[adam42381]

She wasn't committing a crime. Why should law enforcement be involved?

[RubberMallet]

law enforcement spend most of their time being involved in non criminal activity. as an fyi.

removing everyone else from the room and all that crap is even more of a disruption than physically removing the problem. If i could be defiant and the result is everyone having to leave because i refuse to would be a win in my book and you'd better bet i'd do it again.

[SuperJon]

It's amazing to me... here I am having to defend the officer, when the whole issue began because the girl broke a school rule, refused the teacher's command to give up the phone then refused to leave the classroom at the teacher's and then the officer's command.

Just because she was wrong doesn't make what he did right.

[adam42381]

law enforcement spend most of their time being involved in non criminal activity. as an fyi.

removing everyone else from the room and all that crap is even more of a disruption than physically removing the problem. If i could be defiant and the result is everyone having to leave because i refuse to would be a win in my book and you'd better bet i'd do it again.

They basically called the cops because a spoiled brat wouldn't put her phone away or leave. This is a bit excessive. In my opinion, and in the opinion of many school districts, the situation dictated that the audience be removed. She was absolutely in the wrong. That doesn't excuse the fact that the cop manhandled her when she wasn't a threat. He was justly fired based on the information I have read and the videos I have seen.

[Purple Haize]

Far, far too often we hear "if they had just done what they were told..."

While it is logical to follow a law enforcement order, that isn't an acceptable reason to get the crap kicked out of you, thrown across a room, or asphyxiated on a street corner.

There is an appropriate time for the use of violence. Simply defying a police order doesn't cut it. There was a way to handle this without throwing a minor across a classroom.

What was it?

[Purple Haize]

Pretty much anything other than what he did. It's amazing how often I take someone to the hospital that violently doesn't want to go without throwing them across the room, tasing them, or choking them out.

Removing students from the room is a decent option.

Again, like what? The SRO didn't Taz or choke the girl out. He tried to remove her from a desk, which is difficult enough, while she was hitting him and flopping around. It looked a whole lot worse than it was. I would suspect in your line of work you are not having to pull unwilling people out of a desk or confined space. Interestingly, the Sheriff couldn't say exactly what the SRO did wrong nor what he could have done differently. The Teacher, the Principal, and students who were interviewed did not feel that the level of force used was excessive. And when the student left, class went back to normal.
I have heard several people suggest that the other students should have left the room, then the student should have been dealt with. IMO, that would be the worse thing to do. You reward the student who is disruptive, you further disrupt the other 20 odd students and take away their learning opportunity. Then you have a series 'he said/she said' situation if the incident escalates. And the SRO would most likely have to physically remove her anyways.

What happened to personal responsibility? At what point does a persons lack of following requests by authority figures become enough? Now she will go through the rest of her life thinking the rules don't apply to her. She will suffer no negative consequences for her actions. Instead, she will receive a nice settlement from the Party's involved. She will be held up as an icon and people will continue to make excuses for her. That's the bigger issue with this story.

[Purple Haize]

Considering that Adam is actually a teacher, I think he knows what he's talking about. I support our police officers in nearly all instances and my grandmother is a retired sheriff's deputy, but based off the facts that have been made public so far, it appears this situation could've been better handled.

There is also a problem with a FEW police officers thinking they are above the law (including going as far as telling someone their Constitutional rights can be suspended), and those FEW are receiving MOST of the attention.

For the record, I'm not attacking Adam personally. I understand he's a teacher and I respect him and his profession... I just disagree with his view here. What you may not know about me is that I worked at a public high school and was a varsity coach for 4 years. Is my experience equivalent to that of Adam's? No. But I had enough exposure to situations like this.

This isn't my view. It's the policy that's been in place in every school where I've worked as well as the schools where my wife has worked. This includes Florida, Virginia and North Carolina. Remove the audience and the student is much more likely to comply.

Interesting. I happen to know a 30 teaching vet. Their view is that removing the rest of the students would not be the best thing. The school policy they have worked under do not allow teachers or administration to lay a hand on a student. However, that is not the case with the SRO's. And they have had more than 1 student forcibly removed from their classroom. A lot of times in hand cuffs

[SuperJon]

Are we seriously defending a man throwing a student to the ground?

