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Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 25th, 2012, 2:28 pm
by From the class of 09
It's not Liberty but...
By John Boxley and Ashley Bornancin, NBC News

LA MIRADA, Calif. -- On the same day President Obama became the first U.S. president to come out in support of same-sex marriage, a group of students announced the presence of the "Biola Queer Underground" at this small evangelical university, touching off a highly-charged debate about Christianity and homosexuality.

The group launched a website and posted flyers around the Biola University campus May 9 with the following message: "We want to bring to light the presence of the LGBTQ community at Biola. Despite what some may assume, there are Lesbians, Gays, Bisexuals, Transgender, and Queers at Biola. We are Biola's students, alumni, employees, and fellow followers of Christ. We want to be treated with equality and respected as another facet of Biola's diversity."

The emergence of the group, whose members remain anonymous, has shaken this 104-year-old Christian college in Southern California. Like many schools rooted in evangelical Christianity, Biola has a code of standards that includes prohibitions on sex outside of marriage and same-sex relationships: Sex is "designed by God to be expressed solely within a marriage between a husband and wife," according to Biola's student handbook, which goes on to say that "sexual misconduct, depending on the facts and circumstances of each case will result in disciplinary action."

With debate raging over the group and its aims, Biola President Barry Corey told students that the school has no intention of changing its policy to "fit increasingly accepted ethical or moral norms. In particular, we don't need to modernize or bend our biblically based position on sexual ethics."

The school also issued a new statement on “human sexuality” which calls same-sex relationships "illegitimate moral options for the confessing Christian.” The statement was in the works before the gay group announced itself, but BQU said it showed the "one-sided" nature of the conversation, with no room for those who believe homosexuality isn't sinful.

Chris Grace, vice president for student development at Biola, said the school would like to engage in conversation with the underground group but has been stymied by the members' anonymity. “We really are at a disadvantage here because we don’t know who these people are,” Grace said, adding that the university would "love and welcome a conversation with them and that’s what we are hoping for."

But members of BQU, who would only comment for this story anonymously, fear that by "coming out" they would be punished and possibly expelled. They said they consider themselves Christians "first and foremost" and love Biola, and are not looking to create "a war" on campus, but they are looking to have an open discussion about what it means to be Christian and gay.

Eventually, Members of the group would like to "come out" and be open about their sexuality. "It’s important to our integrity to not have parts of us be hidden even among the Christian community,” a member said.

One of the members said there is a lot of guilt in the Christian community over homosexuality, but wonders if that guilt is coming from "God, the Holy Spirit or is that guilt coming from sections of the Christian society?"

Visit "Biola Queer Underground" to read members' stories

"Biola is probably not going to change their doctrinal stance for a while; they are going to have their theological stance being against homosexuality for quite some time, that doesn't mean the culture, doesn’t mean they have to discipline openly gay students,” said one of the group’s leaders.

Grace dismissed the notion that students who are "struggling with homosexuality" would face expulsion. "I guess you'd almost call that a myth that students would get expelled for that," Grace said. Instead, Biola offers students an "open-door policy" to talk about their struggles and receive spiritual counseling. But he makes it clear that for a student who identifies as gay and is engaging in "gay behavior and unwilling to uphold our community standards we would initiate the dismissal process."

Debate about the group has raged among students and in the campus newspaper.

Samuel Smith, a cinema and media arts major, objected to the fact the members won’t come forward. “If you want an honest and true discussion about what they're going through, I feel they shouldn't be anonymous.”

Alexis Hughes, a biblical studies major, said the gay group’s anonymity is telling. "Obviously, if it's underground, they know it’s wrong and on some level they know they shouldn't be doing it"

Gabriela Cacanindin, a business major, was hopeful the wider campus would be open to hearing what the group has to say. "I hope that we are open to the dialogue that needs to happen... ."

But a female underground member says a true conversation is difficult. "I have sat in so many classes where we would have a conversation about homosexuality and I can’t tell my story because I am too afraid of getting in trouble, so how is that a conversation at all?"

The group said they have received hate mail and they call some of the comments expressed in the school newspaper so painful that they had to quit reading it. One of them read, “If you embrace the lifestyle, you are at odds with God and scripture, and it is extremely doubtful that you are a Christian.”

