[VAGolf]

Has anyone else been following what's going on there? I am astonished by the lack of coverage on this in the US. If Ukraine sides with Russia, that is a huge problem for us.

[Purple Haize]

Has anyone else been following what's going on there? I am astonished by the lack of coverage on this in the US. If Ukraine sides with Russia, that is a huge problem for us.

Having spent time there in 93 makes me pay attention to this. Here is where I separate from main stream Libertarians. The US needs to step up and LEAD. Get involved. Why did we not push for Ukraine's admittance into NATO in 08? That would have force Europe to do SOMETHING and given Putin pause. Why are we not coming out publicly in favor of the protestors? Why are we not clandestinely helping the protestors? These people HATE all things Russian. The Government is clearly a puppet of Putin and I am sure he has a cushy account in the millions. This is the crossroads of Europe. We, the US have an interest there. We, the US helped throw the shackles of Communism off of the Ukraine and peoples of the former USSR. Now we just let them get sucked in? Awful. The Ukraine is a big deal. But let's just "Call for Calm" and make another "Red Line". "There will be consequences" the President says. Child, please. YOu mean like the consequences Assad was supposed to face in Syria? What about the Rebels in Libya? Those against the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt? Iran? Or consequences like those who oppose the ACA? TEA Party groups?
This is a pivotal point in world affairs........ and all we have are words. I;m sure, base on the actions of the Administration in the past, they are feeling pretty good about themselves and their rich and blood soaked future

But other than that I have just caught a snippet here and there.

[VAGolf]

Purple, I've had the same thoughts as well. I haven't seen any libertarians speak out on this, one way or the other. However, I do know that the common mantra among libertarians is for the US to stay out of other countries. In most cases, I even agree with libertarians on that issue. However, if there are any libertarians who don't understand the significance of what is going on in Western Europe, then I severely question their knowledge on foreign policy.

[Sly Fox]

I too have been frustrated at the lack of support from the US. I get why the EU has been careful with being perceived as leading this uprising. But we have little downside for taking leadership. Vitali has the gravitas to get the attention of Western leaders but it simply hasn't occurred as of yet. But the last 24-36 hours are forcing the hand of involvement for our administration and much of Europe.

That said, Putin is not afraid to use military force to protect his country's interests. I wouldn't be shocked to see Russian "peacekeepers" in tanks rolling into the Ukraine at the "request" of the Ukrainian president.

[Purple Haize]

I agree Hungary in the 50's or Tienneman Square in 89. What I would love to see, and it could happen, is for several military divisions to turn on the Government and side with the protesters. I can see Klitchko working on that behind the scenes. I look at him as a potential Ukranian George Washington.
Ron Paul showed why he could never be taken seriously. His statement 'I think the Ukranians would be happy if the United Stars would stay out of Ukranian affairs. I'm sure they would be happy if the Russians stayed out of their affairs'. Really? Guess what, the Russians WONT stay out of Ukranian affairs, so now what? The Ukranians WANTED America to be involved in their affairs because they wanted to join NATO. Ugh. Instead we have a President more concerned about Global Warming and what FOX News says about him. It's called playing Small Ball, it also may be anatomically correct in this case

[RubberMallet]

don't worry horseface is on the case

[flamesfilmguy]

It's called playing Small Ball, it also may be anatomically correct in this case

ISWYDT

[Humble_Opinion]

In defense of libertarians, I'd say that the circumstances surrounding Syria and Libya were a little less clear and we shouldn't have been involved without knowing whom it is that we would be helping. I do think it's awful what's taking place, particularly in Syria, and I think if we have clear intel on where the innocent civilians are we should have a rapid reaction force containing some of the biggest bad a's in the US Arsenal ready to be dispatched and rain down on the aggressors. We should also be doing more on the humanitarian front... these people are some of the oldest Christian societies in the world and that should still mean something to us.

The Ukrainian situation is an entirely different story from the Middle East crises we've seen in the last decade. It's much more black and white for us and clearly in our own interest given our past history in dealing with the region. There can be no doubting that Putin is an egotistical thug, hoping to restore the motherland to her former glory in the 50's and 60's when the West feared them. Your statements about our current president's ineptness are spot on PH.

[Purple Haize]

In defense of libertarians, I'd say that the circumstances surrounding Syria and Libya were a little less clear and we shouldn't have been involved without knowing whom it is that we would be helping. I do think it's awful what's taking place, particularly in Syria, and I think if we have clear intel on where the innocent civilians are we should have a rapid reaction force containing some of the biggest bad a's in the US Arsenal ready to be dispatched and rain down on the aggressors. We should also be doing more on the humanitarian front... these people are some of the oldest Christian societies in the world and that should still mean something to us.

The Ukrainian situation is an entirely different story from the Middle East crises we've seen in the last decade. It's much more black and white for us and clearly in our own interest given our past history in dealing with the region. There can be no doubting that Putin is an egotistical thug, hoping to restore the motherland to her former glory in the 50's and 60's when the West feared them. Your statements about our current president's ineptness are spot on PH.