[Purple Haize]

Are we seriously defending a man throwing a student to the ground?

Nope. I'm defending a person who's responsibility was to remove an uncooperative and belligerent student out of a classroom, when verbal requests by a teacher, administrator and SRO were ignored.

I would never defend a man randomly throwing a student to the ground.

[Humble_Opinion]

Are we seriously defending a man throwing a student to the ground?

Nope. I'm defending a person who's responsibility was to remove an uncooperative and belligerent student out of a classroom, when verbal requests by a teacher, administrator and SRO were ignored.

I would never defend a man randomly throwing a student to the ground.

It's amazing to me that 20 - 30 years ago you would have never seen a situation like this occur. You may have had a student refuse to do something, but they would have been dealt with swiftly. They wouldn't cottle and protect them at all costs while they are defying all figures of authority, including a sherriff's deputy serving as the SRO of the school. We used to teach kids discipline and demand their respect. I happen to believe there is a strong correlation between the behavior and performance of students and the overall erosion of a schools ability to enforce it's own rules. Now we have a situation where even a police officer, whose commands were ignored was FIRED for forcing an unruly student to comply. And I'm on here having to defend it. Was the girl severly injured? Was she beaten with a baton or tasered?

I've seen everyone say the student would have become more cooperative if all the other students had left the room. That to me seems absolutely ridiculous, but let's say that it happened. What if the student had not listened? Then what do you do?

[RubberMallet]

every educator i've talked to about this (at least 5) said that removing everyone else would be more empowering to this student than you can imagine.

[Purple Haize]

every educator i've talked to about this (at least 5) said that removing everyone else would be more empowering to this student than you can imagine.

Absolutely.

[Humble_Opinion]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.2417481

These sort of things never used to happen. BYD/SJ/anyone else... you want to go live in a world where people are cottled and protected from paying the price for being brazenly disobedient, disruptive and flat-out lawless then you go right ahead. As for me, I will entrust law enforcement, the vast number of which are no different from me, with the decisions they make to try and keep the peace and enforce the law. This mess is absurd and it's only going to continue getting worse.

[thepostman]

I agree the girl was completely wrong and should be punished but that does not mean she needed to be thrown across the floor. I think that is what they are saying.

The extreme reactions on both sides of this argument is the exactly what is wrong with this country. We take such extreme sides the solutions to the problems can't be had. If you claim the girl was wrong then you are victim blaming or if you claim the cop was in the wrong then you are coddling kids. That is just ridiculous. Both were wrong and both should be punished (and the cop has been by losing his job). That should be the end of it. Instead people get so heated and can't come down from the mountain top to have a common sense discussion.

[adam42381]

I agree the girl was completely wrong and should be punished but that does not mean she needed to be thrown across the floor. I think that is what they are saying.

The extreme reactions on both sides of this argument is the exactly what is wrong with this country. We take such extreme sides the solutions to the problems can't be had. If you claim the girl was wrong then you are victim blaming or if you claim the cop was in the wrong then you are coddling kids. That is just ridiculous. Both were wrong and both should be punished (and the cop has been by losing his job). That should be the end of it. Instead people get so heated and can't come down from the mountain top to have a common sense discussion.

Exactly. The girl deserves to be suspended for a few days for insubordination. She didn't deserve to be manhandled by an officer of the law.

[SuperJon]

First off, I don't understand the cottled argument. I definitely don't believe that.

Second, this girl was not being lawless. She was not listening to her teacher or other authorities. She shouldn't have been through across the room and assaulted. The police officer went too far.

I'm okay with him using force to get her out of the chair. He's a grown man and she's a teenage girl. Chances are he's stronger than her. He could've picked her up in a different way that didn't involve slinging her across the room.

Plain and simple: he went too far.

As for the situation where cops were injured during a fight, I haven't read the story yet so I can't comment on that.

