[4everfsu]

Interesting article for us today..

http://kirkcameron.com/2012/09/a-christian-nation/

[jbock13]

It was founded on judeo-Christian religious principles and values. However, Christianity is not the established religion.

A nation of Christians? Yes. A Christian nation? no.

Some of you may now proceed to burn me at the stake.

[Purple Haize]

It was founded on judeo-Christian religious principles and values. However, Christianity is not the established religion.

A nation of Christians? Yes. A Christian nation? no.

Some of you may now proceed to burn me at the stake.

[4everfsu]

It was founded on judeo-Christian religious principles and values. However, Christianity is not the established religion.

A nation of Christians? Yes. A Christian nation? no.

Some of you may now proceed to burn me at the stake.

Why waste good firewood!

[lynchburgwildcats]

"but that the organic life, the institutions, laws, and official action of the government, whether that action be legislative, judicial, or executive, is…in accordance with the principles of…Christianity…"

It's 2012, not 1871. Slavery used to be legal in the US. Does that mean slavery was "in accordance with the principles of...Christainity..." up until the Emancipation Proclamation?

I find it hilarious that Mike Seaver says this:

Yet radical Muslims, homosexual activists, atheists and others, not content with America’s benefits, labor to overthrow our heritage and to impose their own faith upon our nation via stealth, protest, lawsuits, propaganda, intimidation, even violence.

Yep, like Christians have NEVER used any of those tactics to overthrow heritage and impose their faith. I guess he forgot about the Crusades, Thirty Years War, French Ward of REligion, Second Sudanese Civil War, and the Lebanese Civil War just to name a few religious based wars involving Christians or different sects of Christianity. All one has to do is google "Religious Wars" and find a rather unglamerous account of religious violence done all in the name of God/Jesus. I guess he has also forgotten about the hundreds and thousands of years of Jewish persecution at the hands of Christians stemming from the widely held belief that the Jews were responsible for the death of Jesus.

Ah yes, I forgot, it's OK when Christians use all those tactics to force their faith on others. Please forgive me for this grave injustice.

[jbock13]

What the heck does that have to do with anything?

If you even had a point, all that happened many centuries ago.

[flamesfan30]

no, we're not.

[NotAJerry]

I'll point to the official position of the US as stated in the Treaty of Tripoli, 1797, Article 11.

The pilgrims were fleeing a "Christian" nation that was oppressing them, why would they then found another "Christian" nation?

[lynchburgwildcats]

If you even had a point, all that happened many centuries ago.

Not all of it, some of those wars happened in the 1990s and early 2000s, and antisemitism and Jewish persecution still exists today...

[jbock13]

Where today?

(let me help you: nowhere)

[Purple Haize]

Where today?

(let me help you: nowhere)

When was the last time you heard a respected preacher stand up and call for the death of all Muslims? What's that? Crickets? When was the last time a leading Muslim cleric was publicly and fully denounced by parishioners for issuing a Jihad or Fatwa? I'm sorry, what? You wanna borrow crickets from the first answer..?

[lynchburgwildcats]

Where today?

(let me help you: nowhere)

You don't think antisemitism or Jewish persecution still exists? That's more comical than NFL officiating. And that's pretty darn hard to accomplish. I suggest you do a google news search for antisemitism or jewish persecution if you are that shockingly naive.

[jbock13]

Where today?

(let me help you: nowhere)

You don't think antisemitism or Jewish persecution still exists? That's more comical than NFL officiating. And that's pretty darn hard to accomplish. I suggest you do a google news search for antisemitism or jewish persecution if you are that shockingly naive.

Oh it occurs. From extremist Muslims.

Just go ahead and admit you made a bad argument. It's okay. We forgive you.

[lynchburgwildcats]

Where today?

(let me help you: nowhere)

You don't think antisemitism or Jewish persecution still exists? That's more comical than NFL officiating. And that's pretty darn hard to accomplish. I suggest you do a google news search for antisemitism or jewish persecution if you are that shockingly naive.

Oh it occurs. From extremist Muslims.

Just go ahead and admit you made a bad argument. It's okay. We forgive you.

So then do you want to go on record and say the Ku Klux Klan and Neo-Nazi organizations no longer exist then? Those are very antisemitic groups and are most certainly not extremist Muslims.

Just go ahead and admit you have no idea what you are talking about. It's okay. We forgive you.

[jbock13]

Are they Christian groups? Supposedly, that was your argument.

