[jmdickens]

this has spurned off from another thread but I wanted to see what everyone else has to say and I promise I wont call you ignorant. lol

I have some hard feelings about the promise that a college education is the key to success. I had a decent job in Austin but I had an even better job in Austin working in construction and it did not require a college degree. I think of a college education like money, when you try to spread it out you devalue the goods.

http://www.businessinsider.com/facts-ab ... bt-2010-12#

This is just one excerpt but I hope everyone has something good to say about their college experience whether it was LU or a "sister of the poor" school like VTech.

[ALUmnus]

this has spurned off from another thread but I wanted to see what everyone else has to say and I promise I wont call you ignorant. lol

I have some hard feelings about the promise that a college education is the key to success. I had a decent job in Austin but I had an even better job in Austin working in construction and it did not require a college degree. I think of a college education like money, when you try to spread it out you devalue the goods.

http://www.businessinsider.com/facts-ab ... bt-2010-12#

This is just one excerpt but I hope everyone has something good to say about their college experience whether it was LU or a "sister of the poor" school like VTech.

I didn't read the article, but I agree with what you said. And it really varies depending on what your specific field of study is, but I don't feel like college is absolutely necessary for success. It should't be pushed on everyone, and it shouldn't be treated as a basic expectation for everyone.

[Hold My Own]

College is the new High School if that makes any sense...


There are no guarantees in life other than taxes and death.

[ATrain]

I was having this conversation with a couple people in Denver this past weekend. We all got master's degrees just to have something to set us apart from the flood of 4-year degree holders. It also looks like an MBA is becoming a standard diploma as well.

[From the class of 09]

Part of the problem is the mentality I saw with some students. I remember one of my classmates asking me why I cared if I got an A or a B on the final...his reasoning was that we both get the same piece of paper since either grade would pass the class. I literally was stunned and just rolled my eyes.

I don't know if this is common but people really need to realize before 2nd semester of senior year that having a degree doesn't mean they can get (or just as importantly hold) a job. The goal in going to school IMO is to obtain tools that will help you make money or at the least land a job. A subtle difference but really important IMO. I feel you take more from school as a whole when you think like that instead of thinking that the degree is the goal.

[LUconn]

Part of the problem is the mentality I saw with some students. I remember one of my classmates asking me why I cared if I got an A or a B on the final...his reasoning was that we both get the same piece of paper since either grade would pass the class. I literally was stunned and just rolled my eyes.

I don't know if this is common but people really need to realize before 2nd semester of senior year that having a degree doesn't mean they can get (or just as importantly hold) a job. The goal in going to school IMO is to obtain tools that will help you make money or at the least land a job. A subtle difference but really important IMO. I feel you take more from school as a whole when you think like that instead of thinking that the degree is the goal.

I guess it varies widely with your major, but I agree with your classmate. College is a hypothetical box to check off on your resume so you're not the first one cut. As someone who has been through countless interviews and been "in the top 3" for many but not gotten them here is what is important to landing the job

1. Experience
2. Experience
3. Experience
4. Being a woman or minority
5. Being a likable person
6. Being smart
7. Already working for that company

College is probably the best 4 years of your life, and I met my wife in college so it's hard for me to say I wish I didn't go to college, but I would so recommend a trade school to High Schoolers

[RubberMallet]

i agree with luconn. we are both business majors and the only thing college was was the stepping stone to even be interviewed. once you got to the interview process they never asked you about school for the most part.

other areas of study i assume are different.

[From the class of 09]

Well this is funny because I'm a business (finance) guy too... if all you got out of your college experience is a diploma you got ripped off.

[jcmanson]

I was a business finance major as well and I agree with lukon and mallet. It's just a box to check off. I now have an MBA. Another box to check off. The main thing companies look for as lukon said is experience, experience, experience. The sooner you know what field you want to be in, the sooner you should start working in that field even if it's something "under" you. Example: I'm in banking. I wish I was a teller for 4 years during college. That would have more than set me apart from those I was competing with coming out of school.

[From the class of 09]

So your investment, real estate, corp finance, and accounting class didn't help? If not I seriously think you got ripped off from LU. I'm not trying to downplay experience that helped me get my current job. But I never would have got the two interships or the tutoring gig (seriously the easiest job ever, do it if your in school) I did during school if I only had a 3.0 GPA either. Not just the teaching either the contacts you make in school and the people you meet. If not for the people coming in during investments class I probably wouldn't be where I'm at currently... and be looking to start my own company in a few years.

[jcmanson]

Sure they helped, but in what way? They didn't help me get my current job. Nor will they help me get any job in the future. The diploma helped me get my first job, then the diploma + experience helped me get my 2nd job. From here on out the education will only be a box to check off, it will be my experience that will have to set me apart. Any job I go for now, I will be competing with 100% college grads. The degree doesn't set any one of us apart. The experience will.

[From the class of 09]

All of these classes gave me a basis of knowledge to build upon. I would hope that your experience since has increased that knowledge as you work but the idea from my friend is...why do I need to understand time value of money beyond the final exam as I'll have the piece of paper that says I passed?

What I'm saying is that when you go to school the goal had better be to actually learn something and not just to get a piece of paper because when you're at your job and they start talking to you about lost opportunity cost or the Alternative Minimum Tax and you don't have a clue, you are not going to advance nearly as quickly if you keep your job at all.

