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#535211
Yacht Rock wrote:
cruzan_flame13 wrote:I was discussing about why the modern day rules doesnt need to change, so your question has been irrelevant.
'Modern Day? Yeah. That video is appropriate
#535234
cruzan_flame13 wrote:I was discussing about why the modern day rules doesnt need to change, so your question has been irrelevant.
You seemed to be endorsing child abuse. Please clarify your position.
#535236
adam42381 wrote:
cruzan_flame13 wrote:I was discussing about why the modern day rules doesnt need to change, so your question has been irrelevant.
You seemed to be endorsing child abuse. Please clarify your position.
You beat me to it.
#535238
alabama24 wrote:
adam42381 wrote:
cruzan_flame13 wrote:I was discussing about why the modern day rules doesnt need to change, so your question has been irrelevant.
You seemed to be endorsing child abuse. Please clarify your position.
You beat me to it.
#toosoon
#535239
alabama24 wrote:
adam42381 wrote:
cruzan_flame13 wrote:I was discussing about why the modern day rules doesnt need to change, so your question has been irrelevant.
You seemed to be endorsing child abuse. Please clarify your position.
You beat me to it.
Violence isn't the answer
#535244
adam42381 wrote:
cruzan_flame13 wrote:I was discussing about why the modern day rules doesnt need to change, so your question has been irrelevant.
You seemed to be endorsing child abuse. Please clarify your position.
Endorsing child abuse by stating Lu's rules that they have now is not so bad? It's not perfect, but how is it abusive?
#535245
cruzan_flame13 wrote:With some discipline that has be characterized as abuse(although those are not, like beating[not severely] your child when they have done something wrong), so most kids are not discipline.
These are your words. Explain.
#535246
Yacht Rock wrote:I'm guessing he realizes that he sounds like a crazy person and can't justify his statements.
So....normal
#535247
Yacht Rock wrote:
cruzan_flame13 wrote:With some discipline that has be characterized as abuse(although those are not, like beating[not severely] your child when they have done something wrong), so most kids are not discipline.
These are your words. Explain.
he got hacked. Obviously.
#535256
thepostman wrote:
Yacht Rock wrote:
cruzan_flame13 wrote:With some discipline that has be characterized as abuse(although those are not, like beating[not severely] your child when they have done something wrong), so most kids are not discipline.
These are your words. Explain.
he got WHACKED. Obviously.
FIFY
#535273
whoa this is an entertaining thread. Big deal, so we all signed a paper saying that we would follow the liberty way. I also check the box that said i read the terms and conditions of my last Itunes update. I broke rules, I went to off campus parties. I did stupid stuff. I learned from it and it made me a better person. I got out of the on campus "liberty bubble" and got away from curfew after my sophomore year. its funny that some people saw commuters or those who lived off campus as the "bad kids" lol as far as the rules are concerned to make it better, just do away with curfew, and allow those who are of legal age to make their own choices about drinking. A beer with friends over wings and a football game is fun.
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#535278
I think the point is, no one has an excuse to be ignorant of the rules. So if you accept them upon admission, you've got no right to complain during or after enrollment. You can also choose not to attend, or choose to leave after arrival.

I didn't love every rule, and I quietly broke my share. But if I'd been caught I wouldn't have argued. I would've just thought, "That's my fault for getting caught."

The more relaxed the Liberty Way, the less distinctive the University. From a strictly business or marketing perspective - which is where I think this conversation began - one cannot give up what makes one unique. Just as some have the right to choose not to attend Liberty, Liberty University has the right and arguably the obligation to its heritage to stand for something and in so doing to say there may be some who aren't fit to attend.
#535280
JK37 wrote:The more relaxed the Liberty Way, the less distinctive the University. From a strictly business or marketing perspective - which is where I think this conversation began - one cannot give up what makes one unique.
Do we want to be unique because of our rules or because of our curriculum of required worldview, Bible, and theology classes?

I'd rather open up the rules a little to get more students trained in becoming a champion for Christ than have rules based on behavior modification and those potential students not even give us a second look.
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#535282
I've never considered the rules mentioned here as "behavior modification."

Curfew: why am I out after midnight?

Alcohol: why do I need it?

Coed dorms: please.

Dress code: the most life-preparatory prerogatives the school still thankfully offers

Hair: fits close to dress code, IMO

Many have said LU needs a stronger focus on training champions for Christ. Isn't "training" just another term for behavior modification?

Distinctives of curriculum, theology and the Liberty Way are not mutually exclusive.
#535289
JK37 wrote:I've never considered the rules mentioned here as "behavior modification."

