Plus, “inappropriate” is a vague term. How does she know, if there even was a party, that there was no consent? This is absolutely ludicrous. The only thing that seems remotely credible is her statement that she was gang raped in 82 when she was inebriated. But even then she doesn’t claim Kavanaugh was involved.
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By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#559276
People didnt talk about it because it was dismissed as boys being boys. Who knows what the truth is anymore. I'm kind of sickened by it all.

As far as clearances go there are tons of people within the IRS and US Mint with different clearance levels.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#559279
Purple Haize wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote:This newest allegation seems the most legit in terms of the woman having stakes in the game as well. With a sworn statement, she risks purjury if it’s proven she’s lying. That would also strip her of security clearance she has for her job.

As for the actual allegations, I’m trying to determine what she’s saying he actually did. Is she implying he was part of the gang rape or that he was just grinding on girls at a college party?
You can’t be serious. This is neck and neck with the Ramirez allegation. It has 0 credibility. You touch on it in your second paragraph. What is she alleging they did? What was a college girl doing at High School parties. Why was she at 10 parties where rapes were taking place that she had knowledge of? Why didn’t she report the crimes at the time? What clearances at the US Mint and IRS is she really putting in danger? Proving perjury in this instance will be difficult because she doesn’t list the dates of any of the multiple rape parties she attended. Plus, “inappropriate” is a vague term. How does she know, if there even was a party, that there was no consent? This is absolutely ludicrous. The only thing that seems remotely credible is her statement that she was gang raped in 82 when she was inebriated. But even then she doesn’t claim Kavanaugh was involved.
You didn't even take time to comprehend what I was saying in that first paragraph before you jumped into writing everything off. I said what was legit about this claim is that she's not just making something up at no risk to herself. She actually has stakes in the game because of her job and her clearance. They may be hard to prove, but if's more than someone just making something up with no repercussions if she's proven to be wrong.

If someone is going to make allegations like this 30+ years later, they should also be held accountable for telling the truth.

At this point, it's next to impossible to prove anything happened. I'm pretty convinced Kavanaugh did some did some things he shouldn't have when he was younger. When you mix the time period, his age, the setting of the schools he attended, and alcohol, there's enough circumstantial stuff for me to believe something happened. I don't know the extent of those somethings though. What I do know is college aged sexual assault has been weaponized and most men running for public office will be accused of it from the other side moving forward.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#559280
Jonathan Carone wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote:This newest allegation seems the most legit in terms of the woman having stakes in the game as well. With a sworn statement, she risks purjury if it’s proven she’s lying. That would also strip her of security clearance she has for her job.

As for the actual allegations, I’m trying to determine what she’s saying he actually did. Is she implying he was part of the gang rape or that he was just grinding on girls at a college party?
You can’t be serious. This is neck and neck with the Ramirez allegation. It has 0 credibility. You touch on it in your second paragraph. What is she alleging they did? What was a college girl doing at High School parties. Why was she at 10 parties where rapes were taking place that she had knowledge of? Why didn’t she report the crimes at the time? What clearances at the US Mint and IRS is she really putting in danger? Proving perjury in this instance will be difficult because she doesn’t list the dates of any of the multiple rape parties she attended. Plus, “inappropriate” is a vague term. How does she know, if there even was a party, that there was no consent? This is absolutely ludicrous. The only thing that seems remotely credible is her statement that she was gang raped in 82 when she was inebriated. But even then she doesn’t claim Kavanaugh was involved.
You didn't even take time to comprehend what I was saying in that first paragraph before you jumped into writing everything off. I said what was legit about this claim is that she's not just making something up at no risk to herself. She actually has stakes in the game because of her job and her clearance. They may be hard to prove, but if's more than someone just making something up with no repercussions if she's proven to be wrong.

If someone is going to make allegations like this 30+ years later, they should also be held accountable for telling the truth.

At this point, it's next to impossible to prove anything happened. I'm pretty convinced Kavanaugh did some did some things he shouldn't have when he was younger. When you mix the time period, his age, the setting of the schools he attended, and alcohol, there's enough circumstantial stuff for me to believe something happened. I don't know the extent of those somethings though. What I do know is college aged sexual assault has been weaponized and most men running for public office will be accused of it from the other side moving forward.
I read your whole thing several times waiting for the punch line. Even asked what she was actually risking. Avenatti is most likely paying her or arranging payment. She is not really risking anything at all. It makes her claim more ballsy then the other two that’s for sure. Certainly not more legitimate
I think Kavanaugh just went to parties and was a typical teenager at the time. Probably more on the nerdy side. Apparently this Judge kid was the groups Eddie Haskell.
By Yacht Rock
Registration Days Posts
#559281
It’s funny when people bring up the, “If you didn’t say something at the time, it must not have happened” argument.

I’m curious what statistics you’re using regarding reported/unreported abuse to make those kinds of conclusions.