Lastly, I think it's a sad day when people give up on teenagers and assume they're too far gone to have any positive impact. I know a lot of really, really good high school students with very bright futures. To lump all teenagers under the label of entitled and disrespectful is incredibly judgmental and false.

[Humble_Opinion]

I agree the girl was completely wrong and should be punished but that does not mean she needed to be thrown across the floor. I think that is what they are saying.

The extreme reactions on both sides of this argument is the exactly what is wrong with this country. We take such extreme sides the solutions to the problems can't be had. If you claim the girl was wrong then you are victim blaming or if you claim the cop was in the wrong then you are coddling kids. That is just ridiculous. Both were wrong and both should be punished (and the cop has been by losing his job). That should be the end of it. Instead people get so heated and can't come down from the mountain top to have a common sense discussion.

A few comments.
1) I'm not heated. I do have a strong opinion on the matter though after seeing the results of several years' worth of kids not receiving the proper discipline and direction from their parents and other places of society that are charged with rearing them into productive, law-abiding citizens
2) The cop lost his job. A man that likely has a family and is charged with doing a job virtually all of us have said we'd never want. And what of the girl? She probably won't even be suspended now. Was she hurt in some way physically? Doubtful. Yeah, she was overpowered and in the heat of the moment the cop threw her. He's probably not used to having to do that to people that weigh half of what he does.

[Humble_Opinion]

First off, I don't understand the cottled argument. I definitely don't believe that.

Okay - you don't believe it. We can agree to disagree.

Second, this girl was not being lawless. She was not listening to her teacher or other authorities. She shouldn't have been through across the room and assaulted. The police officer went too far.

In your first sentence, you just say she wasn't being "lawless". And then in the very next you acknowledge that she was refusing to obey the LAWFUL commands of two authority figures, one of whom is a law enforcement officer. Just so you know, refusing to obey the lawful commands of a police officer is a misdemeanor in most states.

Lastly, I think it's a sad day when people give up on teenagers and assume they're too far gone to have any positive impact. I know a lot of really, really good high school students with very bright futures. To lump all teenagers under the label of entitled and disrespectful is incredibly judgmental and false.

If anywhere in this thread I made the comment that all teenagers are worthless then I apologize. That is not what I meant. I recognize that there is still a majority of teenagers out there that were raised properly and are well-prepared to be citizens in this society. However, there is a growing minority of teenagers out there who aren't raised to respect authority, as evidenced by the very large numbers of teens in all parts of this country rioting against authority and taking out their frustrations against peacful, innocent citizens.

[Purple Haize]

First off, I don't understand the cottled argument. I definitely don't believe that.

Second, this girl was not being lawless. She was not listening to her teacher or other authorities. She shouldn't have been through across the room and assaulted. The police officer went too far.

I'm okay with him using force to get her out of the chair. He's a grown man and she's a teenage girl. Chances are he's stronger than her. He could've picked her up in a different way that didn't involve slinging her across the room.

Plain and simple: he went too far.

As for the situation where cops were injured during a fight, I haven't read the story yet so I can't comment on that.

Lastly, I think it's a sad day when people give up on teenagers and assume they're too far gone to have any positive impact. I know a lot of really, really good high school students with very bright futures. To lump all teenagers under the label of entitled and disrespectful is incredibly judgmental and false.

Have you seen all 3 videos? In one video it clearly shows the SRO asking her to come with him. When she refuses he basically says 'are you getting up or am I getting you up' (not a quote bit basically the theme). He them walks up and put his hands on her shoulders. At that point she starts squirming and hitting him. He takes control of one arm and the leg closest to him and tries to slide her out. Thats when her squirming and hitting causes the chair to get knocked over. The officer did not flip the desk, he was holding on to her leg. At this point she was still in the desk and he was pulling her out. She's trying to stay in. The force used to get her out of the chair was such that once her grip was off the chair she went flying across the room. He then goes over and quickly restrains her. Watch the video of the frame grabs
For a fun time, find a desk like that, have someone sit in it and try to remove them while they are squirming and hitting. Make sure you film it and see how it looks.
Had he walked right in flipped the chair over with her in it, that would be a problem. Tazing or Pepper Spray? Problem. And at the end of the day there is no 'Proper way to remove unwilling individual from a desk' training that I am aware of. The teachers and Administrators didn't have a problem with what he did. Neither do i

[thepostman]

I agree the girl was completely wrong and should be punished but that does not mean she needed to be thrown across the floor. I think that is what they are saying.

