A Sea Of Red

50 People. The next time you are in a crowd count 50 people. It's a big number. Thankfully 30 were able to be saved.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/12/fl ... tclub.html

Just insanity

I'm at the point where I don't know where we go from here to stop these things.

Jonathan Carone wrote:I'm at the point where I don't know where we go from here to stop these things.

There has always been evil. There will always be evil Men. You cannot stop them all. Only remain vigilant to stop those you can and mourn the lose of those you cannot. I morn for the families of those lost and rejoice with the families of those who were rescued

Jonathan Carone wrote:I don't know where we go from here to stop these things.

Just horrible. Very broken world we live in. Many prayers for all the victims.

Purple Haize wrote:

Jonathan Carone wrote:I'm at the point where I don't know where we go from here to stop these things.

There has always been evil. There will always be evil Men. You cannot stop them all. Only remain vigilant to stop those you can and mourn the lose of those you cannot. I morn for the families of those lost and rejoice with the families of those who were rescued

QFT. We can put every possible gun control measure in place and those who desire to do harm will find a way to get them and do harm. That is what people on both sides, but especially the pro-gun control side, fail to realize.

All you can do is help contain mass violence. If people have enough hate in their heart to go on a murder spree like this there is no stopping them unless you get lucky and the guy leaves a trail of evidence of his plan and you can get to him before he pulls it off.

lynchburgwildcats wrote:All you can do is help contain mass violence. If people have enough hate in their heart to go on a murder spree like this there is no stopping them unless you get lucky and the guy leaves a trail of evidence of his plan and you can get to him before he pulls it off.

Or we can stop playing politics with our immigration system and only bring in people that have past numerous health, education/skills, historical and character background tests. Oh, also, maybe we shouldn't be so quick to import people from countries where 99% of the population supports Sharia Law. I'm sorry but you can't reconcile the Constitution with Sharia Law. The two are diametrically opposed on so many levels. We need to wake up out of our slumber. No, we can't stop every mass shooter, but at every level of government and society, we should act as if we can. We should return to a time where our national security, our national interest and the rights of current American citizens come first.

Or we could make it to where a dude on the FBI watch list for ties to terrorism can't go into a store and buy a gun.

Also - every report says this guy wasn't even very religious.

Like I said above Jon, even if we had that in place, if he wanted to get a gun and inflict that kind of harm, he would FIND a way to acquire one. No amount of gun control is going to stop someone intent on what he did.

Jonathan Carone wrote:Or we could make it to where a dude on the FBI watch list for ties to terrorism can't go into a store and buy a gun.

Also - every report says this guy wasn't even very religious.

His co-worker at the security firm says he brought his prayer mat to work and took breaks several times per shift to pray. That sounds somewhat religious to me.

Daniel Gilroy, a former police officer, worked as a security officer with G4S Security at the PGA Village complex in Port St. Lucie. Pulse nightclub shooter Omar Mateen worked the shift right after Gilroy at the complex's south gate.

Gilroy described Mateen as a devout Muslim who brought a prayer mat to work and prayed several times a day.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/13/fo ... tcmp=hpbt1

Edited to provide link

Jonathan Carone wrote:Or we could make it to where a dude on the FBI watch list for ties to terrorism can't go into a store and buy a gun.

Also - every report says this guy wasn't even very religious.

What reports are you reading? I've read and seen the opposite

As for the FBI watch list that's a slippery slope. For Religous reasons? The FBI investigated this guy twice and came away clean twice.

SJ - not that I'm saying he was one for sure, but the news media does not understand the concept of sleeper agents. The whole point is for them to blend in with our society, no matter what it takes. This sort of behavior is encouraged and excused by their "religion". Granted, in his recent history, this guy apparently wasn't blending very well. It's amazing to me the utter failure of our law enforcement agencies to connect the dots on these guys.

Also, the below article is really scary. Uses pretty good sources to connect the dots into what this guy was doing and what he may have had the ability to do in his work...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-1 ... -deep-insi

I hadn't seen the prayer mat comments. Obviously the whole thing is fluid, but the reports I heard/read yesterday were from people saying he wasn't overly religious. We were still learning about the guy so it doesn't surprise me the narrative on him is changing as we learn more.

And BJ - I know he could've gotten a gun illegally. My problem is he was able to get a gun legally and with less of a background check because of the clearance he had through his employer. It shouldn't be that easy.

The sleeper agent idea is an interesting one. Given his parents' background, I could totally see something like that being true.

Haize - He never came away "clean" on those investigations. They came away inconclusive. When you're the son of Taliban-supporting parents and authorities investigate you for connections to Al Queda/ISIS and can't conclude you're clean, you shouldn't be able to walk in a store and buy a weapon.

Jonathan Carone wrote: Haize - He never came away "clean" on those investigations. They came away inconclusive. When you're the son of Taliban-supporting parents and authorities investigate you for connections to Al Queda/ISIS and can't conclude you're clean, you shouldn't be able to walk in a store and buy a weapon.

