[phoenix]

More Christian knockoffs of mainstream, popular games?? See what the Guitar Praise people have to say to MTv ....

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/09/ ... stian-gta/

[Hold My Own]

What you dont stop people in traffic pull them out of their cars and hand them a Bible track and then clean their windshield?



Sinner

[RagingTireFire]

More Christian knockoffs of mainstream, popular games?? See what the Guitar Praise people have to say to MTv ....

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/09/ ... stian-gta/

What's the problem? You would rather your kid played GTA?

[phoenix]

I'd rather Christians come out with something original, and stop ripping off pop culture years after the fact. We haven't had an original thought in years, and I'm sick of it. There are creative people who are Christians, but the only people who are putting out Christian (insert name of fad here) are people who want to rip off existing franchises to make a quick buck.

[ALUmnus]

So true. It results in things such as this:

ZAP!

[Hold My Own]

More Christian knockoffs of mainstream, popular games?? See what the Guitar Praise people have to say to MTv ....

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/09/ ... stian-gta/

What's the problem? You would rather your kid played GTA?

Of all people I thought for sure you'd blast them for doing this and being unoriginal

[RagingTireFire]

I have absolutely no problem with "Christian versions" of products that mainstream culture has made popular. My wife works with a tweens group at our local church and the most popular activity they have is the Christian version of Dance Dance Revolution. Frankly, I'd rather that be those kids' soundtrack than a lot of other things.
Secondly, the fact is that primarily Chrisitan companies often don't have the resources to take chances on originality as often as larger secular companies do or as much as we might like them to. Further, -- let's face it -- Christian culture isn't exactly a breeding ground for new ideas. In my experience, the fastest way to get shot down with something is to take it to church.

[belcherboy]

I too am all for plagerizing what works in our culture. Why recreate the wheel? I hope they come out with a christian Rock Band type game. That is by far the most popular game in our game room. The kids would love to sing popular christian songs if they were available.

I'm a children's pastor and we use Disney as our measuring stick. The kids watch Camp Rock, HSM, Hannah Montana, etc. So we try and implement these into our skits, into our video production, into our monologues, etc. I play the music and music videos at times in between services, or after services.

Here is one of my latest videos: (yeah I play all the parts and do all the dancing. Please be kind with references to my heterosexuality)

I find it easier to mimic an industry that consistantly spends hundreds of billions of dollars entertaining kids. The kids love it, and I think they are learning good Biblical principals and morals through it.

[phoenix]

Someone once said "If it's Christian, it ought to be better." Wonder what he'd think of these cheap knockoffs. Is this the best we can do -- rip off what pop culture is doing a few years after the fact? My daughter watches all the Disney stuff, too; not sure how I'd feel about someone coming out with a Christian version of HSM, Hannah Montanna, or Camp Rock all of a sudden. If all we can do is rip off the prevailing culture in our quest to be "relevant," then we're in sad shape.


Another entry in this category -- http://www.1in3trinityenergydrink.com/

Christian energy drinks. Because you just KNOW that Vault is of the devil

[RagingTireFire]

not sure how I'd feel about someone coming out with a Christian version of HSM, Hannah Montanna, or Camp Rock all of a sudden.

I'm guessing you've never heard of the Jonas Brothers? I would also suppose that you don't like Veggie Tales since it's just a cheap knockoff of all things Pixar. Frankly, as for what "someone once said", when it comes to entertainment options for my kids, I'll settle for simply adequate and the more adequate options I have the better.

[MacGeek]

not sure how I'd feel about someone coming out with a Christian version of HSM, Hannah Montanna, or Camp Rock all of a sudden.

I'm guessing you've never heard of the Jonas Brothers? I would also suppose that you don't like Veggie Tales since it's just a cheap knockoff of all things Pixar. Frankly, as for what "someone once said", when it comes to entertainment options for my kids, I'll settle for simply adequate and the more adequate options I have the better.

bullcrap... veggie tales are awesome!