Curfew: why am I out after midnight?

Alcohol: why do I need it?

Coed dorms: please.

Dress code: the most life-preparatory prerogatives the school still thankfully offers

Hair: fits close to dress code, IMO

Many have said LU needs a stronger focus on training champions for Christ. Isn't "training" just another term for behavior modification?

Distinctives of curriculum, theology and the Liberty Way are not mutually exclusive.
Curfew: As a grown up I've found a lot of legitimate reasons for being out after midnight.

Alcohol: I understand that some denominations view all use as a sin, but this isn't universal. You can allow those who legally can use it, to use it. Sure, allow for theological debate but don't pretend that all use is irresponsible. If kids make a mistake, force them to go through counseling, etc.

Coed dorms: I agree, not needed.

Dress code: The workforce has been adjusting it's expectations of the dress code and Liberty is following. From what I understand from my friends that teach there, there isn't much of a dress code left now and most of them are thankful for it. You can teach business professionalism without requiring students to show up to class every day like that.

Hair: See above. Listen, I don't care for the man bun, but to be honest, that's just a personal preference, not a matter of business professionalism or sin, etc.

In regards to training champions for Christ, I think that you can educate people on how to represent Jesus to the world outside of micromanaging their behavior. I do think that training champions for Christ is different than saying a beard isn't okay at school. I don't recall in the Bible where it said being out after midnight was not Christlike behavior.
#535290
I'll add this. I didn't attend Liberty as a resident so thankfully, I never had to deal with these rules. But some elements of the Liberty Way are more strict than I would treat my own children, and we're pretty strict on some things.
#535291
JK37 wrote:I've never considered the rules mentioned here as "behavior modification."

Curfew: why am I out after midnight?

Alcohol: why do I need it?

Coed dorms: please.

Dress code: the most life-preparatory prerogatives the school still thankfully offers

Hair: fits close to dress code, IMO

Many have said LU needs a stronger focus on training champions for Christ. Isn't "training" just another term for behavior modification?

Distinctives of curriculum, theology and the Liberty Way are not mutually exclusive.
Jonathan Carone wrote:There's a difference in behavior management and setting up guardrails to protect students.

Curfew and keeping opposite sexes out of the dorms are guardrails. They are their for the benefit of the student even if they don't realize it at the time.

No alcohol for 21+ (and faculty), dress code, and cleanliness inspections are all behavior modifications. They distract from the overall mission of the school and keep potentially great students away.

I'm all for guardrails and structure. I'm not at all in favor of behavior modification.
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#535295
JK37 wrote:I've never considered the rules mentioned here as "behavior modification."

Curfew: why am I out after midnight?

Alcohol: why do I need it?

Coed dorms: please.

Dress code: the most life-preparatory prerogatives the school still thankfully offers

Hair: fits close to dress code, IMO

Many have said LU needs a stronger focus on training champions for Christ. Isn't "training" just another term for behavior modification?

Distinctives of curriculum, theology and the Liberty Way are not mutually exclusive.
In regards to the dress code, when I worked for the state I could wear shorts and flip flops. Today I am working from home, where there is obviously no dress code.
#535297
It was definitely more strict that my parents treated me. My parents introduce alcohol to me in high school. Taught me how it can make compliment food and how to enjoy it without overindulgence. I honestly just want to have a craft beer or two tailgating before a game. I still love pouring a cold one into a pint glass with the screamin eagle logo etched on the side during the road games.
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#535374
The overwhelming majority of crimes on college campuses where alcohol is permitted, involve alcohol. Underage drinking, physical assault, sexual assault...people still find ways to consume alcohol at Liberty, I understand that. But I believe due to the reasons mentioned there is a place in the higher ed market for a university that takes a strict stand against consumption. Here's the thing though: I think the day is coming soon when LU will no longer hold this line. Just a gut feeling. And I will be one of those - apparently the minority - who is disappointed in that.

As an adult since my college days, I too have found many reasons to be out past curfew. As a student, such times were only those when returning after midnight when traveling from competition with a Liberty athletics team. There are reasonable exceptions made. Outside of these, students don't need to be about after midnight. So the rule isn't a big deal.

The summary argument here seems to be that Liberty, via the Liberty Way, makes too big a deal about some things. But a young man or woman who allows the presence of rules such as a dress code, hair code, curfew and cleanliness checks to affect their college decision is themselves make a big deal out of small things. And Liberty isn't hurting for resident students. So what's the motivation for change? It won't be financial anytime soon.

So there would have to be a moral reason to change the rules, and I haven't heard one yet. I'm all ears.
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