The extreme reactions on both sides of this argument is the exactly what is wrong with this country. We take such extreme sides the solutions to the problems can't be had. If you claim the girl was wrong then you are victim blaming or if you claim the cop was in the wrong then you are coddling kids. That is just ridiculous. Both were wrong and both should be punished (and the cop has been by losing his job). That should be the end of it. Instead people get so heated and can't come down from the mountain top to have a common sense discussion.

A few comments.
1) I'm not heated. I do have a strong opinion on the matter though after seeing the results of several years' worth of kids not receiving the proper discipline and direction from their parents and other places of society that are charged with rearing them into productive, law-abiding citizens
2) The cop lost his job. A man that likely has a family and is charged with doing a job virtually all of us have said we'd never want. And what of the girl? She probably won't even be suspended now. Was she hurt in some way physically? Doubtful. Yeah, she was overpowered and in the heat of the moment the cop threw her. He's probably not used to having to do that to people that weigh half of what he does.

From what I understand this isn't the first incident so possibly that came into play in quickly firing him. But either way I agree it sucks he lost his job. Probably overboard.

My point is people have strong opinions and always either side with the cop or the other party when clearly 2 wrongs were committed. The girl needs to be punished without a doubt. By saying that some will think I am victim blaming. I also think the cop should be punished. By saying that some people think I am coddling kids. Neither is true but it is the narrative that people paint so then nothing changes. That's my point.

I also don't believe students are any worse than they were 10-15 years ago when I was in high school. Students tried to push buttons and some teachers handled and well and some didn't. The difference is everybody has a smartphone ready to take video and so it is just in our face more.

[adam42381]

First off, I don't understand the cottled argument. I definitely don't believe that.

Second, this girl was not being lawless. She was not listening to her teacher or other authorities. She shouldn't have been through across the room and assaulted. The police officer went too far.

I'm okay with him using force to get her out of the chair. He's a grown man and she's a teenage girl. Chances are he's stronger than her. He could've picked her up in a different way that didn't involve slinging her across the room.

Plain and simple: he went too far.

As for the situation where cops were injured during a fight, I haven't read the story yet so I can't comment on that.

Lastly, I think it's a sad day when people give up on teenagers and assume they're too far gone to have any positive impact. I know a lot of really, really good high school students with very bright futures. To lump all teenagers under the label of entitled and disrespectful is incredibly judgmental and false.

Have you seen all 3 videos? In one video it clearly shows the SRO asking her to come with him. When she refuses he basically says 'are you getting up or am I getting you up' (not a quote bit basically the theme). He them walks up and put his hands on her shoulders. At that point she starts squirming and hitting him. He takes control of one arm and the leg closest to him and tries to slide her out. Thats when her squirming and hitting causes the chair to get knocked over. The officer did not flip the desk, he was holding on to her leg. At this point she was still in the desk and he was pulling her out. She's trying to stay in. The force used to get her out of the chair was such that once her grip was off the chair she went flying across the room. He then goes over and quickly restrains her. Watch the video of the frame grabs
For a fun time, find a desk like that, have someone sit in it and try to remove them while they are squirming and hitting. Make sure you film it and see how it looks.
Had he walked right in flipped the chair over with her in it, that would be a problem. Tazing or Pepper Spray? Problem. And at the end of the day there is no 'Proper way to remove unwilling individual from a desk' training that I am aware of. The teachers and Administrators didn't have a problem with what he did. Neither do i

I've seen all the angles and it seems like he used way unnecessary force. Perhaps you're seeing what you want to see. Perhaps we are.

