A Sea Of Red

Maybe Medic can weigh in here on this one but here is the basic rundown:

A student in a classroom in South Carolina pulled out her phone in class. Her teacher asked her to give the phone up, and she refused. So the teacher requested she leave the room. She again refused. She called down to the office while asking for a third time for the student to leave the room...she again refused. So the school resource officer comes down and asks her to leave with him. She again refused. The officer asked her again and said she would be forcibly removed from the room...she again refused. So the officer grabs her and attempts to remove her from her desk...which leads to the video you probably have seen on the news.

The officer was fired today in the wake of the incident and an investigation by the DOJ and FBI.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/10/28/sc ... cmp=hplnws
http://louderwithcrowder.com/spring-val ... new-video/

The officer should have had the teacher remove the rest of the students from the room and leave the student there. These situations are fairly commonplace and the student almost always complies once the audience is removed. Using excessive force was inexcusable. He really should have never put his hands on her in the first place. This all could have been avoided. He deserved to be fired because he threw a girl across the room.

adam42381 wrote:The officer should have had the teacher remove the rest of the students from the room and leave the student there. These situations are fairly commonplace and the student almost always complies once the audience is removed. Using excessive force was inexcusable. He really should have never put his hands on her in the first place. This all could have been avoided. He deserved to be fired because he threw a girl across the room.

I always find statements like these interesting. Here we have a student not complying with school rules that have been around as long as the cell phone. Multiple times she disobeyed the commands given to her by the teacher to give up the phone. She then disobeys commands to leave the classroom. These are teenagers for crying out loud and they have 0 respect for authority. The fact that a "school resource officer" was needed in the first place is a HUGE problem and evidence of the sad state of affairs that exists in our culture that is now being reflected in every aspect of society. When the cop shows up (call a spade a spade), she STILL REFUSES to listen. At that point, the cop has legal authority to do what is needed to force her to comply. Seriously? Remove all the kids? So she can do the same daggum thing tomorrow? If you ask me a few more kids need to be thrown around to remind them that they are just that. Kids. We are raising a bunch of self-centered, undisciplined, irresponsible brats. And when these kids grow up and are put out in the real world they will be ineffective and turn to other means to survive, and those means usually threaten and degrade society.

I saw the video and he may have gone overboard. But guess what? I doubt that any other kid in that classroom would refuse to listen the next time their teacher asked them to do something. These kids are there to learn and this girl was impeding that ability with her antics. Why are we not upset about that? Why do we always give those acting in a negligent manner a pass and go after those that are charged with holding together the order and civility in our society?

Wow.

All I know is I wouldn't want to be a cop these days.

Humble_Opinion wrote:

adam42381 wrote:The officer should have had the teacher remove the rest of the students from the room and leave the student there. These situations are fairly commonplace and the student almost always complies once the audience is removed. Using excessive force was inexcusable. He really should have never put his hands on her in the first place. This all could have been avoided. He deserved to be fired because he threw a girl across the room.

I always find statements like these interesting. Here we have a student not complying with school rules that have been around as long as the cell phone. Multiple times she disobeyed the commands given to her by the teacher to give up the phone. She then disobeys commands to leave the classroom. These are teenagers for crying out loud and they have 0 respect for authority. The fact that a "school resource officer" was needed in the first place is a HUGE problem and evidence of the sad state of affairs that exists in our culture that is now being reflected in every aspect of society. When the cop shows up (call a spade a spade), she STILL REFUSES to listen. At that point, the cop has legal authority to do what is needed to force her to comply. Seriously? Remove all the kids? So she can do the same daggum thing tomorrow? If you ask me a few more kids need to be thrown around to remind them that they are just that. Kids. We are raising a bunch of self-centered, undisciplined, irresponsible brats. And when these kids grow up and are put out in the real world they will be ineffective and turn to other means to survive, and those means usually threaten and degrade society.

I saw the video and he may have gone overboard. But guess what? I doubt that any other kid in that classroom would refuse to listen the next time their teacher asked them to do something. These kids are there to learn and this girl was impeding that ability with her antics. Why are we not upset about that? Why do we always give those acting in a negligent manner a pass and go after those that are charged with holding together the order and civility in our society?

