A Sea Of Red

Independents Hate Both Parties as Never Before

In the shadow of the bitterly fought agreement to raise the federal debt ceiling, the independent voters who usually hold the balance of power in American politics are expressing astronomical levels of discontent with President Obama, Congress, and the Washington system itself.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... _page=true

Pretty much sums up my opinion of Washington

FIRE THEM ALL 2012!!!!!

I don't believe it's failed at all. It's representative government. I'm so tired of hearing, "We'll never get rid of (my congressional candidate). Hogwash. Granted, there's some districts that will always be safe. (VA-6, perfect example). No matter how hard you try, nobody will beat Goodlatte. But it's the exception to rule. The reason we got to where we are in America today is because, we, as Americans, have done it to ourselves.

I'm waiting for the day where Americans will stand up begin to reform our government by voting socialists and marxists out of our Congress and Senate. To bring back fiscal responsibility to government. For the government to get out of my life whether I want to sell lemonade, or (gasp), not wear my seatbelt. (which by the way, I do)

But, dang it, I really want my social security money! I'm entitled to it!

And thus, the cycle continues...

It won't happen. Even the "conservatives" give in to Washington special interests and give money...We had a republican run government for a while and all they did was increase spending as well. People will say we should raise taxes, and at this point maybe they are right, but its been years and years and years of increasing spending by the federal government and the federal government getting involved in things they have no business getting involved with.

Its not over because of the American people. Its over because the political system is broke and money speaks and man is evil. That is why this country will never recover. Man's creed and desire to make more money will always draw the wrong people into politics. There are some good ones, but most are not...They talk a good talk but in the end they end up being just like all the others.

As you can see I have lost complete faith.

can't agree with the conclusion, but you have good points postman. People want the money, screw the country.

Please if we raise taxes does anyone think that will fix the situation. Nope, they will feel free to spend more money and say the problem we are in debt is because we don't have enough money. USA govt should be mandated to follow a balanced budget.

Only one problem with the balanced budget. All Democrats have to do is balance the budget by increasing taxes.

Yeah, I know it's an RNC talking point, but this time it's actually true.

Oh I agree I think raising taxes is a terrible idea, but at this point the spending has gotten so out of control I can see their point at times but then I come to my senses.

Kick all lobbyist/special interest groups out of politics and Washington and then maybe the federal government will get back to the basics but again I have lost all hope. I don't like throwing out crappy cliche's but this is the only cliche that has rang true in my own life. The only thing that can save us now is God Himself and through Him alone.

Its too bad Fox News and the Christian right has made a statement like that seem so cringe worthy.

I'm all for increasing taxes on the wealthiest Americans, mostly those making more than $1 million. The rate of CEO pay and compensation (those already making millions and billions), has increased at an astronomical rate (goes along with the theory that greed is what is driving our country):
http://www.msnmoneypennystocks.com/stoc ... w-reality/
http://cwa6132.org/index.php?option=com ... s-articles
http://money.msn.com/investment-advice/ ... e29558ce0c
They are being rewarded for cost savings, often at the expense of employees who receive little or no increase in pay or got laid off. Warren Buffett and Bill Gates agree that they should pay more in taxes:
[youtube][/youtube]
And yes, it does go back to corporate greed:
[youtube][/youtube]

(start about 2 minutes in...and I'll save my opinions on the fed, which is another huge part of the problem, for later).

I'm also for cutting spending. We should not be making it more rewarding to sit at home and collect a welfare or disability check than it is to work a minimum-wage job at McDonald's.

We also need to cut economic development aid to foreign countries, including China:
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/virg ... r-1219074/

We also need to audit ALL of our government agencies at the local, state and federal levels, and enact policy changes to make processes 1. more efficient and 2. where possible, eliminate duplication of services. Nearly any bureaucrat who deals with policy enforcement or eligibility decisions can tell you how inefficient the policies now are.

Finally, we need to get rid of Ben Bernanke and put someone in charge of the fed who knows what they're doing.

Yes, I know many of my statements are overly broad, and there is much more that needs to be done that I haven't addressed, but our country is currently like a morbidly obese patient w/ clogged arteries and COPD, needing a liver transplant as well, that fell off a 3-story building and then got ran over by a semi and miraculously survived.

The rich are already paying their taxes. Who are you to say they should pay even more? So its okay if the government steals 40% of what they own? Will you be willing to pay that exact tax rate?

I'm so tired of hearing "the rich don't pay their fair share." 47% of Americans don't even pay taxes. So who's not paying their fair share?

Simple way to end all this class warfare nonsense, is a consumption tax. In Peru, 16% of what you pay is taxed. Nothing more, nothing less. Compare that to America's 30-40% corporate income tax, and you'll see why Peru's economy is growing faster than ours.

