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Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

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By jbock13
Registration Days Posts
#395930
I'm not going to link to the article because I don't want to give the guy the website hits he so desperately desires, but now ESPN says Penn State shouldn't play football. What an absolute ignoramus. Start thinking with your brain and not your heart. Punish the people who were responsible. Last time I checked, that was Sandusky.

What's next, do you want to exhume Paterno's body and crucify him upside down? This crap really pi$$es me off. This isn't even about Sandusky, and it never was for the media. This was about destroying Joe Paterno.
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#395934
I don't believe the media has been about destroying Paterno. For them, it's about making a story as sensational as possible in order to generate followship. In this case, I don't think media had to try very hard. The perjury charges also speak for themselves.

Secondly, those calling for the NCAA's Death Penalty to Penn State football don't realize that no NCAA rules were broken. I believe in punishing those responsible - a list which includes far many more than Sandusky, as you erroneously stated jbock - but the NCAA does not have jurisdiction over such issues.
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By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#395937
jbock13 wrote:I'm not going to link to the article because I don't want to give the guy the website hits he so desperately desires, but now ESPN says Penn State shouldn't play football. What an absolute ignoramus. Start thinking with your brain and not your heart. Punish the people who were responsible. Last time I checked, that was Sandusky.

What's next, do you want to exhume Paterno's body and crucify him upside down? This crap really pi$$es me off. This isn't even about Sandusky, and it never was for the media. This was about destroying Joe Paterno.
I saw the guy on outside the lines yesterday and thought the same thing to an extent. I think Penn State is doing a good job ridding themselves of the people who clearly covered this up for so long. I do, however, agree that they should probably remove the statue of Joe Paterno. I realize he is still one of the greatest coaches to coach any sport but he clearly knew what was going on and actively participated in covering it up. That is not a kind of person a school should have a monument for.

I do think it is going WAY, WAY too far punishing the kids on that team right now by taking football away from them for a year. Its just not right. Get rid of any trace of the people who were involved in the cover up and do it fast. That is what should happen.

The guy calling for the death penalty for the program is simply trying to get noticed and is using this sad situation to do it. I had no idea who he was until this and now there are a lot of people talking about him. He got exactly what he wanted which is absolutely disgusting to me.
User avatar
By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#395939
Sly Fox wrote:You had never heard of Rick Reilly? Seriously?
oh, that is not who I heard talking about it yesterday on Outside the Lines. It was another writer at espn. I just assumed that is who jbock was talking about. Either way it doesn't change my post...

I have heard from Rick Reilly, and that isn't surprising coming from him. He hasn't been relevant for a while so its a good move. Its awesome to use a tragedy to draw attention to yourself.
User avatar
By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#395941
How is firing everybody involved in the cover up and taking down the statue of Joe Paterno and erasing his legacy brushing it under the rug?? That is what SHOULD happen....

I just don't see how punishing kids who were not involved at all in this does any good.

Punish the people who were involved in the cover up. Get them away from Penn State. That is far from brushing it under the rug.

If you read any of my posts when this thing came out you would know that I think this whole thing was sick and there is absolutely no need for it.

But yes, since i don't thin there is a need to cancel football at Penn State, that must mean I want to sweep all under the rug and act as if it didn't happen.

Great logic there sly.
User avatar
By jbock13
Registration Days Posts
#395945
I cant stand Rick Rilley. If he doesn't like baseball he can stick an apple... well I'll leave it at that.

He's the white version of Jemile Hill, minus the racism.
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#395951
Count me in the group that doesn't think cancelling football is a wise course of action here. I think the NCAA has come out and said that there is nothing about this that could fall under their jurisdiction.
User avatar
By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#395953
jbock13 wrote:I cant stand Rick Rilley. If he doesn't like baseball he can stick an apple... well I'll leave it at that.

He's the white version of Jemile Hill, minus the racism.

I remember when she wrote for the Orlando paper and nobody liked her. Perfect fit for ESPN, haha

I just don't get how cancelling football helps. Since sly seems to believe it is justified I would really like to hear his logic because the logic from one espn talking head I heard talking about it yesterday just seemed to be saying it should happen without explain why it should happen.
SuperJon wrote:They broke no NCAA rules.

Punish them legally.

Let the kids play.
This...I mean the kids on that football team broke no laws (well didn't break these laws, haha) and I don't understand why punishing them is a good course of action.

I guess everybody knows where I stand now but it just make zero sense.

Get rid of those who covered it up.

Get rid of that statue to the man who helped cover it up.

Aside from that there is nothing else that should be done unless you are simply reacting from pure emotion.
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#395955
First off, I don't have a firm opinion one way or the other in regard to a Death Penalty. I see both sides of the argument. Despite the bad precedent it would set, I wouldn't have a big problem with seeing the NCAA punishment handed down. But it would be a bad precedent indeed.

As for the players, they would all be freed from their scholarships if they so chose and could transfer immediately to other schools. That was established by the Baylor scandal. If being at Penn State is important to the students, their scholarships would continue to be honored and a waiver could be considered to allow players who stayed at the school to not have death penalty years count against the 5-year rule.

Frankly it would be better if the school did the right thing and chose to shut down the program for a year voluntarily. But considering the fact they don't even appear to be interested in taking down JoePa's statue, that obviously isn't on the table.

