This is the location for conversations that don't fall anywhere else on FlameFans. Whether its politics, culture, the latest techno stuff or just the best places to travel on the web ... this is your forum.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#484476
Beej - you've flipped this one. First and foremost, we need to feel for the victims, many of which were on tv up until this happened and could never publicly talk about their abuse. I hope they've healed from it but there's no telling if they have or haven't.

Second - Josh should have actually been punished for his crime. Yes, people make mistakes and Jesus tells us to forgive, but he also didn't excuse breaking the law. Josh is a sexual offender and should have to register as such. Many people have had to register as sex offenders for much less.

Lastly - I hope Josh has been able to go through actual counseling and has truly healed from his issues. If his offense was a one time thing it could've been chalked up to a mistake. Years of the same thing happening over and over is the sign of a problem, not a mistake.

God will forgive Josh and has forgiven him. But God forgiving man and man's sin being accepted are two totally different things.
User avatar
By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#484477
I agree with your points Jon (and thank you for not shouting).

I am not accepting his actions. they are reprehensible and should have been appropriately dealt with as according to the legal system. Josh should have faced the consequences (legal and otherwise) when they happened. I'm saddened that he will not be facing any consequences more than likely (based on criminal and civil statute of limitations laws in the state of Arkansas).
By Yacht Rock
Registration Days Posts
#484478
ATrain wrote: STOP WORRYING ABOUT JOSH!!!!! HE IS THE LAST PERSON WE NEED TO BE CONCERNED WITH!!!
I think the Christian response to this is that our heart should break for everyone involved. The victims obviously but the abuser should be in our mind too. Sin obviously had a powerful hold on this dude and he should be held accountable in every way imaginable. I know I still pray that the victims can move forward with their lives and that this guy, whoever he is (I've never heard of him before the last 24 hours) is able to break free of the that which caused him to do this.

Anytime I see people do horrible things that impacts others negatively my heart breaks for where they are that causes them to do that, whether it be mentally, physically, culturally or otherwise.

Don't let me mince words though, if what this dude did is accurate, him and all involved who didn't report it to the authorities should be held accountable by any means necessary. That doesn't change the fact that we should always grieve when others embrace sin.
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#484482
Honest question: are we Christians obligated to report wrong-doing to legal authorities, or to just challenge them following steps the Bible describes for calling out a fellow believer? Are the two mutually exclusive.

I'm asking because, until Yacht Rock's post, I hadn't considered whether the coverup by family was also a sin. Are the two responsibilities mutually exclusive? Or are we Christians also required to report win like this to the governmental authorities?
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#484485
This doesn't answer your question but it did make me think of something that hasn't been said. I think the reason what the Duggars did is disgusting is because Josh abused their daughters. They harmed their own kids (plural) to protect one. I don't know where that falls on the sin scale, but it's pretty high on the horrible decision scale to me.
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#484486
JK37 wrote:Honest question: are we Christians obligated to report wrong-doing to legal authorities, or to just challenge them following steps the Bible describes for calling out a fellow believer? Are the two mutually exclusive.

I'm asking because, until Yacht Rock's post, I hadn't considered whether the coverup by family was also a sin. Are the two responsibilities mutually exclusive? Or are we Christians also required to report win like this to the governmental authorities?
I believe if the law requires it to be reported, then we as Christians are obligated to report it. I believe the cover up by the family was most definitely a sin and very two-faced.
By Yacht Rock
Registration Days Posts
#484494
That's an interesting question and I think SJ hit it on the head. To protect one child they may have harmed others. Even if he never did it again, they sent the message to the victims that what was done to them wasn't deserving of justice as dealt out by the state. Christians shouldn't have too much of a problem reconciling that we can personally forgive people but they still may have to deal with the consequences of their actions in the community. That concept isn't anything new.

As far as the legality, I don't know what state they're in or what the law is but most states that I know of have mandatory reporting guidelines for abuse involving children.
User avatar
By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#484496
Arkansas...and if Im correct, there will be no criminal penalty (SOL is 3 years I believe) or civil penalty (3 years or age 21 I think is how I heard the SOL works for that)
User avatar
By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#484497
Churches are legally obligated to report known sexual assaults of children. If we have learned nothing from the Catholic priests situation and the ensuing scandals like Trinity in Jacksonville and the elder Houston at Hillsong it is that coverups only make bad situations worse.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#484499
I wonder why (not to be confused with wander wide) some likes using these nifty things. (Actually the nifty things before the 'A' in actually and after the 'S' at the end of this). It can be rather distracting (sorta like texting while driving) to any point being made. (Not an actual sharp type point but a figure of speech)

Here is one thought to stir the pot. What if he was just born this way?
By Yacht Rock
Registration Days Posts
#484501
Purple Haize wrote:I wonder why (not to be confused with wander wide) some likes using these nifty things. (Actually the nifty things before the 'A' in actually and after the 'S' at the end of this). It can be rather distracting (sorta like texting while driving) to any point being made. (Not an actual sharp type point but a figure of speech)

Here is one thought to stir the pot. What if he was just born this way?
At first I was confused by your post and figured you'd been drinking too much at a Wren Magnum concert. Then I read BJ's post. LOL.