Here's the thing. The kid was an American Citizen with no criminal record. He was investigated and nothing was found to prompt anything further. If that was you or me, then why should we be denied the right to buy a gun? Unless we outlaw being a member of or associated with ISIS than there is nothing that can be done.
I'm of the opinion that MORE people should carry guns. But that may be another debate for another thread

Purple Haize wrote:Unless we outlaw being a member of or associated with ISIS than there is nothing that can be done.

You say that like it'd be a bad thing.

I have a feeling a similar story line as the San Bernandino tragedy is going to come out. People knew this guy was unstable/hateful, but no one did anything about it because he was a 'Muslim' and they didn't want to be painted as a bigoted, white, prejudiced/racist, etc. individual.

I mean the kids dad was a supporter of the Taliban for crying out loud. I know you can't be guilty by association, but goodness... Red flag anyone???

Jonathan Carone wrote:

Purple Haize wrote:Unless we outlaw being a member of or associated with ISIS than there is nothing that can be done.

You say that like it'd be a bad thing.

It's a slippery slope id like to avoid. I have a concern of where it would stop. How would it be enforced? If the guy is making credible threats against America and advertising his intention to do harm than the FBI should be vigilant. I'm just suspicious of the Government dictating who we can and can not associate with.

Humble_Opinion wrote:I have a feeling a similar story line as the San Bernandino tragedy is going to come out. People knew this guy was unstable/hateful, but no one did anything about it because he was a 'Muslim' and they didn't want to be painted as a bigoted, white, prejudiced/racist, etc. individual.

I mean the kids dad was a supporter of the Taliban for crying out loud. I know you can't be guilty by association, but goodness... Red flag anyone???

They prefer Black Flags Or Green

Humble_Opinion wrote:I have a feeling a similar story line as the San Bernandino tragedy is going to come out. People knew this guy was unstable/hateful, but no one did anything about it because he was a 'Muslim' and they didn't want to be painted as a bigoted, white, prejudiced/racist, etc. individual.

I mean the kids dad was a supporter of the Taliban for crying out loud. I know you can't be guilty by association, but goodness... Red flag anyone???

Already out there.

Gilroy, a former Fort Pierce police officer, said Mateen frequently made homophobic and racial comments. Gilroy said he complained to his employer several times but it did nothing because he was Muslim. Gilroy quit after he said Mateen began stalking him via multiple text messages — 20 or 30 a day. He also sent Gilroy 13 to 15 phone messages a day, he said.

...

"I quit because everything he said was toxic," Gilroy said Sunday, "and the company wouldn't do anything. This guy was unhinged and unstable. He talked of killing people."

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/ ... /85791280/

Humble_Opinion wrote:I have a feeling a similar story line as the San Bernandino tragedy is going to come out. People knew this guy was unstable/hateful, but no one did anything about it because he was a 'Muslim' and they didn't want to be painted as a bigoted, white, prejudiced/racist, etc. individual.

I mean the kids dad was a supporter of the Taliban for crying out loud. I know you can't be guilty by association, but goodness... Red flag anyone???

This tragedy seems to be even more complicated?

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/ ... sma/nrfwW/

There's a lot of circumstantial evidence and personal opinion in that piece. It's plausible he had some sort of draw to that lifestyle that he was hiding though. It would be interesting to hear if the wife had any suspicions of this. Of all people, you'd think she would know. Also, is she an immigrant, or the daughter of immigrants from a majority Muslim nation? I don't know that I've heard much about her.

On the other hand, the outcry and utter head-in-the-sand comments from liberals I know on social media continues to get worse each time one of these events happen. I can't believe we are at the point where we are blaming the weapon instead of the person and the failures of law enforcement.

I wondered from the beginning if he had gay leanings. It makes complete sense. Many of the loudest anti gay people come have same sex attraction but come from backgrounds that say homosexuality is the biggest abomination in the world.

The ex-wife of Orlando mass killer Omar Mateen claimed Monday that she believed he was homosexual — as it was revealed that he frequented the gay nightclub where he staged the nation’s worst massacre in modern times. Sitora Yusufiy, who was married to Mateen in 2009 for three months, made the shocking claim on Brazilian television station SBT Brazil.

Her fiancé, Marco Dias, speaking in Portuguese on her behalf, said Yusufiy believed that Mateen had “gay tendencies” and that his father had called him gay in front of her. Dias also claimed “the FBI asked her not to tell this to the American media.”

http://nypost.com/2016/06/13/shooter-us ... ting-apps/

Jonathan Carone wrote:

Purple Haize wrote:Unless we outlaw being a member of or associated with ISIS than there is nothing that can be done.

You say that like it'd be a bad thing.

it should absolutely be outlawed..same thing with being a crip. blood, ms-13, hells angels. its organized terrorism and should be punishable. I feel any association with ISIS should be rewarded with the death penalty. Why are we handling these guys with kid gloves on. Bottom line anyone who supports Sharia law should not be allowed in this country. Call me racist bigot intolerable..the constition allows freedom of religion blah blah blah. The true teachings of islam cannot co exist with western civilization.