"We get questions, ‘Why are you even in school, Why are you causing a ruckus, Why don’t you just leave?’" one of the members told us.

Not discouraged, the members of the gay group say they are here to stay. And, they added, they have received plenty of support in the community and around the country.

"In some ways I'm shocked at how horrible people can be, but I'm also shocked at how wonderful people are too,” said one.

They draw comfort in the fact that more Americans now support than oppose same-sex marriage, according to a recent Gallup poll, and are convinced that Biola will eventually "come around."

School officials already are looking ahead to next year, when Biola celebrates its 105th anniversary, and they said plans are in the works to facilitate an “ongoing conversation” with students about homosexuality.
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/ ... llege?lite

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 25th, 2012, 2:48 pm
by jbock13
Great. More compromising what the Bible is clear on. Personal pan Christianity.

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 25th, 2012, 5:46 pm
by LUconn
seems like all anybody talks about anymore is gay stuff. There's a lot more going on in the world than people being gay.

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 25th, 2012, 6:13 pm
by Hold My Own
Find me a television show nowadays that doesnt as well...

...seems like theres always one character. Meanwhile if you were to use real life ratios we'd rarely see it....whatever though.

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 25th, 2012, 6:25 pm
by jmdickens
LUconn wrote:seems like all anybody talks about anymore is gay stuff. There's a lot more going on in the world than people being gay.
I am a conspiracy nut with the media. I really think this issue is being pushed because it is election season and the media doesn't want to focus on the real issues. You know, like the economy. The media has their favorites and can spin issues to support a particular candidate. CNN likes Obama and democrats so they air crazy hillbillies trying to defend their personal beliefs on homosexuality. I know it sounds crazy, I think it is crazy, but the media has a lot of power and I think this is how they use it. Where is the tin foil hat emot. for my post? lol

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 25th, 2012, 7:11 pm
by jbock13
jmdickens wrote:
LUconn wrote:seems like all anybody talks about anymore is gay stuff. There's a lot more going on in the world than people being gay.
I am a conspiracy nut with the media. I really think this issue is being pushed because it is election season and the media doesn't want to focus on the real issues. You know, like the economy. The media has their favorites and can spin issues to support a particular candidate. CNN likes Obama and democrats so they air crazy hillbillies trying to defend their personal beliefs on homosexuality. I know it sounds crazy, I think it is crazy, but the media has a lot of power and I think this is how they use it. Where is the tin foil hat emot. for my post? lol
I agree with you.

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 26th, 2012, 7:48 am
by Schfourteenteen
Underground? What are they hiding in each other's bunker?

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 26th, 2012, 9:01 am
by Hold My Own
I see what you did there....

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 26th, 2012, 10:22 am
by ATrain
LUconn wrote:seems like all anybody talks about anymore is gay stuff. There's a lot more going on in the world than people being gay.
We're not the ones that put Amendment One on the ballot in NC that got it pushed to the forefront, or who said a prosecutor couldn't be judge b/c he's gay. Seems like the evangelical political movement pushes it more than we do.

At schfourteenteen: :rofl :rofl

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 26th, 2012, 1:17 pm
by RubberMallet
says the guy who mentions he's gay in nearly every post

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 26th, 2012, 2:03 pm
by thepostman
ATrain wrote:
LUconn wrote:seems like all anybody talks about anymore is gay stuff. There's a lot more going on in the world than people being gay.
We're not the ones that put Amendment One on the ballot in NC that got it pushed to the forefront, or who said a prosecutor couldn't be judge b/c he's gay. Seems like the evangelical political movement pushes it more than we do.

I often talk about how this gay rights issue is made to be much larger then it should be, but to say its mainly the right wing evangelical Christians pushing this issue across the board is so inaccurate its not even funny. I would say that both sides are just as ridiculous...just sayin.

I'm not gay though, so what do I know, right?

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 26th, 2012, 11:23 pm
by skywalker5291
Both sides are wrong on this issue. And i agree the media pushes what they want. Obama and Romney dont need to campaign bc CNN and Fox do fine for them. I mean Republicans never wanted Romney and he was pushed down lots of uneducated peoples throats by the right wing media and without the left media Obama wouldnt have even gotten the nomination bc democrats didnt really want him either. Media runs everything around these parts but im a Paul supporter so im wearing my tin foil hat while i type this.

