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#549512
After I asked if I could post all that, I got this follow up text. He wanted me to make sure to convey he had no issues with the education itself:
I will say that other than this, which is a frustrating ongoing issue, that I've had no problems with the design or education of the program. Professors were helpful when asked, responded in a reasonable amount of time, and in group assignments I never had any issues with other students. The educational process seems to work effectively as designed. I'd argue that in some classes, because I wasn't in front of a lecture, I was forced to use the text more and probably gleaned more information from the course because I ended up rereading text 2, 3, 4 times to find answers or prepare for tests.

My issue is with the predatory nature of the operation when you are outside of the class environment. Unlike a lot of LUO students, I have a track record and transcript with the residential university that shows a record of academic accountability as well as academic achievement. They know it. They have it on file. But it doesn't matter. And that's the frustrating part.

It's not a criticism of the education at all. I'd be happy to hang another LU degree. My wife and I defend our degrees every chance we get because we feel very prepared for our work life based on our time on campus, but this is a "business" thing and that's the issue.
#549517
I think your example raises some good points.

A lot of folks will have different perspectives on distance education based on their own experiences.

I've worked on the outskirts of higher education, helping develop and teach courses for the University of Nevada Reno but most of my experience is in technology and remote organizations and teams.

LUO doesn't seem to take advantage of what's available to engage the various learning styles of their student body remotely.
#549526
I will say LUO seems stuck in a rut where it concerns technology.

Jon, I feel terrible for your example. But he even admits some issues could be solved had he withdrawn properly. Furthermore, some schools would simply throw him away, but LUO gave him a way through writing sssesssments to verify he was up to the task of postgrad work. His GPA kicked him to this. To me, that speaks to an institutions rigor and exclusivity - hallmarks of Elroy’s higher ed - than just a money-making machine that grants degrees of low value, like the original article suggests.
#549528
JK37 wrote:I will say LUO seems stuck in a rut where it concerns technology.

Jon, I feel terrible for your example. But he even admits some issues could be solved had he withdrawn properly. Furthermore, some schools would simply throw him away, but LUO gave him a way through writing sssesssments to verify he was up to the task of postgrad work. His GPA kicked him to this. To me, that speaks to an institutions rigor and exclusivity - hallmarks of Elroy’s higher ed - than just a money-making machine that grants degrees of low value, like the original article suggests.
I was about to write something similar. In this case LUO is guilty of bureaucratic inefficiency and nonsense, not of taking $$$ at any and every opportuniy.
#549531
flamehunter wrote:I was about to write something similar. In this case LUO is guilty of bureaucratic inefficiency and nonsense, not of taking $$$ at any and every opportuniy.
I see it differently. I see it being bureaucratic inefficiency and nonsense because of taking money at any and every opportunity.
#549539
The key for any student, whether On Line or Residential, is to get the Degree to hang on wall.

I had a chance to get a Degree many years ago from City College of Chicago or City College of NY.(can't remember which). It was a special military program via correspondence courses. I can't recall details, but it was easy way to get degree. If I knew then what I know now, people would refer to me as "Dr. Ballcoach".
#549552
ballcoach15 wrote:The key for any student, whether On Line or Residential, is to get the Degree to hang on wall.

I had a chance to get a Degree many years ago from City College of Chicago or City College of NY.(can't remember which). It was a special military program via correspondence courses. I can't recall details, but it was easy way to get degree. If I knew then what I know now, people would refer to me as "Dr. Ballcoach".
Dr. Falwell (and many other pastors who use honorary titles) didn’t even have to do any correspondence!
#549559
adam42381 wrote:
ballcoach15 wrote:The key for any student, whether On Line or Residential, is to get the Degree to hang on wall.

I had a chance to get a Degree many years ago from City College of Chicago or City College of NY.(can't remember which). It was a special military program via correspondence courses. I can't recall details, but it was easy way to get degree. If I knew then what I know now, people would refer to me as "Dr. Ballcoach".
Dr. Falwell (and many other pastors who use honorary titles) didn’t even have to do any correspondence!
Try to get a job with one of those. Admittedly, most who have them are pretty well set. They are simply a form of recognition for life achievement.