[phoenix]

not sure how I'd feel about someone coming out with a Christian version of HSM, Hannah Montanna, or Camp Rock all of a sudden.

I'm guessing you've never heard of the Jonas Brothers? I would also suppose that you don't like Veggie Tales since it's just a cheap knockoff of all things Pixar. Frankly, as for what "someone once said", when it comes to entertainment options for my kids, I'll settle for simply adequate and the more adequate options I have the better.

Personally, I love the Veggies -- we have pretty much all of them since the Jonah movie. And they're a perfect example of what I'm talking about -- Christians using technology to do something creative. I'm not talking about using a technique or technology that someone else developed -- I'm talking about ripping off an entire idea and throwing a Christian stamp on it to appeal to a marketing demographic. I'm talking about making Jesus junk that Christians buy not because it's any good, but because it's the Christian alternative.

And I'm guessing your reading comprehension is not so good, re: the Jonas Brothers, since I was talking about all things Disney (and they're certainly a Disney property). They're not a knock-off -- they're a product. And their music is about as creative as anything else that pop radio plays today; my daughter likes them, but I'm not impressed.

Unfortunately, we do have to settle for adequate. What I'm hoping for is Christians who are willing to do better than good enough for the glory of God. Good enough isn't doing it for God's glory -- we're supposed to give Him our best. We're not stepping up to the plate.

[RagingTireFire]

And I'm guessing your reading comprehension is not so good, re: the Jonas Brothers, since I was talking about all things Disney (and they're certainly a Disney property). They're not a knock-off -- they're a product. And their music is about as creative as anything else that pop radio plays today; my daughter likes them, but I'm not impressed.

Unfortunately, we do have to settle for adequate. What I'm hoping for is Christians who are willing to do better than good enough for the glory of God. Good enough isn't doing it for God's glory -- we're supposed to give Him our best. We're not stepping up to the plate.

Personal shots aside, the Jonas Brothers are indeed a product and they are also a knock-off in that everything Disney does is a knock-off of something they or others have already done.

I don't know why you insist that everything Christian be completely original. I don't know if it's even possible to come up with anything completely original in this day and age. I challenge you to find one decent idea that hasn't already been done by mainstream culture.

Furthermore, we accept adaptations every day in every area of life whether it be the cars we drive, the food we eat or the entertainment we choose. The fact is that human beings are far more comfortable with "knock-offs" than we are with originality. In fact, I submit that if some enterprising young Christian did come up with some brilliant and completely original idea, it would be accepted by very few, and certainly not by the Christian audience.

Finally, who are you to decide what "our best" is? Are you designing quality games for our kids? Are you providing new avenues of worship? Are you doing something that could be called "better" than the mainstream culture? If not, your complaint is nothing more than spiritual snobbery and, until you are, quit whining about those who are actually doing something and you do better.

[belcherboy]

Someone once said "If it's Christian, it ought to be better." Wonder what he'd think of these cheap knockoffs. Is this the best we can do -- rip off what pop culture is doing a few years after the fact? My daughter watches all the Disney stuff, too; not sure how I'd feel about someone coming out with a Christian version of HSM, Hannah Montanna, or Camp Rock all of a sudden. If all we can do is rip off the prevailing culture in our quest to be "relevant," then we're in sad shape.


Another entry in this category -- http://www.1in3trinityenergydrink.com/

Christian energy drinks. Because you just KNOW that Vault is of the devil

I guess it all depends on what you're talking about when discussing "ought to be better". I work with kids and as hard as I try to make things entertaining, fun, interactive, while teaching Biblical principals, it is a David and Goliath type battle when compared to what they get on cable tv or at the movie theater/home theater. We do some FUN things with superheros, cartoon characters, and music that was all created and made popular by someone else. Personally, I don't know if I could create what they create. I certainly don't have the money, staff, and time to mess with it like Disney/Viacom and other like companies do. Perhaps someone has the money to create a Christian version of Disney/Pixar studio. Of course when the Christian world tried to create that type studio (Veggie Tales) they went bankrupt and were forced to sell to a secular company.