[Purple Haize]

And what relevance do those two organizations play in today's American Society? When was the last time the Klan stormed an Embassy and murdered an Ambassador. Then sodomize him? I, sort of drawing a blank when the last time was the Neo Nazi's issued a Fatwa that sent millions into the street burning and looting. Those two examples you cite are are fringe and irrelevant in American society and you can draw no moral equivellancy between them

[lynchburgwildcats]

Are they Christian groups? Supposedly, that was your argument.

The Ku Klux Klan is

1) They have had Christian leaders

2) "The burning of the cross was also used by the second Klan as a symbol of Christian fellowship, and its lighting during meetings was steeped in Christian prayer, the singing of hymns, and other overtly religious symbolism." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Kl ... te-Wade-12)

3) The Ku Klux Klan was founded as a Protestant organization (Al-Khattar, Aref M. (2003). Religion and terrorism: an interfaith perspective. Westport, CT: Praeger. pp. 21, 30.)

4) They were explicitly Christian terrorist in ideology, basing their beliefs on a "religious foundation" in Christianity. (Al-Khattar, Aref M. (2003). Religion and terrorism: an interfaith perspective. Westport, CT: Praeger. pp. 21, 30, 55, 91.)

5) The goals of the KKK included, from an early time on, an intent to "reestablish Protestant Christian values in America by any means possible," and believe that "Jesus was the first Klansman." (Michael, Robert, and Philip Rosen. Dictionary of antisemitism from the earliest times to the present. Lanham, Maryland, USA: Scarecrow Press, 1997 p. 267.)

6) Their cross-burnings were conducted not only to intimidate targets, but to demonstrate their respect and reverence for Jesus Christ, and the lighting ritual was steeped in Christian symbolism, including the saying of prayers and singing of Christian hymns. (Wade, Wyn Craig (1998). The fiery cross: the Ku Klux Klan in America. USA: Oxford University Press. p. 185. Retrieved May 3, 2011.)

7) Many modern Klan organizations, such as the Knights Party, USA, continue to focus on the Christian supremacist message, asserting that there is a "war" on to destroy "western Christian civilization." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism)

Do you really want me to continue here?

[lynchburgwildcats]

And what relevance do those two organizations play in today's American Society? When was the last time the Klan stormed an Embassy and murdered an Ambassador. Then sodomize him? I, sort of drawing a blank when the last time was the Neo Nazi's issued a Fatwa that sent millions into the street burning and looting. Those two examples you cite are are fringe and irrelevant in American society and you can draw no moral equivellancy between them

So antisemitism is only relevant if a group is storming an embassy? Interesting theory.

[Purple Haize]

And what relevance do those two organizations play in today's American Society? When was the last time the Klan stormed an Embassy and murdered an Ambassador. Then sodomize him? I, sort of drawing a blank when the last time was the Neo Nazi's issued a Fatwa that sent millions into the street burning and looting. Those two examples you cite are are fringe and irrelevant in American society and you can draw no moral equivellancy between them

So antisemitism is only relevant if a group is storming an embassy? Interesting theory.

When hate becomes violence and policy it is a he of a lot more relevant.

[jbock13]

Do you I want you to continue? No. But keeping making yourself look like a fool, it amuses me

Oh, and nice source of Wikipedia. Not only is it non scholarly, but anti-Christian/Conservative in nature.

[lynchburgwildcats]

Do you I want you to continue? No. But keeping making yourself look like a fool, it amuses me

Oh, and nice source of Wikipedia. Not only is it non scholarly, but anti-Christian/Conservative in nature.

No, I won't keep going. It's pointless to argue with people who choose to ignore facts. I'd have more luck arguing with a Packers fan that their team wasn't screwed last night.

[Let It Be]

Big difference-the Klan is not socially acceptable in the United States and the West. Islamic Fundamentalism is very popular, and accepted, in the Islamic world.

[RubberMallet]

just an fyi, of the 1700 someodd wars recorded since 10,000 bc, only 7% of them were for religious reasons. and of those 50% have been islamic. and ones in the name of christianity? fringe groups with odd ball beliefs.

not sure what it has to do with the topic at hand though.

[thepostman]

Big difference-the Klan is not socially acceptable in the United States and the West. Islamic Fundamentalism is very popular, and accepted, in the Islamic world.

depends where in the islamic world you go

[TH Spangler]

A lot of groups claim religion ... but have no relationship. You can have all your religion(s), I'll take a relationship with Christ. Comparing, being religious to having a relationship is like comparing apples and oranges. There's been a lot of idiotic stuff done in the name of "religion".