This is the location for conversations that don't fall anywhere else on FlameFans. Whether its politics, culture, the latest techno stuff or just the best places to travel on the web ... this is your forum.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

User avatar
By adam42381
Registration Days Posts
#496817
Kiwon wrote:The purpose of the thread is to call out the intellectually COWARD who stupidly claim that alcohol or drug use is harmless and/or push for more legal "recreational" use of drugs.

That goes especially for you "Christians" (i.e. followers, servants of Christ). Jesus Christ, remember him, your Creator and your Sustainer, who paid the penalty for your sins through his sacrificial death, and rose from the dead in victory over sin and the devil and established his identity once and for all as the promised Messiah?

And, yeah, bright bulbs, he is going to be your Judge one day. Did you forget that part too? ("Judgment Day, cool!....I'll smoke a joint to that!")

Here's some other biblical truths you probably don't believe:
...."the whole world is under the control of the evil one"
...."And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
...."And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience."
...."Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, "I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life."
....Jesus says, "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me..."

"But drinkin' don't mean you aren't saved. You can still be a Christian and drink."

Yeah, man, that attitude captures the essence of the Gospel....God Almighty, motivated by love, paid the ultimate price for your salvation and to have an eternal relationship with you so that.....you can embrace and promote non-Christian, worldy values, ethics, and lifestyle and deny the transformative power of the Holy Spirit.

Wake up, already! Ever heard of the fruit of the Spirit? You know, “…love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control;...” These come from a deep, personal and obedient relationship with God. And what are they contrasted with?

“Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.…”

If you are a sincere believer seeking to live by God’s Word on a daily basis in obedience and committed to do his will for your life, then the Holy Spirit is active in your life, molding and shaping you into Christ’s image. Did you believe God’s Word or not?

..."Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come."
..."For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;"
..."But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.."
..."Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices, and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him.."

Get serious! Which of you drug or alcohol advocates can listen to the testimonies of the changed lives of Ryan Seiz or Jim Kelly or Darryl Strawberry and then go up to them afterward and tell them, “You know, guys, you got this thing all wrong. You ought to be drinking. You ought to be toking. You ought to be partying. You guys don’t know what you’re talking about. You are missing out on the fun!”

You wouldn’t, but at the same time you will ignore their advice. Brilliant!

Bottom line: Common sense, facts, and God’s truth are on my side, not yours.

If you disagree, then prove it. Make a case:

-Why a sincere servant of Christ who is committed to doing God’s will for his/her life and maintains a daily relationship with God through Bible study and prayer, is a better person by using drugs or alcohol?
-How is healthier physically, psychologically, or spiritually?
-How is he a better Christian?
-How is Christ honored through his drug or alcohol use?
-How is that person’s lifestyle distinct from the world rather than meshed with it?
-Why should he self-medicate and try to escape his problems through drugs or alcohol use rather than face them soberly and rely on the power of God’s Spirit to sustain him?

And speak with some authority. Use God’s Word (a translation, not a paraphrase) and use verses applied properly according to their context to make your case.

However, most of the responses I can expect will consist of vapid humor, false comparisons, and illogic…you know, intellectually coward stuff that just further proves my original point.
You are such a likable person.
User avatar
By VAGolf
Registration Days Posts
#496818
That goes especially for you "Christians" (i.e. followers, servants of Christ). Jesus Christ, remember him, your Creator and your Sustainer, who paid the penalty for your sins through his sacrificial death, and rose from the dead in victory over sin and the devil and established his identity once and for all as the promised Messiah?
Yeah, I've read a lot about him. He drank alcohol.

And, yeah, bright bulbs, he is going to be your Judge one day. Did you forget that part too? ("Judgment Day, cool!....I'll smoke a joint to that!")
Didn't forget it. In fact, I remember it every time I sip from the wine glass at communion.

-Why a sincere servant of Christ who is committed to doing God’s will for his/her life and maintains a daily relationship with God through Bible study and prayer, is a better person by using drugs or alcohol?
-How is healthier physically, psychologically, or spiritually?
-How is he a better Christian?
-How is Christ honored through his drug or alcohol use?
-How is that person’s lifestyle distinct from the world rather than meshed with it?
-Why should he self-medicate and try to escape his problems through drugs or alcohol use rather than face them soberly and rely on the power of God’s Spirit to sustain him?