Again, if they could make a guitar hero/rock band that played Christian music, that would be AWESOME! Our middle school, high school, and college kids LOVE rock band!

[phoenix]

I don't know why you insist that everything Christian be completely original. I don't know if it's even possible to come up with anything completely original in this day and age. I challenge you to find one decent idea that hasn't already been done by mainstream culture.

Furthermore, we accept adaptations every day in every area of life whether it be the cars we drive, the food we eat or the entertainment we choose. The fact is that human beings are far more comfortable with "knock-offs" than we are with originality. In fact, I submit that if some enterprising young Christian did come up with some brilliant and completely original idea, it would be accepted by very few, and certainly not by the Christian audience.

I'm not talking about adaptations. I'm talking about deliberate knockoffs. Christian Guitar Hero, Christian energy drinks, Christian breath mints. I'm talking about being two or three years behind what secular culture is doing. I'm talking about being reactive rather than proactive. I'm talking about building a Christian ghetto that we all hang out in, drinking our Christian lattes in our Christian coffee shops, listening to Christian music on our Christian MP3 players. Drinking our milk from our Christian cows.

Once upon a time, Christians were the ones creating art, creating music. Christians were the ones making advances. Now we're content with waiting to see what is popular, and copying that. We're content with that, rather than doing the most with the talent and creativity that God gave us. The US Patent Office was once thought to be obsolete; I think it was back in the '50s that people believed that everything that could be invented, had been. We've come a long way since then. There are still people who are being innovative, and creative. People are still doing new things, building off what was done before.

And yeah, I am making efforts to do that. I'm not the most creative person -- can't draw, paint, or sing worth anything. I can write a little, but not enough to have a book published by any major publishing house. So it takes a little more work to do it. I probably won't get rich or famous doing it, but that isn't the goal. My goal is to give my best to God.

I just refuse to believe that the best we can do is copy what everyone else did three years ago. If that's spiritual snobbery, then so be it; if it's Christian, it ought to be better. We're doing it for God, after all, not for man. God expects our best, and I don't think we're giving it to Him.

[belcherboy]

I don't know why you insist that everything Christian be completely original. I don't know if it's even possible to come up with anything completely original in this day and age. I challenge you to find one decent idea that hasn't already been done by mainstream culture.

Furthermore, we accept adaptations every day in every area of life whether it be the cars we drive, the food we eat or the entertainment we choose. The fact is that human beings are far more comfortable with "knock-offs" than we are with originality. In fact, I submit that if some enterprising young Christian did come up with some brilliant and completely original idea, it would be accepted by very few, and certainly not by the Christian audience.

I'm not talking about adaptations. I'm talking about deliberate knockoffs. Christian Guitar Hero, Christian energy drinks, Christian breath mints. I'm talking about being two or three years behind what secular culture is doing. I'm talking about being reactive rather than proactive. I'm talking about building a Christian ghetto that we all hang out in, drinking our Christian lattes in our Christian coffee shops, listening to Christian music on our Christian MP3 players. Drinking our milk from our Christian cows.

Once upon a time, Christians were the ones creating art, creating music. Christians were the ones making advances. Now we're content with waiting to see what is popular, and copying that. We're content with that, rather than doing the most with the talent and creativity that God gave us. The US Patent Office was once thought to be obsolete; I think it was back in the '50s that people believed that everything that could be invented, had been. We've come a long way since then. There are still people who are being innovative, and creative. People are still doing new things, building off what was done before.

And yeah, I am making efforts to do that. I'm not the most creative person -- can't draw, paint, or sing worth anything. I can write a little, but not enough to have a book published by any major publishing house. So it takes a little more work to do it. I probably won't get rich or famous doing it, but that isn't the goal. My goal is to give my best to God.

I just refuse to believe that the best we can do is copy what everyone else did three years ago. If that's spiritual snobbery, then so be it; if it's Christian, it ought to be better. We're doing it for God, after all, not for man. God expects our best, and I don't think we're giving it to Him.