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 27th, 2012, 10:13 am
by Purple Haize
skywalker5291 wrote:Both sides are wrong on this issue. And i agree the media pushes what they want. Obama and Romney dont need to campaign bc CNN and Fox do fine for them. I mean Republicans never wanted Romney and he was pushed down lots of uneducated peoples throats by the right wing media and without the left media Obama wouldnt have even gotten the nomination bc democrats didnt really want him either. Media runs everything around these parts but im a Paul supporter so im wearing my tin foil hat while i type this.
Umm...I'm fairly well educated and I've been a fan of Romney. Nothing was pushed down my throat. Whether or not you are wearing a tin foil hat is not for me to say. However, just because someone does not agree with you does not make them any more ignorant and uneducated then it makes you for not agreeing with them.

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 27th, 2012, 10:35 am
by jbock13
Haize, I swear you are the only I know who really like Romney. And why? I just don't see anything about him that sets him apart from reach across the aisle folks like Juan McCain.

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 27th, 2012, 12:56 pm
by skywalker5291
Haize sorry if it came across that everyone who supported Romney was uneducated bc thats not true but i can tell you for a fact that the LARGE majority of Romney supporters voted for him bc Fox told them he coukd beat Obama (which is so false its funny) i have yet to meet a Romney supporter that really knows why they support him other than he can beat Obama. I have actually had quite a lot of discussions with Romney people who after actually hearing facts and some real economics talk have dropped their Romney signs. Romney doesnt energize his base at all he is the Fox News canidate but he will not win bc the base that is suppossed to back him regardless doesnt even support him.

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 27th, 2012, 1:05 pm
by Purple Haize
We just run in different circles. I know quite a few who are big fans and have been for awhile. He is much different than McCain. McCain loved eing a 'Maverick' and had difficulty being the man in charge. Romney bring impeccable credentials to the table that no one else has in a long time, if ever. Will he make compromises to get things done? Of course. And i dont think compromise is a bad thing. Heck, the Constitution was built on compromise. I do think however, that Romney will be more firm in conservative principles then McCain would and/or people think. He will also be a much better negotiator in advancing his agenda then McCain.

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 27th, 2012, 1:07 pm
by Purple Haize
skywalker5291 wrote:Haize sorry if it came across that everyone who supported Romney was uneducated bc thats not true but i can tell you for a fact that the LARGE majority of Romney supporters voted for him bc Fox told them he coukd beat Obama (which is so false its funny) i have yet to meet a Romney supporter that really knows why they support him other than he can beat Obama. I have actually had quite a lot of discussions with Romney people who after actually hearing facts and some real economics talk have dropped their Romney signs. Romney doesnt energize his base at all he is the Fox News canidate but he will not win bc the base that is suppossed to back him regardless doesnt even support him.
You obviously have never met me! :)

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 27th, 2012, 1:07 pm
by jbock13
I would like to point out that I like Ron Paul. I know I've said it 10,000 times, but this is 10,001. In fact, I love Ron Paul more than anyone else. :lol:

(just playing around guys) :lol:

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 27th, 2012, 1:09 pm
by Purple Haize
jbock13 wrote:I would like to point out that I like Ron Paul. I know I've said it 10,000 times, but this is 10,001. In fact, I love Ron Paul more than anyone else. :lol:

(just playing around guys) :lol:
Which is an appropriate post for this thread. Unless 'man crush' doesn't count :D

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 27th, 2012, 1:12 pm
by jbock13
Purple Haize wrote:
jbock13 wrote:I would like to point out that I like Ron Paul. I know I've said it 10,000 times, but this is 10,001. In fact, I love Ron Paul more than anyone else. :lol:

(just playing around guys) :lol:
Which is an appropriate post for this thread. Unless 'man crush' doesn't count :D
Next thing we know, the media will find out that Mitt was that kid in middle school who sold gum for 25 cents a stick, which created obscene profits off the backs of average working classmates. Or even better, that Mittens is gay :shock:

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 27th, 2012, 1:23 pm
by jbock13
Purple Haize wrote:
jbock13 wrote:I would like to point out that I like Ron Paul. I know I've said it 10,000 times, but this is 10,001. In fact, I love Ron Paul more than anyone else. :lol:

(just playing around guys) :lol:
Which is an appropriate post for this thread. Unless 'man crush' doesn't count :D
You're the one whose smitten with Mittens. :P

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 27th, 2012, 1:27 pm
by Purple Haize
That would be a double whammy!
The Left would hate him for making a profit
The Right would hate him for being Gay! :shock:

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: May 29th, 2012, 9:51 am
by ALUmnus
thepostman wrote:
ATrain wrote:
LUconn wrote:seems like all anybody talks about anymore is gay stuff. There's a lot more going on in the world than people being gay.
We're not the ones that put Amendment One on the ballot in NC that got it pushed to the forefront, or who said a prosecutor couldn't be judge b/c he's gay. Seems like the evangelical political movement pushes it more than we do.

I often talk about how this gay rights issue is made to be much larger then it should be, but to say its mainly the right wing evangelical Christians pushing this issue across the board is so inaccurate its not even funny. I would say that both sides are just as ridiculous...just sayin.

I'm not gay though, so what do I know, right?
Mohler made this point the other day. The reason it's been made such an issue is precisely because it's being shoved down our throats.
HMO wrote:Find me a television show nowadays that doesnt as well...

...seems like theres always one character. Meanwhile if you were to use real life ratios we'd rarely see it....whatever though.
Honest estimates will tell you that we're talking about maybe 1.5% of the population, and that's being generous.

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: June 7th, 2012, 2:41 am
by NotAJerry
ALUmnus wrote:Honest estimates will tell you that we're talking about maybe 1.5% of the population, and that's being generous.
Interesting. I'd love to see some of those studies/surveys. You may very well be right about the estimates, but I'm seeing a much higher percentage in the circles I run in (mostly young professionals in DC).

I hope the Church in general can start taking a genuinely biblical approach to this topic instead of overreacting one way or the other. The discussion of homosexual behavior should be couched within the discussion and ministry of all sexual sins. My church, and specifically the community group I co-lead, has had to find a way to deal with these issues over the past year or so and I believe the elder overseeing this area has done a phenomenal job of balancing the love and generosity of Christ with the truth of his Word. Here's a bit of what has gone on/how we've handled it and why I think that 1.5% may be lower than the actual number (though it does seem clear that is a much smaller minority than most entertainment and media outlets portray it to be):

Our church structure (Presbyterian Church in America) involves elders and deacons with two distinct levels/roles for elders. There are teaching elders (your typical pastoral staff) and ruling elders (lay leaders whose primary job is to enforce church discipline, oversee the day to day spiritual growth of church members, etc. Each of our ruling elders is assigned a fairly equally distributed number of community groups (CG) to oversee as well as a specific ministry focus or two that affects a larger cross-section of our church body. As CG leaders, we have a pretty decent amount of autonomy for our weekly meetings with the knowledge that we have discretion to ask our specific elder for input, and even intervention, if necessary.

About 18 months ago, the one married guy in our CG mentioned that he wanted some help/accountability/counseling for his struggle with pornography. My move was to inquire to our ruling elder as to whom among the session (elder board) was in charge of dealing with these issues without mentioning who it was for. Once I got that info, I asked if the CG member was okay with that elder meeting with him to discuss the issue. Apparently that was around the time that several other men, and a few women, were inquiring about those issues as well. The ruling elder was able to set up a group counseling session/bible study, with help from our CCEF trained staff psychiatrist, as well as a group for the women in the church who had expressed interest/a need. These groups were built on allowing full admission/confession and fostering a place where things could be broken down to their root level and then for a stronger biblical commitment to be forged in the areas where the struggling was occurring. Once that was accomplished, those persons were encouraged/expected to share their struggle (much less specifically) and new commitment with their CG leaders and then the full CG itself.

The guy who sought that help initially in our group was finally able to gain some real victory over his struggle and shared it with me. He then mentioned it to the other men in our group. Eventually he gave a bit of a speech about the general concept, and what was available for others who were struggling, and we had one of the women inquire about the women's group. Around that time one of the other guys acknowledged his struggle with homosexuality. He did, and still does, believe that he is gay and that his attraction is to other men only. We were able to get a meeting set up with our staff counselor and the elder overseeing the men's and women's group. During that time he mentioned to them that there were several other men that he knew in our church who were struggling with the same issue. Thus began the group for those who are attempting to confront this issue in their lives.