Oh cool, you found a workbook from 1985, in the Sunday School room and copied it verbatim. Nice.

I could play along with this and just merely bring up the health benefits by drinking a glass of wine or beer a day. However, that isn't the issue...and you know it. I could apply all of those questions above to sports, soda, chips, church offering specials, movies, putt-putt, swimming, posting on Flame Fans, going for a drive, hunting, plays, KFC, board games, cookies, wearing a suit, bluegrass, or Nascar.
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#496819
Since Kiwon asked, I'll post John 2:1-11:
2 On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.”
4 “Woman,[a] why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”
5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”
6 Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.
7 Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim.
8 Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”
They did so, 9 and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10 and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”
11 What Jesus did here in Cana of Galilee was the first of the signs through which he revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.

Clearly, Jesus was associating with people who were drinking. We do not know if Jesus Himself partook, but also do not know if he and his disciples abstained either.

And since you quoted Paul, here's a verse from Paul to Timothy in 1 Timothy 5:23:
23 No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.

Modern science backs Paul up here in this case:
http://www.webmd.com/diet/20120524/drin ... t-bacteria

Now do I like beer? Yes, but its rare that I drink it because there aren't any real health benefits to it. Wine? Yes, and we enjoy a glass or two of red wine with dinner a few nights a week. Do I like harder stuff? Yes, but again, its rare that I'll drink it just b/c there probably isn't a benefit to it. No one here is encouraging anyone to go out carousing/getting drunk, which is the conclusion you're jumping to.

Also, I am FOR the legalization of marijuana, but that doesn't mean I've ever done it or ever will do it.

BTW...as for the fruit of the spirit, I didn't really see that in your post by calling people intellectual cowards. Indeed, it seemed to reek of pride and haughtiness, not humility.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#496821
People don't wake up one day and say 'I'm going to do what I can to get high blood pressure and stroke out'. It's a series of choices, just like you went on and on about.
Does eating a rack of ribs make you a better person in Christ?
Caffeine is a drug.

Like others have said, calling people cowards is not the way to convince people to change their point of view. I know Pastors who own vineyards, are they cowards? And let's not forget those Duck Dynasty folks. They own one too!
By Humble_Opinion
Registration Days Posts
#496822
I honestly feel like we are being trolled here.

Kiwon - below is the definition of "drunkenness" taken from: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/drunkenness

I think you should study it.
adjective
1.
intoxicated with or as if with alcohol

2.
frequently or habitually drunk
Yes we all know what the fruits of the spirit are. The one that applies to this topic is self-control. If you have none, or you lost it at some point then you go over-board in all that you do. Those who choose to have a few beers with friends while they watch a football game and eat pizza are not "drunk".
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#496823
We aren't being trolled. Kiwon is about as fundamental as they come. At some point you just have to realize you aren't changing his mind regardless of how much sense you make.
User avatar
By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#496827
I think the summation of his argument has to do with what is Biblically permissable vs. advisable. And that is a valid discussion if both sides can show some civility. I repeat, both sides.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#496829
Sly Fox wrote:I think the summation of his argument has to do with what is Biblically permissable vs. advisable. And that is a valid discussion if both sides can show some civility. I repeat, both sides.
Oh, I've been civil. I haven't broken out words like Coward etc.

KIWON is an old school Fundamentalist. Not sure how that's inflammatory. He probably doesn't even own an RSV or ESV translation!
User avatar
By VAGolf
Registration Days Posts
#496831
#10 wrote:Amen to Kiwon. You have ZERO christian testimony with a beer in your hand.
Based on what? Your personal view?
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#496843
#10 wrote:Amen to Kiwon. You have ZERO christian testimony with a beer in your hand.
What about wine?
Mead?
Whiskey?
Milkshake?
Cotton Candy?
Coffee?
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#496846
Purple Haize wrote:
#10 wrote:Amen to Kiwon. You have ZERO christian testimony with a beer in your hand.
What about wine?
Mead?
Whiskey?
Milkshake?
Cotton Candy?
Coffee?
Coffee: Depends. Decaffeinated coffee is an unnatural abomination. Regular is ok.
By Humble_Opinion
Registration Days Posts
#496847
Sly Fox wrote:I think the summation of his argument has to do with what is Biblically permissable vs. advisable. And that is a valid discussion if both sides can show some civility. I repeat, both sides.
#10 wrote:Amen to Kiwon. You have ZERO christian testimony with a beer in your hand.
So anyone that partakes in drinking a beer with friends immediately has their faith called into question by you? Is that civil discourse in your opinion?