Some in this thread act like this was simply a small issue involving just a couple of people, one of whom is dead. The fact of the matter is this was an institution that had a pervasive culture of fear and cover-up.
User avatar
By RubberMallet
Registration Days Posts
#395957
i don't think the ncaa should do anything until we start to see how the legal stuff starts coming up. penn st might need these contracts to pay some bills they got coming.

the ncaa could certainly do something about this and i bet they will. there are plenty of rules they can use to apply to this situation.

i'm not crying for the football program to die. i think it will in time. i think psu will be a technical college by the time i'm 40. the payouts they are about to be writing checks for will be astronomical.

i'm not for taking down the statue. it should remain as a reminder of what can happen when priorities are not in the right place. it probably will be taken down because of defacement, though.
By 4everfsu
Registration Days Posts
#395958
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By RubberMallet
Registration Days Posts
#395960
when things like this happen you will have collateral damage. the current students/athletes at the institution are going to quickly learn what the real world is like. something of this magnitude gives reason for shutting down the football program should they determine to do so. whether for a short period or indefinetly. compensate the current coaches not associated with this, let them go free, allow athletes to seek new teams without penalty or stay with free tuition/board.
User avatar
By jbock13
Registration Days Posts
#395961
4everfsu wrote:I would not cry if PSU loses their football team for a year or a lifetime.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... it-package

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/ ... id-scandal


Joe Pa got off easy

http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... eeh-report
lol
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#395976
RubberMallet wrote:There are plenty of rules [the NCAA] can use to apply to this situation.
I have a pretty good feel for the NCAA's Division I Manual. I'm genuinely asking: can you name one?
User avatar
By RubberMallet
Registration Days Posts
#395989
oh you have a pretty good feel? *shiver* anything regarding institutional control is wide open to interpretation. i feel any ncaa sanction will be nothing compared to everything else that will be levied on the institution.
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#395996
The NCAA should not levy the death penalty against the Penn State football program. JoePa is dead (lung cancer, what goes around comes around as they say), Sandusky will be in prison for the rest of his miserable life at the bottom of the prisoners totem pole, and others involved in the cover up are gone. The JoePa statue should come down.

The Freeh report makes it clear football ran the institution, not the other way around. That is a clear lack of institutional control, and as such hefty fines in the hundreds of millions of dollars should be dealt out by the NCAA. The kids on that team did nothing wrong, they earned a scholarship and should be able to play. However, the institution that is Penn State must be held accountable.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#396002
The statue should stay. Look around the country at how many statues there are to people HO were racists, murderers, rapists etc. The answer is quite a few, even at college campus'. The are there for the 'good' things they accomplished judging they far outweighed the bad. Also, as is human nature, this will all blow over and be put in the rear view mirror. 10 years from now it will be a side note, 20 a passing reference, 30 almost forgotten. It's the way we are.
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#396003
RubberMallet wrote:oh you have a pretty good feel? *shiver* anything regarding institutional control is wide open to interpretation. i feel any ncaa sanction will be nothing compared to everything else that will be levied on the institution.
The precepts, not to mention the precedents, of the rules governing institutional control are actually not "wide open to interpretation." there has NEVER been an NCAA penalty levied solely on the basis of local, state or federal illegality. The NCAA has been more than happy to allow the courts of law to pass such judgment, and also the institutions to follow through with regards to personnel. Furthermore, issues of control are one of the institutions systems of observation and internal compliance. The office of compliance, as required and structured by the NCAA, has no requirement to report and/or govern areas such as the Cleary Act or other areas applicable to this gruesome case. Therefore, the actions taken (or not taken) by those at fault cannot be judged by the NCAA on any basis of institutional control.


You are correct in that any NCAA sanctions would pale in comparison to all else, which is why the NCAA should remain largely uninvolved. The future of Penn State's football program will be decided in Harrisburg, not Indianapolis.

ATrain, the NCAA's precedents involving institutional control are all concerned with said control in regards to NCAA policies and procedures. Until someone shows me conclusively how the concealment of these acts was a violation of NCAA rules, the precedents for institutional control and lack thereof do not apply.
User avatar
By RubberMallet
Registration Days Posts
#396006
nobody has to show you anything. the NCAA has used institutional control as it miscellaneous ruling for years.
By 4everfsu
Registration Days Posts
#396009
I just got done watching Meet the Press this morning and at the end was the PSU scandal. Bob Costas was asked what type of penalties can be coming down. He stated PSU should suspend football for a year or two, because if not he thinks the NCAA will. Players can transfer immediately or keep their scholarships and have their eligibility extended, and all coaches still get payed by PSU.
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#396010
RubberMallet wrote:nobody has to show you anything. the NCAA has used institutional control as it miscellaneous ruling for years.
And yet, the NCAA has never invoked a lack of institutional control of the basis of illegality outside their purview. Logically, objectively, and rationally - why should they do so now?

And by the way, never has it been miscellaneous. It has been general and even overall in nature, but never simply miscellaneous.
User avatar
By RubberMallet
Registration Days Posts
#396011
you are looking for logic and objectivity in regards to what the NCAA may or may not do? theee NCAA?
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