But then again, if we do a consumption tax, we won't have anymore Democrats demoguaging about social justice anymore now would we?

I say this in all respectufl kindness

jbock13 wrote:I'm waiting for the day where Americans will stand up begin to reform our government by voting socialists and marxists out of our Congress and Senate. To bring back fiscal responsibility to government. For the government to get out of my life whether I want to sell lemonade, or (gasp), not wear my seatbelt. (which by the way, I do)

Won't happen, unless a truly transcendant leader somes along. They had the most brilliant strategy imaginable, they went after the kids. Original intent America has been unwritten in the minds of an overwhelming majority.

ALUmnus wrote:

jbock13 wrote:I'm waiting for the day where Americans will stand up begin to reform our government by voting socialists and marxists out of our Congress and Senate. To bring back fiscal responsibility to government. For the government to get out of my life whether I want to sell lemonade, or (gasp), not wear my seatbelt. (which by the way, I do)

Won't happen, unless a truly transcendant leader somes along. They had the most brilliant strategy imaginable, they went after the kids. Original intent America has been unwritten in the minds of an overwhelming majority.

You are correct ALUmnus. It's a sad thing.

jbock13 wrote:The rich are already paying their taxes. Who are you to say they should pay even more? So its okay if the government steals 40% of what they own? Will you be willing to pay that exact tax rate?

I'm so tired of hearing "the rich don't pay their fair share." 47% of Americans don't even pay taxes. So who's not paying their fair share?

Simple way to end all this class warfare nonsense, is a consumption tax. In Peru, 16% of what you pay is taxed. Nothing more, nothing less. Compare that to America's 30-40% corporate income tax, and you'll see why Peru's economy is growing faster than ours.

But then again, if we do a consumption tax, we won't have anymore Democrats demoguaging about social justice anymore now would we?

I say this in all respectufl kindness

I'm guessing you didn't actually read the articles or watch the videos, did you? For starters, its not just me, but Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, and others like them who are in the millionaires/billionaires club. Oh, BTW, I'm not one of those 47% who don't pay any income taxes.

Secondly, executive compensation rose 23%, compared to 3% or less for the average worker over the past 1-2 years. This while laying off thousands of workers. If they're going to be taking in more $$$ while laying off workers, then they should pay more for the military, infrastructure, etc. As for your "class warfare," point, I'm guessing you didn't read where I said we needed welfare reform, did you? Again, we should not make it more rewarding to sit at home and collect a check than it is to work a minimum wage job at McDonald's.

As far as the corporate income tax rate, that does need to be reduced in order to make us more competitive with the developing countries, especially the BRICs. The government also needs to get rid of excessive regulations as well.

Warren Buffett and Bill Gates are liberals. I hope you already knew that. Just cause two rich people say "raise my taxes", shouldn't make it so. Heck, if anything, they can shut up and make out a check to the Treasury (I'm sure they'll do that, right? )

Rest of what you said I don't have a problem with. Sorry if I came a bit unhindged, I just get tired of everyone who isn't rich, telling the rich what to do. It's their money. They earned it. They get to decide what to do with it.

Buffett and Gates are the best type of liberal who while lost are still trying to heal the sick and feed the hungry left that way by the governments of the world but also the church. Don't dog too hard on these guys cuz they are doing what they preach, even if they are lost.

And they are pretty smart guys so it's usually best to listen when they speak, instead of trying to discredit them simply as liberal. Buffett's point, which I agree with, was that he as one of the richest mean in the world shouldn't have a lower tax net rate than his secretary (which he did/does). In reality this probably doesn't mean raising tax brackets but closing off some deductions and credits currently allowed (by the way the tea-party gang is all against this).

Also agree that 47% of filers not paying a net tax is crap.

gates and buffet hate lazy dumb rich people. they despise them. if we raise taxes on the rich, the smart ones will not pay any increases. its the dumb ones who get fleeced.

raising taxes will only move our spending ceiling higher and not fix any problems.

politicians aren't concerned with the long term. its all about "what can i show you that i did so i can get reelected in a few years" thats all the game is. they don't vote based off whats best for the country but whats best for them.

the rich keep getting richer because the rich are generally smarter than shmoes like us. we are in a 3 year slump and the poor/middle class hunker down. the rich continue to make money (because they are smart) during tough economic times.

we can't cry foul because of it. thats life.

From the class of 09 wrote:
Also agree that 47% of filers not paying a net tax is crap.

they pay sales tax, state taxes and all that jazz. 40 some odd percent don't pay any income taxes. with a remodel project, a refinance, and a baby from last year(born the last day in november), i paid 17 dollars in income taxes last year.