Considering that Adam is actually a teacher, I think he knows what he's talking about. I support our police officers in nearly all instances and my grandmother is a retired sheriff's deputy, but based off the facts that have been made public so far, it appears this situation could've been better handled.

There is also a problem with a FEW police officers thinking they are above the law (including going as far as telling someone their Constitutional rights can be suspended), and those FEW are receiving MOST of the attention.

ATrain wrote:Considering that Adam is actually a teacher, I think he knows what he's talking about. I support our police officers in nearly all instances and my grandmother is a retired sheriff's deputy, but based off the facts that have been made public so far, it appears this situation could've been better handled.

There is also a problem with a FEW police officers thinking they are above the law (including going as far as telling someone their Constitutional rights can be suspended), and those FEW are receiving MOST of the attention.

For the record, I'm not attacking Adam personally. I understand he's a teacher and I respect him and his profession... I just disagree with his view here. What you may not know about me is that I worked at a public high school and was a varsity coach for 4 years. Is my experience equivalent to that of Adam's? No. But I had enough exposure to situations like this.

These things don't happen in a vacuum, and the only thing we see is a tiny clip from a cell phone camera. That cop is there every day, so it's really unfair to judge him based off of the bias of the students. It's situations like this that provide most of the rationale for having resource officers in the school. So if this is why he's there, what is he supposed to do? Call for backup so we can have a whole group of officers stand there and stare at the student?

Every person involved (teacher, student, and officer) were in the wrong to some degree.

im not saying what the officer did was ok but im sure the girl who repeatedly showed a lack of disrespect will not have any sort of consequences to her actions..i heard she hit him before the video started recording..but who really knows.

Humble_Opinion wrote:

ATrain wrote:Considering that Adam is actually a teacher, I think he knows what he's talking about. I support our police officers in nearly all instances and my grandmother is a retired sheriff's deputy, but based off the facts that have been made public so far, it appears this situation could've been better handled.

There is also a problem with a FEW police officers thinking they are above the law (including going as far as telling someone their Constitutional rights can be suspended), and those FEW are receiving MOST of the attention.

For the record, I'm not attacking Adam personally. I understand he's a teacher and I respect him and his profession... I just disagree with his view here. What you may not know about me is that I worked at a public high school and was a varsity coach for 4 years. Is my experience equivalent to that of Adam's? No. But I had enough exposure to situations like this.

This isn't my view. It's the policy that's been in place in every school where I've worked as well as the schools where my wife has worked. This includes Florida, Virginia and North Carolina. Remove the audience and the student is much more likely to comply.

SuperJon wrote:Every person involved (teacher, student, and officer) were in the wrong to some degree.

The teacher was in the wrong? For what? Maybe I missed something in the story...

Humble_Opinion wrote:

SuperJon wrote:Every person involved (teacher, student, and officer) were in the wrong to some degree.

The teacher was in the wrong? For what? Maybe I missed something in the story...

That's what I'm wondering as well...

adam42381 wrote:

Humble_Opinion wrote:

ATrain wrote:Considering that Adam is actually a teacher, I think he knows what he's talking about. I support our police officers in nearly all instances and my grandmother is a retired sheriff's deputy, but based off the facts that have been made public so far, it appears this situation could've been better handled.

There is also a problem with a FEW police officers thinking they are above the law (including going as far as telling someone their Constitutional rights can be suspended), and those FEW are receiving MOST of the attention.

For the record, I'm not attacking Adam personally. I understand he's a teacher and I respect him and his profession... I just disagree with his view here. What you may not know about me is that I worked at a public high school and was a varsity coach for 4 years. Is my experience equivalent to that of Adam's? No. But I had enough exposure to situations like this.

This isn't my view. It's the policy that's been in place in every school where I've worked as well as the schools where my wife has worked. This includes Florida, Virginia and North Carolina. Remove the audience and the student is much more likely to comply.

