A Sea Of Red

We haven't done this in awhile, so I thought it would be fun to see how things have changed.

I only voted once fyi jbock, haha

thepostman wrote:I only voted once fyi jbock, haha

yes, you Ron Paul ballot stuffers

I know who will win the poll, I'm just interested in seeing how things have changed.

I'm not nearly involved in politics like I used to be. However, I couldn't stray away from this thread when I saw all of the Ron Paul supporters. I understand the anti-government views that a lot of people on here probably support. On the other hand, from a Christian ethical standpoint, this guy is a mess.

For one, he doesn't have support for Israel and has constantly voted against it. Secondly, he voted against a bill that helps catch child porn criminals. He's also for the legalization of gay marriage, prostitution and marijauna. Furthermore, he's against capital punishment, which for me is a real problem. However, outside of his views, I was really just turned off by how his campaign stood out in front of the Vines Center yelling, "Paul, not Perry" before Perry spoke. Paul supporters need to change their style if they want to have a chance.

L.O.L.

cjsweat wrote:I'm not nearly involved in politics like I used to be. However, I couldn't stray away from this thread when I saw all of the Ron Paul supporters. I understand the anti-government views that a lot of people on here probably support. On the other hand, from a Christian ethical standpoint, this guy is a mess.

For one, he doesn't have support for Israel and has constantly voted against it. Secondly, he voted against a bill that helps catch child porn criminals. He's also for the legalization of gay marriage, prostitution and marijauna. Furthermore, he's against capital punishment, which for me is a real problem. However, outside of his views, I was really just turned off by how his campaign stood out in front of the Vines Center yelling, "Paul, not Perry" before Perry spoke. Paul supporters need to change their style if they want to have a chance.

Yea we really need to change our style. All those polls in Iowa that say he is tied for first show that our tactics arent working. And im sorry if your against some one standing OUTSIDE of the Vines and showing that they dont agree with someone then you must not be a fan of the Constitution. I would like to see where you found that he is for legalizing prostitution but regardless if he is it goes against nothing he has ever said.
Dr. Paul is a firm believer in the Constitution and the rights of people to do as they want or believe. A lot of Christians believe that we can only have our beliefs protected but if it is not unconstitutional then it shouldnt be censored or infringed on. PERIOD! to many people in this country like to ignore the Constitution unless it helps their cause. Ron Paul is the only true defender of the Constitution and I will be voting for him come 2012 regardless if he candidate or not. And the Israel thing is another issue all together but Community is calling me to watch it

skywalker5291 wrote:

cjsweat wrote:I'm not nearly involved in politics like I used to be. However, I couldn't stray away from this thread when I saw all of the Ron Paul supporters. I understand the anti-government views that a lot of people on here probably support. On the other hand, from a Christian ethical standpoint, this guy is a mess.

For one, he doesn't have support for Israel and has constantly voted against it. Secondly, he voted against a bill that helps catch child porn criminals. He's also for the legalization of gay marriage, prostitution and marijauna. Furthermore, he's against capital punishment, which for me is a real problem. However, outside of his views, I was really just turned off by how his campaign stood out in front of the Vines Center yelling, "Paul, not Perry" before Perry spoke. Paul supporters need to change their style if they want to have a chance.

Yea we really need to change our style. All those polls in Iowa that say he is tied for first show that our tactics arent working. And im sorry if your against some one standing OUTSIDE of the Vines and showing that they dont agree with someone then you must not be a fan of the Constitution. I would like to see where you found that he is for legalizing prostitution but regardless if he is it goes against nothing he has ever said.
Dr. Paul is a firm believer in the Constitution and the rights of people to do as they want or believe. A lot of Christians believe that we can only have our beliefs protected but if it is not unconstitutional then it shouldnt be censored or infringed on. PERIOD! to many people in this country like to ignore the Constitution unless it helps their cause. Ron Paul is the only true defender of the Constitution and I will be voting for him come 2012 regardless if he candidate or not. And the Israel thing is another issue all together but Community is calling me to watch it