I see what you're getting at and I would venture to guess he was born a sinner. LOL.

Reading between the lines I know it makes some folks feel uncomfortable but humans can be inclined to nearly any proclivity imaginable under the sun. Some choose to embrace it and live with it. Some choose to, in spite of the desires of the flesh, seek to be led by the Spirit and a relationship with Christ.

To dig deeper one of the biggest challenges we face as a church is for individuals to be able to discern human nature from heavenly nature. I've seen a lot of folks think, "God wants what's best for me and "x" makes me happy, thus, God must endorse this." Obviously this isn't based on Biblical truth but if you really look at the way the Christian "walk" is lived out amongst a lot of folks these days, you'd think they believe it.
User avatar
By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#484502
Thank you Purple...I think Cider is the resident English professor here though. Point is (your unnecessary grammar lesson aside), Josh won't be facing any penalty due to the amount of time that has passed.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#484505
BJWilliams wrote:Thank you Purple...I think Cider is the resident English professor here though. Point is (your unnecessary grammar lesson aside), Josh won't be facing any penalty due to the amount of time that has passed.
Point is, there is no need (really, none) to keep bracketing everything (well not everything just everything you bracket) because it really detracts ( or some would say takes away from) any cogent ( meaning relevant) point you might possibly utter (not to be confused with an udder which is on a cow)

YACHT. I haven't seen Wren play in a long time. He's keeping busy though which is good. Can't wait till he heads back this way
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#484579
adam42381 wrote:Interesting that the dad supported capital punishment for rape and incest crimes. I guess it doesn't count if it happens inside your own family.

http://web.archive.org/web/200302100149 ... ition.html
Sort of the reverse you usually see. That being the anti Capital Punishment Crusader screaming Kill Em All if one of their own is murdered
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#484631
adam42381 wrote:Yeah, they're terrible people.
I daresay that they are a bigger threat to children than the LGBT crowd they so love to "warn," people about.
By Yacht Rock
Registration Days Posts
#484632
ATrain wrote:
adam42381 wrote:Yeah, they're terrible people.
I daresay that they are a bigger threat to children than the LGBT crowd they so love to "warn," people about.
I didn't realize that there weren't any child abusers in the LGBT crowd... :dontgetit

Glad to hear it though. Keep up the good work.
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#484633
Yacht Rock wrote:
ATrain wrote:
adam42381 wrote:Yeah, they're terrible people.
I daresay that they are a bigger threat to children than the LGBT crowd they so love to "warn," people about.
I didn't realize that there weren't any child abusers in the LGBT crowd... :dontgetit

Glad to hear it though. Keep up the good work.
Oh, there are, for sure, but it has long been the position of many LGBT people that sexuality is not a prerequisite for child abuse, which is the complete opposite of what the Duggars and FRC are/were promoting (and in the Duggars case, doing).
By Yacht Rock
Registration Days Posts
#484636
Not to digress into that debate but there is a logical connection between the idea of man/woman and "whoever I have feelings for." One of those two leaves a lot more wiggle room than the other.

Back to the point though, you said that one family is more of a threat to children than the LGBT crowd. I'm just curious how one would reach that conclusion. I think what the dad/son did is abhorrent but I didn't realize that the LGBT crown had fewer victims than this Josh Duggar fellow. I figured there would be more but I guess I was wrong.
By ALUmnus
Registration Days Posts
#484639
adam42381 wrote:Interesting that the dad supported capital punishment for rape and incest crimes. I guess it doesn't count if it happens inside your own family.
Is that unusual? I'd venture to say that this would be the case with most of us. If you look at all the pastors/"christian" scholars who have changed their minds in favor of gay marriage, the vast majority made the change because of a family member who is gay. It's really difficult to go against the ones you love the most. I don't think I'd be able to say my son deserves to die or be branded for life with a crime, even if he should.

But, we LOVE the gotcha that confirms someone's hypocrisy. It's primo.
Dondi Costin - LU President

The recent statements by Costin on moving away […]

NCAA Realignment Megathread

Duke Gonzaga B12? https://larrybrownsports.com/co[…]

FlameFans Fantasy Baseball

We are on!!! Hope to see everyone tonight at 9:30[…]

Another player that most people who post on here[…]