Yeah I get that and I can understand that it's policy. I'm asking, do we honestly think that's it's actually the best way to handle things like this? This girl broke the rules, then would not comply with authority when they sought to enforce them. She refused to respond to the commands of a LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER. Forget that this situation occurred in a classroom for a minute. Would you be saying the same thing had the girl been caught speeding and refused to listen to the officers commands? The manner in which the cop handled the situation in the classroom is the exact same as what would have happened outside of it. Don't you think it's kind of ridiculous that an officer, whom is a trained professional, is called in to a situation in a classroom and we ask him to ignore years of training on how to handle a situation where a citizen does not comply with the law and the commands of the law enforcement officer?

I don't know exactly how she was wrong, but situations don't escalate to that level when things are handled exactly perfectly. At some point the teacher and student likely had an issue between them.

SuperJon wrote:I don't know exactly how she was wrong, but situations don't escalate to that level when things are handled exactly perfectly. At some point the teacher and student likely had an issue between them.

Have you ever been the figure of authority in a classroom with high school aged kids at a public school in the past? I only ask because your statement would seem to suggest you haven't.

Not high school, but I did multiple internships with middle school. Granted it was over 10 years ago and I know things have changed. I have, however, worked with high school students but in a church/ministry setting.

What I know about people in general is that things don't escalate from 0 to 100 with nothing in between.

While not a full time teacher as Adam is, I have been a substitute teacher in my second full year. I have had to deal with my share of difficult students. That said, I have not had one that acted the way this student did. I generally let the students listen to music on their devices when doing work because I did better work that way as well. I walk around and make sure they don't deviate from that.
If a student is acting out, I'm pretty quick to focus my attention on them and address the behavior. I've yet to have a student defy a request to leave the room. If I or another teacher or even security asks them to leave' they know they better leave.
I haven't had to have police called because they know who is in charge and what the consequences are

Unless a crime was being committed, I don't see why the SRO would be involved at all. Situations like this are where a security guard would be called and the classroom would be emptied. Perhaps this school doesn't employ security guards and only has an SRO. Either way, the use of force is rarely warranted when it comes to students and it should never be done aggressively like it was in this situation.

certainly too aggressive but i quite frankly hardly care anymore. many students today are just complete pieces of garbage who do anything they can to defy authority and need a little waking up at the reality of their situation.

i saw students forcibly removed from situations by school cops my entire 4 years of highschool. like i said, not as aggressive as this but i dont' have all the information regarding this situation.

Add high school teacher to the list of jobs I wouldn't want.

thepostman wrote:Add high school teacher to the list of jobs I wouldn't want.

Yep - mostly a thankless job. Lord knows we need good ones though. More than ever. That's why I wanted to reiterate that I wasn't making it personal with adam.

people crap on teachers and alot of it is justifiable but sorry, they are there to teach not baby sit and correct your awful permissive parenting decisions.

my 2 godparents were teachers for almost 30 years a piece and took early retirement the moment it was offered due to just due to the growing number of monsters they were having to contend with. legislation has also exponentially gotten worse over the years as well.

my kids are a little shy but obediant because we homeschool or they are more their mother than they are me. but even the 10 yr old is growing out of that shyness.

BuryYourDuke wrote:Conservative Christianity too often feels quite comfortable with the use of violence by agents of the state.

At no point did this officer feel threatened, other than perhaps his pride.

Sad, but true.

BuryYourDuke wrote:Conservative Christianity too often feels quite comfortable with the use of violence by agents of the state.

At no point did this officer feel threatened, other than perhaps his pride.

I would call myself a conservative christian... Am I comfortable with the use of "violence". No. Do I recognize and believe it's a tool that is needed at times to force individuals that don't want to comply with society's laws to abide by them? Yes. An officer doesn't have to feel threatened to force compliance with a lawful request. We can argue all day about whether he went overboard. I would probably agree with you, that he did. But, I'm not going to sit here and judge him for using physical force to get her out of the chair and out of the classroom, when it was her actions that were driving him to have to use force.

It's amazing to me... here I am having to defend the officer, when the whole issue began because the girl broke a school rule, refused the teacher's command to give up the phone then refused to leave the classroom at the teacher's and then the officer's command.