[Ed Dantes]

Here's an interesting ethical question. I'll weigh in later.

A child is suffering from cancer, but his parents don't want him to have chemotherapy for the disease. A judge intervenes. Is it right?

This is hardly the only case. A few years ago, a girl had a treatable illness, but her parents refused to give her medicine because they believed God would heal her. Her condition worsened, and she died. The parents had child endangerment charges levied against them. I don't know how it ended.

So... does the state have the right to intervene? Discuss.

Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
By AMY FORLITI, Associated Press Writer Amy Forliti, Associated Press Writer 1 hr 14 mins ago

MINNEAPOLIS – A Minnesota judge ruled Friday that a 13-year-old cancer patient must be evaluated by a doctor to determine if the boy would benefit from restarting chemotherapy over his parents' objections.

In a 58-page ruling, Brown County District Judge John Rodenberg found that Daniel Hauser has been "medically neglected" by his parents, Colleen and Anthony Hauser, and was in need of child protection services.

While he allowed Daniel to stay with his parents, the judge gave the Hausers until Tuesday to get an updated chest X-ray for their son and select an oncologist.

If the evaluation shows the cancer had advanced to a point where chemotherapy and radiation would no longer help, the judge said, he would not order the boy to undergo treatment.

The judge wrote that Daniel has only a "rudimentary understanding at best of the risks and benefits of chemotherapy. ... he does not believe he is ill currently. The fact is that he is very ill currently."

Daniel's court-appointed attorney, Philip Elbert, called the decision unfortunate.

[RubberMallet]

its absolute bs...but what can you expect from the state that had its majority of voters put al franken in the senate.

[cheerbren]

Nice. I return and suddenly my whole state is full of Fraken fans. I guess he won by a few hundred votes, but I am off the subject. I can not imagine watching my child die and not doing anything about it, but unsure how to feel about this ruling. I pray for the parents to be happy about this and see it as what is supposed to happen.

[RubberMallet]

i would believe in gvt intervention if the parent were unfit. but i dont' see or haven't seen much evidence of that. you almost think that just believing in that conjob would deem you unfit as a parent however, give an inch and they'll take a mile, it will be only a matter of time that our christian beliefs are called a conjob.

[LUconn]

Can they move out of state to avoid the ruling?

[ALUmnus]

This same exact thing happened in Virginia a year or two ago, so it's not just Minnesota. And in that case the kid was in his late teens and didn't want treatment. I can't remember, but I think they ended up making him take treatment.

[RubberMallet]

Can they move out of state to avoid the ruling?

it happened in utah and they took him out of the state and they were charged with kidnapping.....this happened like 4 or 5 years ago....cancer too it think....and wouldn't you know it? the kid came out ok and is still alive today cancer free...if i can find the story i'll post it.

[ATrain]

This same exact thing happened in Virginia a year or two ago, so it's not just Minnesota. And in that case the kid was in his late teens and didn't want treatment. I can't remember, but I think they ended up making him take treatment.

The ruling got overturned, so the teen didn't have to take it.

[rueful]

how come kids millions of kids die in america every year and the government doesnt intervene then? just because they havent breathed oxygen? the liberals are so inconsistent and ridiculous

[RubberMallet]

how come kids millions of kids die in america every year and the government doesnt intervene then? just because they havent breathed oxygen? the liberals are so inconsistent and ridiculous

i made this exact point in another thread...of the people that are screaming for gvt intervention, i'd say a good majority of them are abortion advocates...its completely stupid...

[scuzdriver]

There are other methods of treating cancer than chemo. Treatment should be left up to the family, not big brother.

[Rooster Cogburn]

100% agree Scuz. Look, everyone makes choices for their kids everyday based on their beliefs and knowledge that the Gov. may not agree with. This is a point of who is in control of our kids. This court thinks they are. This is very bad precedent, and could go further very easily. Watch out.

[flames1971]

how come kids millions of kids die in america every year and the government doesnt intervene then? just because they havent breathed oxygen? the liberals are so inconsistent and ridiculous

You're telling me I hear that from my Aunt all the time.

[Ed Dantes]

Devil's Advocate: How many people here wanted to state to intervene in regards to the Terri Schiavo situation?

[rueful]

is it different if the kid says "I want it" and the parents say "no" and the court ruling to give the kid the drug, as opposed to the kid saying no dont want it, the parents saying no, dont want it, and the court saying do it anyway?