Yeah, um...Duncan Hunter and Rudy Guliani led almost all early polls in 2008. They both withdrew from the primaries rather early. The early polls mean almost nothing. I don't have a legal or moral problem with what his LU supporters are doing, it's more of an annoyance than anything. The reason I brought it up is because of how many people hated it. After Perry spoke, I heard more people saying they would NOT vote for Ron Paul than I did for or against Perry.
I may not have a lot of expertise when it comes NCAA football but I have quite the history in politics. I've been a campaign manager for a delegate race, event coordinator and volunteer coordinator on congressional race, worked for Bob McDonnell & Bob Goodlatte and helped run the McCain headquarters in Roanoke during the 2008 election. I can tell you right now that Paul's campaign tactics are terrible and he's bound to lose if he doesn't change.
Every politician says that they are a firm believer in the Constitution. What American isn't? Ron Paul isn't the only defender of the Constitution and it's idiotic to think that.
Here's an article regarding Paul's views on homosexuality and prostitution: http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News ... _Marriage/

I won't vote for anyone who would be okay with legalizing prostitution. I don't give a rat's behind if they completely fix the economy or kick all of the immigrants out of the country. If you support prostitution, you don't deserve to be in the White House...period.

Also, Jesse Ventura has been listed as a highly possibility as Paul's VP. No way in heck should he be anywhere near the Capital. That guy is one nut who will destroy this country.

but you would vote for the corporate sellout and hilarious flip flopper romney? okie dokie.

Romney is almost the only guy that I don't have ethical or moral problems with. Plus, what's wrong with a guy making a good income? Since when did it become unethical to bring home nice paychecks?

In the article this is said "he (dr.paul) believes that states should have the right to legalize gay marriage, marijuana, and prostitution if they choose to do so." There is NOTHING wrong with this statement.

"If you do not protect liberty across the board, it's a First Amendment–type issue," he said. "We don't have a First Amendment so we can talk about the weather. We have the First Amendment so we can say very controversial things. So, for people to say that, 'Yes, we have our religious beliefs protected, but people who want to follow something else, or a controversial religion — you can't do this' ... if you have the inconsistency, then you're really not defending liberty. But there are strict rules on freedom of choice of this sort, because you can't hurt other people, you can't defame other people, but yes, you have a right to do things that are very controversial. If not, you're going to end up with a government that can tell you what to eat or drink or whatever."

And its not idiotic to say that Ron Paul is the only TRUE support of the Constitution. Find me one candidate running in 2012 that has never voted for something that would infringe on the Constitution. I will save you the trouble of looking. The only person who can say that is Ron Paul.

I may only be 20 years old and not have all the high and mighty political experience that you have but I care about this country more than most people at Liberty and I can find no one that will stand up for what this country was founded on more than Dr. Paul.

On the note of his campaign strategy the vast majority of his campaign is grassroots so you cant really say he needs to change his ways on that note. But in my opinion it works and I agree some people get annoyed by it but alot more people are intrigued by the passion they see by his supporters and look up his stances and then decided to vote for him.

Jesse Ventura?! I dont know where you got that from because every time Paul is asked about a running mate he normally dismisses the questions because its to early in the race to think about that. And the only rumor I have heard of a VP is his son Rand.

You can have a differences of opinion thats what makes this country great but please dont act like anyone on that stage is a defender of the Constitution. Patriot act nuff said. Now thats idiotic.

cjsweat wrote:Romney is almost the only guy that I don't have ethical or moral problems with. Plus, what's wrong with a guy making a good income? Since when did it become unethical to bring home nice paychecks?

Romney is a MORMON how as a Christian could you say you agree with him!?!?!?!?!?!

skywalker5291 wrote:

cjsweat wrote:Romney is almost the only guy that I don't have ethical or moral problems with. Plus, what's wrong with a guy making a good income? Since when did it become unethical to bring home nice paychecks?

Romney is a MORMON how as a Christian could you say you agree with him!?!?!?!?!?!

Right, thanks for your insightful input. I love well thought out responses like that. Nice use of evidence too.

http://carm.org/comparison-between-chri ... n-doctrine

Let me know if you need anymore well researched evidence has to why Mormonism is so far from Christianity.

skywalker5291 wrote:In the article this is said "he (dr.paul) believes that states should have the right to legalize gay marriage, marijuana, and prostitution if they choose to do so." There is NOTHING wrong with this statement.

"If you do not protect liberty across the board, it's a First Amendment–type issue," he said. "We don't have a First Amendment so we can talk about the weather. We have the First Amendment so we can say very controversial things. So, for people to say that, 'Yes, we have our religious beliefs protected, but people who want to follow something else, or a controversial religion — you can't do this' ... if you have the inconsistency, then you're really not defending liberty. But there are strict rules on freedom of choice of this sort, because you can't hurt other people, you can't defame other people, but yes, you have a right to do things that are very controversial. If not, you're going to end up with a government that can tell you what to eat or drink or whatever."