Hint: A lot of abuse goes unreported for years and there are a lot of valid reasons as to why people don’t want to report. A lot of those reasons are clear on this thread.
By Yacht Rock
Registration Days Posts
#559283
Jonathan Carone wrote:The #whyididntreport hashtag was pretty eye opening on that front.
The crazy thing is that it shouldn't have to be a hashtag. I feel like I've known for as long as I could remember that most of this stuff goes unreported and every statistical analysis I've looked at shows this. I've heard so, so, so, so many stories from adults who've had horrendous things happen to them who all chose not to report.

Should people report these things? Yes.

Does the lack of reporting make them less believable? No. Statistics show that a majority of sexual assaults go unreported.

Now, of course, there are real consequences of not reporting something in a timely manner. It means that any physical evidence could deteriorate and memories will fade, resulting in confusing or conflicting accounts that could either prove/disprove something. It also means that if someone is truly a perpetrator of sexual violence, they can continue that behavior with others. These are all important things of course. The key thing is though, the reporting/not reporting act itself doesn't prove/disprove anything.
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By alabama24
Registration Days Posts
#559286
Yacht Rock wrote: I've heard so, so, so, so many stories from adults who've had horrendous things happen to them who all chose not to report.

Should people report these things? Yes.

Does the lack of reporting make them less believable? No.
I have known women who did not report things of this nature. Although it is hard for me (my male brain) to comprehend, I can understand the embarrassment about it... just look at the vilification happening now. I also know men who were demonstratively proven to be falsely accused.

I don't know what to think of the original claim (Ford). BK seemed believable to me in his own defense. I don't believe Ford's claim is simply political... but I do believe the way it was handled by Dianne Feinstein was completely political. This should have been handled behind the scenes well more than a month ago. If found to have been credible, Ford would have had to make a decision to come public or not.
By Yacht Rock
Registration Days Posts
#559288
alabama24 wrote:

I have known women who did not report things of this nature. Although it is hard for me (my male brain) to comprehend, I can understand the embarrassment about it... just look at the vilification happening now. I also know men who were demonstratively proven to be falsely accused.
Yeah, you're right. I'll say this. I know more men and women who've been victims of actual sexual assault (not even counting workplace harassment) and didn't report it, than I do people who've had things happen and then reported it to the authorities. My anecdotal experience, combined with the statistics, guides me to believe that the "report/not report" doesn't really impact credibility. I've seen false claims of various kinds come forward over the years as well, but in my experience, those have always been far more rare.
alabama24 wrote: I don't know what to think of the original claim (Ford). BK seemed believable to me in his own defense. I don't believe Ford's claim is simply political... but I do believe the way it was handled by Dianne Feinstein was completely political. This should have been handled behind the scenes well more than a month ago. If found to have been credible, Ford would have had to make a decision to come public or not.
Oh yeah, I don't think Feinstein cares about the possibility of assault, only in how this information can be used in these proceedings. I'd be careful though to judge the veracity of the situation based on Feinstein's mishandling of the information. There are some scenarios where I could see Ford possibly saying, "I don't want to go through with this and to only use the information as a last resort, etc." Who knows. These types of cases don't exist in a vacuum and I think a victim has a choice as to how their information is used, etc. I have no idea what happened. At this point, it's really a "he said/she said" situation and I don't know either party from a character standpoint, so I think it's fair to say they both she be heard on what they have to say, and then let things settle however they do.

I think the best approach is, "I don't know" and we'll never know if we don't listen. More people need to listen right now, before they make their judgements.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#559291
alabama24 wrote:
Yacht Rock wrote: I've heard so, so, so, so many stories from adults who've had horrendous things happen to them who all chose not to report.

Should people report these things? Yes.

Does the lack of reporting make them less believable? No.
I have known women who did not report things of this nature. Although it is hard for me (my male brain) to comprehend, I can understand the embarrassment about it... just look at the vilification happening now. I also know men who were demonstratively proven to be falsely accused.

I don't know what to think of the original claim (Ford). BK seemed believable to me in his own defense. I don't believe Ford's claim is simply political... but I do believe the way it was handled by Dianne Feinstein was completely political. This should have been handled behind the scenes well more than a month ago. If found to have been credible, Ford would have had to make a decision to come public or not.
I’m not in the camp that feels if it wasn’t reported it didn’t happen. I’ve never said that. But if someone says they were gang raped and then that they witnessed rapes but still kept going to parties where they witnessed rapes and sexual assaults their credibility in a situation like this is going to be very low
I do not believe Dr Ford at all when it comes to Kavanaugh. Her witnesses at the gathering all say such a gathering never took place. Even her best friend, who oddly does say she believes Dr Ford.
Ramirez claim is just silly.
All of these women make it harder and harder for people genuinely abused to come forward. Because of their fabrications. Because the media latches on to them and then discards them. Working with kids it makes me ill knowing that if something happens instances like these 3 clowns will make it harder for legitimate victims to come forward
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