So in summary, school if taken advantage of is way to build initial experience that we all seek. But as you say it will become a box to check as your real world experience grows.

[ATrain]

Here's what Coach Johnson told me:

"When a company hires you, you know nothing until they train you."

Yeah, you may get a few basic skills in your classes, but no class is going to teach you company processes, practices, etc. The degree just shows you're able to stick with something. When I finished school, I had a BS-Communications, MBA-International Business concentration, EMT-Basic certification w/ ITLS card and the only thing I kept hearing everywhere except the government was "overqualified," or "not enough experience." A degree might get you an entry level interview, but whatever you learned in your classes probably won't apply very much to whatever company's processes/practices.

[RubberMallet]

Well this is funny because I'm a business (finance) guy too... if all you got out of your college experience is a diploma you got ripped off.

i've held a couple business positions in each of the companies i've worked for and have not really applied what i used in college once....the things you learn in business classes are the things scott adams makes fun of on a daily basis.

[RubberMallet]

because when you're at your job and they start talking to you about lost opportunity cost or the Alternative Minimum Tax

this made me lol in my office and the guy across the hall looked at me funny.

[SuperJon]

You may learn something in the classes, but learning them doesn't translate into making great grades. It's completely possible to learn something and not care enough to study for the tests or do great on the projects. You still know the material but your grade may not represent that.

[Sly Fox]

Nothing really has changed about the fact that if all you do is concentrate on classes while in school you probably will have major problems landing in a career after school. Internships & work study programs are far more valuable for landing jobs than a degree. And after your first post-degree job, the sheepskin is most certainly a check the box deal in nearly every field. Yeah, you need a degree to qualify for certain positions. But most hiring managers are more interested in seeing your results from your last workplace.

And I agree that Bachelor degrees are the new HS diplomas & post-grad degrees are the new Bachelors. But with distance learning, it seems everybody has a Master's degree these days.

[Hold My Own]

I dont think it's a matter of being "ripped off" by your institution for saying real life experience is often times more educational then actual eduction. I thought this was pretty much common knowledge that real life/life experience is the ultimate educator....maybe not. Heck life experience can even get you college credits at a masters level!

[TDDance234]

In ministry, the #1 thing that has opened doors for me has been my degree from Liberty. People are always curious about Liberty and my experiences there. I did get my MAR and am working through an M.Div through the online program and most people have had the same experience. I can't vouch for other fields but in terms of ministry, going to Liberty has really opened up a lot of opportunities that otherwise wouldn't have been there.

[SuperJon]

In ministry, the #1 thing that has opened doors for me has been my degree from Liberty. People are always curious about Liberty and my experiences there. I did get my MAR and am working through an M.Div through the online program and most people have had the same experience. I can't vouch for other fields but in terms of ministry, going to Liberty has really opened up a lot of opportunities that otherwise wouldn't have been there.

But that's having the degree, not the GPA, right? This guy is trying to say you're crazy for not trying to get the highest GPA possible.

[From the class of 09]

In ministry, the #1 thing that has opened doors for me has been my degree from Liberty. People are always curious about Liberty and my experiences there. I did get my MAR and am working through an M.Div through the online program and most people have had the same experience. I can't vouch for other fields but in terms of ministry, going to Liberty has really opened up a lot of opportunities that otherwise wouldn't have been there.

But that's having the degree, not the GPA, right? This guy is trying to say you're crazy for not trying to get the highest GPA possible.

Maybe not the highest but if you are learning in class you'll at least have a decent GPA...

[SuperJon]

Not necessarily. You could pay attention and take a ton of notes but because you're involved in a job or a internship or other things and didn't have time to write a good paper or do a good project.

[From the class of 09]

Not necessarily. You could pay attention and take a ton of notes but because you're involved in a job or a internship or other things and didn't have time to write a good paper or do a good project.

Rarely is this the case...I worked more than full time (45-55hrs) my last semester and got pretty good grades... although I did have to cut out some of the fun activities out. I'm not saying you're going to have a 4.0 but I wouldn't hire a kid who doesn't show he can at least manage his own time in an effective maner.

[SuperJon]

I made C's and the occasional D in classes simply because I didn't care and didn't want to do the work. I made mainly A's and an occasional B in my classes in my major because I cared about them.

I graduated with right around a 3.0.

Does that mean I didn't learn anything in undergrad?

Again in grad school, I was busy and didn't have time to put the work in to make the best grades and graduated with a 3.0. Does that mean I didn't learn?

Either way, what mattered was I had job offers coming out of both undergrad and grad school. My GPA never came up in any interview.

[From the class of 09]

I made C's and the occasional D in classes simply because I didn't care and didn't want to do the work. I made mainly A's and an occasional B in my classes in my major because I cared about them.

I graduated with right around a 3.0.

Does that mean I didn't learn anything in undergrad?

Again in grad school, I was busy and didn't have time to put the work in to make the best grades and graduated with a 3.0. Does that mean I didn't learn?

Either way, what mattered was I had job offers coming out of both undergrad and grad school. My GPA never came up in any interview.

GPA probably didn't come up because it was decent. Most people would agree that a B average is a good grade (unless you hang out in Cider's classes ). Especially when you look at your major specific classes and it went up.