And its not idiotic to say that Ron Paul is the only TRUE support of the Constitution. Find me one candidate running in 2012 that has never voted for something that would infringe on the Constitution. I will save you the trouble of looking. The only person who can say that is Ron Paul.

I may only be 20 years old and not have all the high and mighty political experience that you have but I care about this country more than most people at Liberty and I can find no one that will stand up for what this country was founded on more than Dr. Paul.

On the note of his campaign strategy the vast majority of his campaign is grassroots so you cant really say he needs to change his ways on that note. But in my opinion it works and I agree some people get annoyed by it but alot more people are intrigued by the passion they see by his supporters and look up his stances and then decided to vote for him.

Jesse Ventura?! I dont know where you got that from because every time Paul is asked about a running mate he normally dismisses the questions because its to early in the race to think about that. And the only rumor I have heard of a VP is his son Rand.

You can have a differences of opinion thats what makes this country great but please dont act like anyone on that stage is a defender of the Constitution. Patriot act nuff said. Now thats idiotic.

There's nothing wrong with our country allowing prostitution? Do you even realize how much that infringes on female's rights? Do you realize how destructive that is on a society? If you're for all men and women being created equal, how can you allow prostitution?

You don't care about this country more than most people do. What a cynical statement...
Second of all, one of those principles that this country was founded on is slavery. I support the mission of our founding fathers but no one truly "supports" everything in the constitution. My point is that everyone will say that they support the constitution. For the most part, everyone does support it, however we all have different ideas of showing that support.

Jesse Ventura has long been friends with Ron and Rand Paul. Paul isn't going to openly come out and say who he wants as his VP. Doing it at this point, would be very foolish. However, I have heard through the grapevine, and there is plenty of reason to believe it, that Jesse Ventura will be a top candidate for the VP position.

Likewise on the difference of opinion. However, please use some sources to back your thoughts.

cjsweat wrote:

skywalker5291 wrote:In the article this is said "he (dr.paul) believes that states should have the right to legalize gay marriage, marijuana, and prostitution if they choose to do so." There is NOTHING wrong with this statement.

"If you do not protect liberty across the board, it's a First Amendment–type issue," he said. "We don't have a First Amendment so we can talk about the weather. We have the First Amendment so we can say very controversial things. So, for people to say that, 'Yes, we have our religious beliefs protected, but people who want to follow something else, or a controversial religion — you can't do this' ... if you have the inconsistency, then you're really not defending liberty. But there are strict rules on freedom of choice of this sort, because you can't hurt other people, you can't defame other people, but yes, you have a right to do things that are very controversial. If not, you're going to end up with a government that can tell you what to eat or drink or whatever."

And its not idiotic to say that Ron Paul is the only TRUE support of the Constitution. Find me one candidate running in 2012 that has never voted for something that would infringe on the Constitution. I will save you the trouble of looking. The only person who can say that is Ron Paul.

I may only be 20 years old and not have all the high and mighty political experience that you have but I care about this country more than most people at Liberty and I can find no one that will stand up for what this country was founded on more than Dr. Paul.

On the note of his campaign strategy the vast majority of his campaign is grassroots so you cant really say he needs to change his ways on that note. But in my opinion it works and I agree some people get annoyed by it but alot more people are intrigued by the passion they see by his supporters and look up his stances and then decided to vote for him.

Jesse Ventura?! I dont know where you got that from because every time Paul is asked about a running mate he normally dismisses the questions because its to early in the race to think about that. And the only rumor I have heard of a VP is his son Rand.

You can have a differences of opinion thats what makes this country great but please dont act like anyone on that stage is a defender of the Constitution. Patriot act nuff said. Now thats idiotic.

There's nothing wrong with our country allowing prostitution? Do you even realize how much that infringes on female's rights? Do you realize how destructive that is on a society? If you're for all men and women being created equal, how can you allow prostitution?

You don't care about this country more than most people do. What a cynical statement...
Second of all, one of those principles that this country was founded on is slavery. I support the mission of our founding fathers but no one truly "supports" everything in the constitution. My point is that everyone will say that they support the constitution. For the most part, everyone does support it, however we all have different ideas of showing that support.