I think Schiavo was a little different of a situation (situational ethics as homeboy on the thread about LU volleyball attire says) but regardless, if im a potato like that, and there is no hope for me, then whatever

[scuzdriver]

There would have been no debate at all about Terry S without science keeping her going. Was she really alive? 40 years ago she would have died without all the fanfare surrounding her circumstance because there would have been nothing to keep her hanging on. I wonder sometimes if medical technoligy is really for the good of the patient or the profit of the hospital/care facility.

[Ed Dantes]

Answering my own question...

We all thought Schiavo had a chance at recovery. She wasn't a vegetable in the sense that she could sustain herself without life support. Her brain may have been tapioca, but we don't know.

The problem with that situation was her husband was a slime ball. For several years after she was infirm, he didn't say anything about Terri's wish to die. It wasn't until after he began a relationship with another woman that he began saying that Terri mentioned, in passing, that she wanted to die if in a vegetative state. Michael Schiavo wanted Terri to die, so he could marry a new woman -- so he fought as hard as possible to make sure Terri died, even though Terri's parents wanted to keep her alive and offered to pay. As it turns out, the courts sided with Michael, Terri died, and Michael re-married.

[cheerbren]

Well, it appears that the mother and the child have vanished and are not adhering to the courts ruling. I am not sure how I feel but this is wrong to flee a court order.

[El Scorcho]

I have the feeling I could ignite this thread into an inferno with a single question.

I think I'll sit on it until things get really boring around here.

[RagingTireFire]

I'm going with the state on this one and I'm not playing devil's advocate.

What kind of parent finds out that their child has a wasting fatal disease and then refuses to allow the child to undergo treatment that might cure them but instead chooses to let them die a slow painful death? I see no reason on earth or in heaven to force a child to needlessly suffer that. Take the kid away and give them to somebody who gives a rat's jerk about them.

[matshark]

Devil's Advocate: How many people here wanted to state to intervene in regards to the Terri Schiavo situation?

not me. the gov't's job is not to protect people from themselves. if someone has a disease and doesn't want to get the normal treatment for it, that is their right. just like it should be the right of every parent to determine if they want their kids to have vaccinations or not. (esp. because there is HUGE evidence that childhood vaccinations are actually CAUSING autism - then again, what do you expect when you inject aluminum and mercury into babies and small children?)

[southern_reckoner]

If this was an adult making the decision for themselves, then it would be their right to refuse treatment (with a 95.3% cure rate http://www.leukemia-lymphoma.org/all_pa ... em_id=8312). The adult would almost certainly die from Hodgkin's Lymphoma, but that is still their right. However, a child does not have the same rights as an adult. Would you allow a child to bleed to death outside of a hospital even though the parent does not believe that the doctors inside know what is best for their child? Or as an adult and I do not think there is anything wrong with leaving a small child in the car with the windows rolled up and an herbal concoction to prevent heat exposure/dehydration in their bottle. The child dies. It is the same thing. It just happens faster than not treating Hodgkin's Lymphoma.

As a society we have a certain responsibility to those who cannot make decisions for themselves. Forget that line of thinking. Maybe we should follow the Spartan way of thinking. That child is unfit, it is my right to expose the child.

BTW: matshark: I do not know where you got your information about the vaccines causing autism. The following http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/vaccines.htm and http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/docume ... tudies.pdf clearly show there is no link between autism and vaccines. However, there is a definite link between not getting vaccines and getting unpleasant diseases.

Also: RubberMallet: I do not wish to see Al Franken in the Senate either. But that is a non sequitur. It has nothing to do with this case. The courts would rule the same with or without Al Franken in the the Senate.

[RagingTireFire]

(esp. because there is HUGE evidence that childhood vaccinations are actually CAUSING autism - then again, what do you expect when you inject aluminum and mercury into babies and small children?)

That is one of the more ridiculous urban legends that I've ever heard.

[RubberMallet]

Also: RubberMallet: I do not wish to see Al Franken in the Senate either. But that is a non sequitur. It has nothing to do with this case. The courts would rule the same with or without Al Franken in the the Senate.

thanks for that genius, but pointing out the type of people we are talking about here is quite "sequitur" and has EVERYTHING to do with this case.

[RubberMallet]

(esp. because there is HUGE evidence that childhood vaccinations are actually CAUSING autism - then again, what do you expect when you inject aluminum and mercury into babies and small children?)

That is one of the more ridiculous urban legends that I've ever heard.

i rofled....and we only did a few of the vaccinations.