Ron Paul, the John the Baptist of Libertarianism, says Stay Out. If we leave them alone, they will leave us alone. Libya and Syria and great opportunities to come to better resolutions than they did before it became a media 'thing'. Like it or hate it, the World is safr we and more stable when America exerts her Power

[RubberMallet]

the libertarian party is going bankrupt.

[Purple Haize]

Apparently there is a 'treaty' signed stripping the office of the President of some powers and calling for early elections. Let's see how long this lasts

[Humble_Opinion]

I'm not a Libertarian by any means. I was essentially making the point that I sided with them (albeit for different reasons) regarding Syria and Libya because I don't think we knew what was taking place on the ground. Frankly, I'm a little tired of the McCain/Graham wing of the Republican party.I agree that the world is most certainly a safer place when the U.S. is strong and willing to wield it's power, but I'm a little worried that we are quickly becoming a paper tiger because we have spent ourselves into oblivion at home and abroad and we don't have much to show for it. Obviously, the reason we have nothing to show for it particularly in the last 5 years is due to the politicians in power - but explaining that to the average American is nearly impossible, which makes me worry that much more for the future.

We're getting bogged down in regional conflicts, we're losing influence on the world stage, our allies trust in us is depleted and everywhere you turn we're being outmaneuvered by China/Russia. If this continues, a time will come when China decides to test our willingness/ability to live up to our security agreements with Japan/Taiwan and when that happens we might be done for.

[BJWilliams]

Personally (and Im probably on my own with this sentiment), Id of preferred (at least with regards to Syria and Libya) getting 3 or 4 of our carriers and destroyers and having the 4th of July a few months early and making it very clear that we don't mess around and then taking a few of the "enemy combatants" and giving them the "Pershing treatment" (firing squad with bullets covered in pigs blood or however the story goes)

[ALUmnus]

err, where did that come from?

[PAmedic]

Personally (and Im probably on my own with this sentiment), Id of preferred (at least with regards to Syria and Libya) getting 3 or 4 of our carriers and destroyers and having the 4th of July a few months early and making it very clear that we don't mess around and then taking a few of the "enemy combatants" and giving them the "Pershing treatment" (firing squad with bullets covered in pigs blood or however the story goes)

more drivel.

please let the big people talk.

[Purple Haize]

Personally (and Im probably on my own with this sentiment), Id of preferred (at least with regards to Syria and Libya) getting 3 or 4 of our carriers and destroyers and having the 4th of July a few months early and making it very clear that we don't mess around and then taking a few of the "enemy combatants" and giving them the "Pershing treatment" (firing squad with bullets covered in pigs blood or however the story goes)

more drivel.

please let the big people talk.

He's speaking of the Moro Rebellion in 1898 in the Philippines. One of the purported practices of American soldiers was to bury the Moro rebels in pig skin, or with pig grease to thus deny them entry into Paradise. It was rather effective. It's tough to be a suicide/homocides bomber when the promises of Paradise can be short circuited by being defiled. It also wasn't personally Pershing who did this. Other sources state it could have been ordered and/or carried out by Maj General Leonard Wood and/or Maj General Tasker Bliss
Is it sad that I know that off the top of my head?

[LUconn]

The Ukraine? You know what the Ukraine is, it's a sitting duck. A road apple. The Ukraine is weak. It's feeble. I think it's time to put the hurt on the Ukraine.

[Sly Fox]

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[ATrain]

Apparently there is a 'treaty' signed stripping the office of the President of some powers and calling for early elections. Let's see how long this lasts

I'm willing to bet one month...how about you, or did you lose it all in Vegas?

[Purple Haize]

Actually I won it all back the last night. I switched from Willy Wonka slot machines to Star Wars and Monopoly.
I'll take that bet. Yanukovyk has the opposition has control of the Parliament and Presidential palace and the EU is recognizing them. Therefore, for the President to get back into power will take naked aggression from Russia, thus making the Poles then the Germans antsy and morse likely to pitch in to help oppose Russia

[bballfan84]

lot going on in the world..where do we stand with what is going on in North Korea and their "death camps" anyone remember Hitler..how long can we let this happen

[Purple Haize]

lot going on in the world..where do we stand with what is going on in North Korea and their "death camps" anyone remember Hitler..how long can we let this happen

Currently, North Korea is no threat to anyone but their own people. Plus, if we mess with them, we get China involved in the mix. We didn't have that issue with Hitler. WE have Russia on our side then.

[bballfan84]

yes I sure hope people dont feel the same way if our people our treated that way by our own government

[Purple Haize]

yes I sure hope people dont feel the same way if our people our treated that way by our own government

There is no equivelancy between our citizens or theirs. Further, no equivelancy between their Govt and ours

[bballfan84]

they are humans are they not?