Jesse Ventura has long been friends with Ron and Rand Paul. Paul isn't going to openly come out and say who he wants as his VP. Doing it at this point, would be very foolish. However, I have heard through the grapevine, and there is plenty of reason to believe it, that Jesse Ventura will be a top candidate for the VP position.

Likewise on the difference of opinion. However, please use some sources to back your thoughts.

Where to begin? Im not saying prostitution is something that should happen and neither is Dr. Paul. All he is saying is its a state issue because like Amendment X of the Constitution states "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people"

Second I agree that slavery was a bad thing and shouldn't exist but guess what they changed that in the Constitution using a power the Constitution gives them in Article 5:

"The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate."

Third when it comes to using sources let me know what you need sources for and I will be glad to post them. Also the grapevine doesn't count as a source.

skywalker5291 wrote:

cjsweat wrote:

skywalker5291 wrote:In the article this is said "he (dr.paul) believes that states should have the right to legalize gay marriage, marijuana, and prostitution if they choose to do so." There is NOTHING wrong with this statement.

"If you do not protect liberty across the board, it's a First Amendment–type issue," he said. "We don't have a First Amendment so we can talk about the weather. We have the First Amendment so we can say very controversial things. So, for people to say that, 'Yes, we have our religious beliefs protected, but people who want to follow something else, or a controversial religion — you can't do this' ... if you have the inconsistency, then you're really not defending liberty. But there are strict rules on freedom of choice of this sort, because you can't hurt other people, you can't defame other people, but yes, you have a right to do things that are very controversial. If not, you're going to end up with a government that can tell you what to eat or drink or whatever."

And its not idiotic to say that Ron Paul is the only TRUE support of the Constitution. Find me one candidate running in 2012 that has never voted for something that would infringe on the Constitution. I will save you the trouble of looking. The only person who can say that is Ron Paul.

I may only be 20 years old and not have all the high and mighty political experience that you have but I care about this country more than most people at Liberty and I can find no one that will stand up for what this country was founded on more than Dr. Paul.

On the note of his campaign strategy the vast majority of his campaign is grassroots so you cant really say he needs to change his ways on that note. But in my opinion it works and I agree some people get annoyed by it but alot more people are intrigued by the passion they see by his supporters and look up his stances and then decided to vote for him.

Jesse Ventura?! I dont know where you got that from because every time Paul is asked about a running mate he normally dismisses the questions because its to early in the race to think about that. And the only rumor I have heard of a VP is his son Rand.

You can have a differences of opinion thats what makes this country great but please dont act like anyone on that stage is a defender of the Constitution. Patriot act nuff said. Now thats idiotic.

There's nothing wrong with our country allowing prostitution? Do you even realize how much that infringes on female's rights? Do you realize how destructive that is on a society? If you're for all men and women being created equal, how can you allow prostitution?

You don't care about this country more than most people do. What a cynical statement...
Second of all, one of those principles that this country was founded on is slavery. I support the mission of our founding fathers but no one truly "supports" everything in the constitution. My point is that everyone will say that they support the constitution. For the most part, everyone does support it, however we all have different ideas of showing that support.

Jesse Ventura has long been friends with Ron and Rand Paul. Paul isn't going to openly come out and say who he wants as his VP. Doing it at this point, would be very foolish. However, I have heard through the grapevine, and there is plenty of reason to believe it, that Jesse Ventura will be a top candidate for the VP position.

Likewise on the difference of opinion. However, please use some sources to back your thoughts.

Where to begin? Im not saying prostitution is something that should happen and neither is Dr. Paul. All he is saying is its a state issue because like Amendment X of the Constitution states "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people"

Second I agree that slavery was a bad thing and shouldn't exist but guess what they changed that in the Constitution using a power the Constitution gives them in Article 5:

"The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate."

Third when it comes to using sources let me know what you need sources for and I will be glad to post them. Also the grapevine doesn't count as a source.

This is my last post because you're like every other Ron Paul extremist. You'll never listen to anyone else regarding political issues. At least you won't until Paul loses.

You don't have to say that prostitution is right. Simply allowing any state to legalize it is bad enough. It's the same thing as abortion. Just because you don't technically, "support" it, doesn't mean that you aren't against it. So, let me rephrase. I won't vote for anyone who would allow prostitution to be legalized at any level.