The homosexual group has drawn around 8-10 men the first time through. While they come from a wide variety of theological backgrounds, our church standards on the issue are made very clear. We take a strong position of agreeing with Scripture that homosexual acts are sin but also understand that, like many other sins, temptations are always going to be present. We do not practice reparative/conversion therapy but we do make it very clear that even if the assertion of homosexuality as a genetic predisposition is correct, that does not change the biblical teaching on sexuality and marriage and as such a life of singleness would have to be pursued by those persons. Most in the initial group, which has been meeting for a few months now, are at the point of accepting that position and a few are trying to step forward as examples for their peers that are still struggling.

The guy in our group who was/is struggling with his homosexual inclinations was able to share with our CG tonight about his struggle. Of the 10 people in our group, 6 were completely unaware prior to the discussion. The questions that followed were intriguing and genuinely helpful as they touched on how his family handled the news, what we could do to help keep him accountable, and if the others in the initial group were part of a CG themselves where they were routinely building relationships with other church members/attenders who would be able to come alongside them as they deal with what is currently a much talked about issue. As he shared, he broke down and wept while talking about knowing that he'll likely be single his entire life (he's in his early 20s) and not know that intimacy that we all naturally desire. I'm extremely thankful to be in a place where that kind of hurt can be expressed by someone who trusts that other believers are going to walk alongside him and try our best to be there for him every step of the way. I've been blessed to be in two churches, of my last three, where these issues aren't ignored and we're seeing people get past all the hype and stereotypes and really seeking to live biblically no matter how difficult it may be (and I think the other would have, I just didn't see the issue come up while I was there).

These groups allow for serious struggle, legitimate questioning, strong biblical counseling and encouragement to build supportive relationships for the future. The level of discreetness is amazing. I only know the two men in my CG, and the elder overseeing the sexual sin ministry, despite the growing numbers of participants. The elder who oversees it is the only one who knows all of the participants, other than the participants themselves, in our entire church. This is being done to help foster a feeling of safety and comfort for those who wish to being confronting what they're struggling with since, if they're even from a church background, they're often used to having to completely hide the issue due to the way churches are either dismissive or treat it as taboo.

As the initial group for homosexual men winds down, two of the men are stepping up and preparing to help lead groups that will start at the end of the summer. There are already another 15-20 men, and a few women as well, who have inquired about dealing with their inclinations toward homosexual behavior/desire. That puts us at somewhere around 30-40 total people so far in a church of approximately 375-400 members and an average total attendance of nearly double that. I'd be surprised if there aren't even more.

Being in a major metropolitan area I know that it most likely skews our numbers on the high side. To give you an idea of what DC can be like, I went to the new "beach bar" that debuted in the city last weekend and it's in an alley that is next to what is believed to be the largest gay leather/biker bar in the world. With that said, don't let estimates/surveys/a general irritation with the force feeding of the topic by the media dissuade you from the understanding that the actual percentage is irrelevant as they are people who desperately need to hear about the finished work of Christ (just like you and I).

Most of my experience with the issue is based on DC and on my time in Hawaii as I learned about their "mahu" culture. Due to those experiences, I probably overestimate just how many people are gay/struggle with homosexual inclinations or curiosity. I'd be willing to bet that many in evangelical churches underestimate the numbers due to things like irritation with the very one-sided media coverage of the topic, the in your face attitude that the entertainment industry is bringing to the topic, the refusal to even acknowledge the issue (much less genuinely address it) of many churches, the anti-gay image of much of the church, and other issues that keep people who struggle with these things either from setting foot in a church or seeking help from the church they attend. I would say that the percentage is more of a red herring, though not an intentional one, that is easy to throw out there to keep from hearing about the issue or keep from having to do the difficult work of showing the love of Christ while maintaining fidelity to the biblical view of sexuality and relationships.

Re: Underground gay group emerges at Christian College

Posted: June 7th, 2012, 6:19 am
by jbock13
Nice story NAJ. It's something that should always be approached with compassion.