RubberMallet wrote:

From the class of 09 wrote:
Also agree that 47% of filers not paying a net tax is crap.

they pay sales tax, state taxes and all that jazz. 40 some odd percent don't pay any income taxes. with a remodel project, a refinance, and a baby from last year(born the last day in november), i paid 17 dollars in income taxes last year.

Congrats on being a father and part of the 53% of American's who are contributing to the federal tax system. I'd still be in favor of getting ride of all those deductions and credits used to lower your tax bill.

i enjoy the benefits but probably wouldnt freak out if the dissappeared

From the class of 09 wrote:Buffett and Gates are the best type of liberal who while lost are still trying to heal the sick and feed the hungry left that way by the governments of the world but also the church. Don't dog too hard on these guys cuz they are doing what they preach, even if they are lost.

And they are pretty smart guys so it's usually best to listen when they speak, instead of trying to discredit them simply as liberal. Buffett's point, which I agree with, was that he as one of the richest mean in the world shouldn't have a lower tax net rate than his secretary (which he did/does). In reality this probably doesn't mean raising tax brackets but closing off some deductions and credits currently allowed (by the way the tea-party gang is all against this).
Also agree that 47% of filers not paying a net tax is crap.

First of all, 47% is not crap. Second, it is important that they are liberal. If they want their taxes raised, I say let them pay extra. Let them put their money where their mouth is. But if the government taxes them more, by your very own analogy, you'd then have people die of starvation and sickness because the government took their money to give to someone who makes $42,000 a year off government benefits (and btw you can do this being a single mom, 4 kids, counting WIC and Medicaid). Don't tell me it's not possible. I've seen it myself.

I agree with RM that the rich are smart with their money. I wouldn't say I'm rich, but I'm well off at a pretty early age. It wasn't that I was born into wealth. It was because I worked hard. I stayed home and cooked a pizza and watched baseball instead of going out with friends to the latest upscale restaurant. It's the small things we do in life that put us in charge of our money.

jbock13 wrote: First of all, 47% is not crap. Second, it is important that they are liberal. If they want their taxes raised, I say let them pay extra. Let them put their money where their mouth is. But if the government taxes them more, by your very own analogy, you'd then have people die of starvation and sickness because the government took their money to give to someone who makes $42,000 a year off government benefits (and btw you can do this being a single mom, 4 kids, counting WIC and Medicaid). Don't tell me it's not possible. I've seen it myself.

dude I was agreeing with you (that's why i said agree) with 47%. I said crap in admittedly ambiguous langage to reference the system that allows for 47% not to pay a federal tax. I'm pretty sure you agree with me hear but probably just wanted to argue.

Also the point Buffett was making was he felt he probably shouldn't pay a lower net tax rate than you (or his secretary). Do you think otherwise? Getting rid of all the credits and deductions solves this problem (as do any number of flat/fair tax ideas). Yes if Buffett gave more to the government he would have less to give to charities. He still thought it was unfair he had to pay so little in comparision to his secretary.

Buffett and Gates tend to be liberal. This is irrelevant still but I agree with the statement. I believe at Lib they would call this a red herring.

Welfare is a joke. Agree, good idea in theory that theory proved false we need to try something new.

Also I agree pizza is good. But baseball really needs to be watched live imo

Yeah, I screwed up reading your post about the 47%. My fault.

But the fact they are liberals do matter. I'm not saying, "disregard what they say." I say, "look at why they say what they say." The fact of the matter is, most liberals want to raise taxes on everyone else, but then not pay their share. You can look at the number of "tax-cheats" that work for Obama, or the many liberal activists who say that government needs more money. Then, when given the chance to pay extra, they never do, instead, they want you and I to pay more. The U.S Treasury already has a program where those who want to pay extra can do so. But surprisingly, they never do. That's why the fact that they are liberal matters to me.

I agree with you, and yes I wait until 7PM to fix dinner so I can watch my Rays. Or get mad at my pitchers in fantasy baseball when they give up a run.


Here's a good read on the myth that he pays more than his secretary.

http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2011/01/w ... t-his.html

Corporate taxes aren't individual taxes but ok, yes when Berk corp taxes are included Buffett's tax rate is higher.

While there are many liberals out there that are crooks cheats and liars in life and in taxes, Buffett is in the process of giving away $30 billion in the next few years (prob for the tax ride off) while Gates stepped down from CEO of MSFT to run his charitable organizion (again prob to avoid paying taxes).

So lets go ahead and assume these two guys are really trying to do the right thing in life. And while we both might disagree with them about what the right thing is. They seem very genuine about it and frankly more honest than many republicans/conservatives/people in washington. Buffett has said raise my taxes (and everyone in my bracket) so you can't really fit him in the sterio-type of a typical liberal.

How many times have these 2 written checks to the IRS for money that they didn't legally owe?