[RubberMallet]

I also don't believe students are any worse than they were 10-15 years ago when I was in high school. Students tried to push buttons and some teachers handled and well and some didn't. The difference is everybody has a smartphone ready to take video and so it is just in our face more.

I've worked with jr highers and highschoolers for the past 10 years. there were always turds…we know this. obviously we are more exposed than ever before now that there are avenues where they are capable of putting their awfulness out there for all to see. that certainly is a factor. but throughout those 10 years, I've been amazed at the courageous flippancy in which young people show disrespect to others around adults and actually too adults. That has changed. There is more entitlement today than I've ever seen in my short time as an adult. once again entitlement is generationless and has always existed but those 2 things I mentioned combined has exponentially made a difference.

[Humble_Opinion]

I also don't believe students are any worse than they were 10-15 years ago when I was in high school. Students tried to push buttons and some teachers handled and well and some didn't. The difference is everybody has a smartphone ready to take video and so it is just in our face more.

I've worked with jr highers and highschoolers for the past 10 years. there were always turds…we know this. obviously we are more exposed than ever before now that there are avenues where they are capable of putting their awfulness out there for all to see. that certainly is a factor. but throughout those 10 years, I've been amazed at the courageous flippancy in which young people show disrespect to others around adults and actually too adults. That has changed. There is more entitlement today than I've ever seen in my short time as an adult. once again entitlement is generationless and has always existed but those 2 things I mentioned combined has exponentially made a difference.

I was going to attempt to make this point based on my own experiences. I'll just second what you said. +1

[Purple Haize]

First off, I don't understand the cottled argument. I definitely don't believe that.

Second, this girl was not being lawless. She was not listening to her teacher or other authorities. She shouldn't have been through across the room and assaulted. The police officer went too far.

I'm okay with him using force to get her out of the chair. He's a grown man and she's a teenage girl. Chances are he's stronger than her. He could've picked her up in a different way that didn't involve slinging her across the room.

Plain and simple: he went too far.

As for the situation where cops were injured during a fight, I haven't read the story yet so I can't comment on that.

Lastly, I think it's a sad day when people give up on teenagers and assume they're too far gone to have any positive impact. I know a lot of really, really good high school students with very bright futures. To lump all teenagers under the label of entitled and disrespectful is incredibly judgmental and false.

Have you seen all 3 videos? In one video it clearly shows the SRO asking her to come with him. When she refuses he basically says 'are you getting up or am I getting you up' (not a quote bit basically the theme). He them walks up and put his hands on her shoulders. At that point she starts squirming and hitting him. He takes control of one arm and the leg closest to him and tries to slide her out. Thats when her squirming and hitting causes the chair to get knocked over. The officer did not flip the desk, he was holding on to her leg. At this point she was still in the desk and he was pulling her out. She's trying to stay in. The force used to get her out of the chair was such that once her grip was off the chair she went flying across the room. He then goes over and quickly restrains her. Watch the video of the frame grabs
For a fun time, find a desk like that, have someone sit in it and try to remove them while they are squirming and hitting. Make sure you film it and see how it looks.
Had he walked right in flipped the chair over with her in it, that would be a problem. Tazing or Pepper Spray? Problem. And at the end of the day there is no 'Proper way to remove unwilling individual from a desk' training that I am aware of. The teachers and Administrators didn't have a problem with what he did. Neither do i

I've seen all the angles and it seems like he used way unnecessary force. Perhaps you're seeing what you want to see. Perhaps we are.

That's why I suggested trying to film yourself trying to remove someone from a desk like that . It won't be graceful and will look violent on the tape.

The officer will get a job somewhere else, I've read blurbs of people saying they'd hire him. But the damage is done to the student and not by removing her from a chair She now knows the World revolves around her. She can ignore any disciplinary actions directed at her and she does not have a support structure to teach her otherwise. She is the one my heart breaks for

[Cider Jim]

But the damage is done to the student and not by removing her from a chair She now knows the World revolves around her. She can ignore any disciplinary actions directed at her and she does not have a support structure to teach her otherwise. She is the one my heart breaks for

If she doesn't have the support structure at home, she should join the GIRL SCOUTS!