In response to your incredibly ignorant and highly legalistic statement, I would actually like to state that having a beer in my hand, while speaking to certain lost people gives me more credibility than you. Your stupid rules come off as debilitating, suffocating and narrow-minded. All they do for you is make you appear like a curmudgeon walking around with a rule-book checking to see who is following your list of perceived rules that decides who is and who isn't a legitimate Christian. Please show me your biblical reference that validates such behavior. If it exists I'll gladly admit my wrong and leave this conversation.
By rogers3
Registration Days Posts
#496849
Kiwon wrote:
thepostman wrote:I am going to start a thread about obesity and then post articles anybody dies from over eating.
That's going to be a very short thread.

Being obese didn't cause this girl to drive into the crowd going at full speed, killing 4 and injuring 44 people. Driving while impaired did, however, and now she faces second degree murder charges and the knowledge that she has ruined dozens of lives.

Do you think she got up in the morning with the intent of doing this? Of course not, but her series of poor choices put her in the position of doing so.

To be fair, her defense attorney has introduced the possibility of mental health issues. That may be a smokescreen or there might be some legitimacy to it as a factor in the accident. Whether true or not, the girl was sane or aware enough to remember that she had a morning job to get to and she didn't want to miss work.
Postie, the better article would be about getting old and driving, since things like this are pretty common among older drivers. Referencing a previous post, I think we should all ante up- share how long we have been sinning by partaking of alcohol, all the while not getting drunk. I'll let someone else start.
User avatar
By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#496850
I'm requesting civility for both sides. I frankly believe there is merit in discussion and on a personal level I don't land firmly on either side.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#496879
At least I brought something worthwhile to the board with my 'Craft Soda' thread.
User avatar
By RubberMallet
Registration Days Posts
#496931
i felt like i was reading a spam email. i assume i have viruses on my computer now.
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#496971
One of the surest ways to tell what a Christian's testimony should look like, is to ask a non-Christian. A generation ago, I believe the majority would've said imbibing alcohol is something good Chriatians shouldn't do. Now, I'm not so sure.

I, for one, agree with the majority of what Kiwon said. And I have made the personal choice to not partake of alcohol in any form.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#496972
JK37 wrote:One of the surest ways to tell what a Christian's testimony should look like, is to ask a non-Christian. A generation ago, I believe the majority would've said imbibing alcohol is something good Chriatians shouldn't do. Now, I'm not so sure.

I, for one, agree with the majority of what Kiwon said. And I have made the personal choice to not partake of alcohol in any form.
Well then you're just not cool! :evil:
User avatar
By adam42381
Registration Days Posts
#496973
JK37 wrote:One of the surest ways to tell what a Christian's testimony should look like, is to ask a non-Christian. A generation ago, I believe the majority would've said imbibing alcohol is something good Chriatians shouldn't do. Now, I'm not so sure.

I, for one, agree with the majority of what Kiwon said. And I have made the personal choice to not partake of alcohol in any form.
I hope you don't like soy sauce, vanilla extract or Dijon mustard. There are many common food products that contain small amounts of alcohol.
By Humble_Opinion
Registration Days Posts
#496976
adam42381 wrote:
JK37 wrote:One of the surest ways to tell what a Christian's testimony should look like, is to ask a non-Christian. A generation ago, I believe the majority would've said imbibing alcohol is something good Chriatians shouldn't do. Now, I'm not so sure.

I, for one, agree with the majority of what Kiwon said. And I have made the personal choice to not partake of alcohol in any form.
I hope you don't like soy sauce, vanilla extract or Dijon mustard. There are many common food products that contain small amounts of alcohol.
Or take Dayquil/Nyquil for colds.
  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 10
Dondi Costin - LU President

Ive gone there a few times since moving to texas[…]

NCAA Realignment Megathread

Duke Gonzaga B12? https://larrybrownsports.com/co[…]

FlameFans Fantasy Baseball

We are on!!! Hope to see everyone tonight at 9:30[…]

Another player that most people who post on here[…]