Yeah, I'm not arguing that the constitution didn't allow for their to be a change concerning slavery. My point is that I don't buy into the guys who say that we need to get "back to basics." Yeah, give me some resources proving that Ron Paul is the only supporter of the constitution. I'd like to read that. Oh, and my grapevine is pretty credible concerning these issues. I've predicted elections long before the candidates were even announced based on the people in my "grapevine." You can also find numerous statements made my Jesse Ventura saying that he would be interested in a VP run under Paul.

Well im glad you have predicted elections before. I predicted the end of the world but im not going to tell anyone what it is and when it happens im going to say told you so. And your right I wont change my view on the issues bc I heard what you said and I disagree kind of like you do with me And I know many sources around me that woul say they have heard that I would be interested in running on Pauls ticket. Enjoy voting for your Ne-cons and I will vote for Paul.

cjsweat wrote:I'm not nearly involved in politics like I used to be. However, I couldn't stray away from this thread when I saw all of the Ron Paul supporters. I understand the anti-government views that a lot of people on here probably support. On the other hand, from a Christian ethical standpoint, this guy is a mess.

For one, he doesn't have support for Israel and has constantly voted against it. Secondly, he voted against a bill that helps catch child porn criminals. He's also for the legalization of gay marriage, prostitution and marijauna. Furthermore, he's against capital punishment, which for me is a real problem. However, outside of his views, I was really just turned off by how his campaign stood out in front of the Vines Center yelling, "Paul, not Perry" before Perry spoke. Paul supporters need to change their style if they want to have a chance.

Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

Ron Paul is not perfect this much is true, but he is the only candidate who actually still believes our founding fathers knew what they were doing when they wrote the constitution. He does not support gay marriage, prostitution, or the legalization of marijuana. You will never, EVER find that. He just believes those issues should be handled by the states which is how this country is suppose to be run.

But you stick with your cookie-cutter republican, Mitt Romney, and see where that gets this country. More of the same every other cookie cutter politician has given us...nothing.

How is being anti-capital punishment a problem from a Christian ethical standpoint?

I will vote for President Obama before I vote for Newt Gingrich.

These definitive Ron Paul statements are hilarious. He's the only one blah blah blah...he's never done blah blah blah...
Okay, have you really looked at his entire record? I think you'd be surprised.
Let's not hyperbolize Ron Paul, and let's go easy on the quote-bonanza, it's hard to follow.

Oh, and is Gary Johnson still running?

Liberty4Life wrote:I will vote for President Obama before I vote for Newt Gingrich.

ALUmnus wrote:These definitive Ron Paul statements are hilarious. He's the only one blah blah blah...he's never done blah blah blah...
Okay, have you really looked at his entire record? I think you'd be surprised.
Let's not hyperbolize Ron Paul, and let's go easy on the quote-bonanza, it's hard to follow.

Oh, and is Gary Johnson still running?

the dude is still a politician. his record is alot cleaner than most however. you can tell cjsweat has worked for a campaign by the way. good stuff.

I am aware we are in some tough times economically. I would say some of this rest upon our president. What is your major complaint with what Obama has done as president? I ask in all seriousness. I am not an Obama advocate, I just dont join in on the hate either. His forgien policy has been solid, and I think he has tried to put Political Alliances aside for what he thinks is best for the country. IMO. I am a voter, and I trust some people on this board will give valid points.

BuryYourDuke wrote:God bless the ignorant souls that believe writing a blank check to the morally bankrupt secular Israel is ethically in line with Christianity.

I totally disagree with half that statement. But from the disparity of our experiences it doesnt surprise me. I still think you are a wonderful person and an asset to the human race!

For those that say they will vote for Obama if X is the republican candidate, that is just childish. Sometimes life is not about making the 'right' choice. It is about making the 'less bad' choice. I think anyone of the likely candidates, IMO Romney Newt orecen Paul, are immensely better for me and the country then President Obama. NOW is the time to fight for your candidate. Good on you if you like Ron Paul. Do your darnedest to get him the nomination. If you think being a Mormon makes you stupid, fine. But would he be better then Obama? Does converting to Catholocism and twice married upset you? Fine. Fight for who you want, but ask yourself if he would be better then who we have now. If abortion is your hot bottom issues, ask yourself who has a better chance of nominating Judges and Justices that agree with you? (IMO this is what W did best!)
Finally I think ANY Republican elected will have to take the Tea Party into consideration. They are active, conservative and vote. They will still hold a lot of sway in the House and hopefully Senate. Ask yourself how a second term for Obama helps ANY cause you hold dear?