Specifically concerning Doc, anyone who thinks he wasn't smart enough to get an "earned" doctorate, doesn't know much about him. If having the title had mattered to him, the time and work required would have been relatively little compared to the years of tireless service he put in to get to the place where he was honored with one.
#549561
olldflame wrote:
adam42381 wrote:
ballcoach15 wrote:The key for any student, whether On Line or Residential, is to get the Degree to hang on wall.

I had a chance to get a Degree many years ago from City College of Chicago or City College of NY.(can't remember which). It was a special military program via correspondence courses. I can't recall details, but it was easy way to get degree. If I knew then what I know now, people would refer to me as "Dr. Ballcoach".
Dr. Falwell (and many other pastors who use honorary titles) didn’t even have to do any correspondence!
Try to get a job with one of those. Admittedly, most who have them are pretty well set. They are simply a form of recognition for life achievement.
It’s a big pet peeve of mine. Using an honorary title as an actual title is a joke. My childhood pastor, who quit school after 8th grade, was promoted all over the country as Dr. Bobby Roberson.
#549565
Doc ultimately had several honorary doctorates, but I can assure you, he did not lobby or ask for any of them, including the first, which was from Tennessee Temple, founded by his good friend Lee Robertson. Once it was bestowed upon him, what should he have done? Refuse to accept it? Go to the ceremony and accept the honor, but then refuse to go by the title? You could argue that would be an insult to the school that honored him. He often talked about how humbled he was to be the head of a university with so many professors who had "real" doctorates and he NEVER said anything to mislead people into thinking his title was anything but honorary.
#549566
To me, the honorary doctorate usually represents work done that substitutes for traditional doctorates. So I have zero issue with using the title. It’s still been earned, just in a different way.

I know of folks who have substituted work experience for credit, and earned a Master’s by taking Just 1-2 classes to finish. Same thing. I have no problem with it.
#549568
Best introduction I ever heard was at a Pastor's conference in Washington that Dr. Falwell got President Reagan to speak at. They played Hail to The Chief, and PA announcer then said: "The President of the United States and Dr. Jerry Falwell."
#549570
JK37 wrote:To me, the honorary doctorate usually represents work done that substitutes for traditional doctorates. So I have zero issue with using the title. It’s still been earned, just in a different way.

I know of folks who have substituted work experience for credit, and earned a Master’s by taking Just 1-2 classes to finish. Same thing. I have no problem with it.
Yeah, I’m kinda in that Camp.
Now, you wanna see a pizzing contest put a PhD, EdD, MD and DO in a room and ask which one is a ‘real’ Doctor. THEN a few minutes later, toss in a DDS and DC.
#549575
Purple Haize wrote:
JK37 wrote:To me, the honorary doctorate usually represents work done that substitutes for traditional doctorates. So I have zero issue with using the title. It’s still been earned, just in a different way.

I know of folks who have substituted work experience for credit, and earned a Master’s by taking Just 1-2 classes to finish. Same thing. I have no problem with it.
Yeah, I’m kinda in that Camp.
Now, you wanna see a pizzing contest put a PhD, EdD, MD and DO in a room and ask which one is a ‘real’ Doctor. THEN a few minutes later, toss in a DDS and DC.
Throw in a JD that's 24 years old because you don't need a master's first.
#549598
Keep in mind that times have changed in higher education. My grandfather received his first from BJU sitting next a rather notorious governor from Alabama. To the day he died a year and a half ago, he refused to acknowledge that degree. He received similar honorary degrees from a number of Christian institutions and used the D.D. in his published works. He called himself Bob and in his latter years used to call our co-founder Elmer. He told me a few years ago that he appreciated the respect folks were showing him by calling him Doctor. But he never crowed about it. Now his books have been used as textbooks to this day in seminaries. So his scholarly efforts are unquestioned. Today, thereis an expectation of grad school that simply did not exist up through the Mid-20th Century.
#549646
He definitely demonstrated more self control in his response and didn’t result to insulting folks.

I do take umbrage with the fact that he says that because they have a high number of “customers” that those “customers” must be happy with the product.

I can speak for myself and have heard from many other LUO students who aren’t happy with the product. Sadly by the time you realize that you aren’t happy with the product, it may not be worth the trouble of going a different direction with your (or the government’s) $$$.
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