I'm with ya on the energy drinks and breath mints (so is probably 95% of the board), but why is it a bad thing for someone to put out a Christian version of the most popular video game? In particular a game that is based off the most popular music over the past 50 years. Or a cartoon that is inspired by the most dynamic animation company?

I also want to know where in the bible it says that "if it's Christian, it ought to be better". I don't believe you'll find anywhere where God "commands" us to be on the cutting edge of pop culture. I applaud those who are, but I'm not about to criticize those who aren't. I have a christian school that is in my area that believed they ought to be the best sports program around. So much so, that they tied their sports achievements with their christian identity, making failure in sports a measurement of their level of christianity. The result was that they were hated by the secular and private schools they played. Why? Because they thought they ought to be better than every school they played and whined/complained/showed poor sportsmanship when they were not better. You'd feel like you were playing the "Cobra Kia" from the Karate Kid when you played them. They'd run up the scores late in games, and made sure you understood that they were superior. They've won state championships, but very few from the outside think they are better Christians for it. Especially those who are not christians.

IMO the "if it's Christian, it ought to be better" isn't a great thing to live our lives by. My opinion is, "If it is Christian, in needs to be relevant, exciting, and Biblically based." If we do it to the best of our abilities, it will be better because God will bless it. Again, I don't see why taking someone else's idea(s) and morphing it into something Christian is wrong or makes something cheaper. I mean c'mon now, Jerry stole his idea of a dynamic Christian sports program from Notre Dame, and a cult believing school like BYU.

Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but it always drove me nuts as a kid to be told that we need to be completely different from the world around us. Some think that Christians should almost be borderline Amish when it comes to how we do church. If we mimic or use things from pop culture, we are playing into the devil's hands. IMO it made much of my generation uncomfortable in church. I agree there is a fine line, and many churches are going over that line trying to be "hip and relevant", but it would be just as wrong to be on the other side IMO. Ok, rant over!!

[newandimproved]

for the record there are many christian artists that are on the forefront of the music industry. A lot of it is terrible, but its not nearly as bad as it once was, and some of it is very, very good....

[belcherboy]

for the record there are many christian artists that are on the forefront of the music industry. A lot of it is terrible, but its not nearly as bad as it once was, and some of it is very, very good....

This is the pessimist in me, so forgive me if it comes across wrong, but who would those artists be? They may be on the forefront of the Christian music industry, but would they really be considered on the forefront of the music industry? If they are, are they distinctly christian?

I agree thought that there are some AWESOME christian musicians out there!!!

[phoenix]

"If it's Christian, it ought to be better" is a slogan I had drilled into my head at college about 20 years ago. Guy who said it believed that if we were doing what we were doing for God, we ought to be doing it better than people who are doing it for lesser motivations. I'll leave it up to the board to debate over whether Jerry was right about that. I think the Bible's pretty clear that we're supposed to do everything we do to the glory of God -- that means giving our best, not what is left over.

As far as Guitar Praise goes, I think we could have done better by simply getting permission to release a song pack, charging $30 and using that money to develop something original. And we'd have been MUCH better off doing it a couple years ago, rather than waiting to see how popular it was before jumping on the bandwagon. It's a shame that knockoffs are all we've got. As I mentioned, once upon a time Christians were the ones doing creative things artistically, and we've given that up.

AND I agree that there are some outstanding Christian bands out there, that are doing new and creative things. Many of those aren't on the big labels (which shows that there's at least one instance where the Christian version of something is right up to date with the mainstream version), so people don't hear about them. But they're out there.

[ALUmnus]

for the record there are many christian artists that are on the forefront of the music industry. A lot of it is terrible, but its not nearly as bad as it once was, and some of it is very, very good....

This is the pessimist in me, so forgive me if it comes across wrong, but who would those artists be? They may be on the forefront of the Christian music industry, but would they really be considered on the forefront of the music industry? If they are, are they distinctly christian?

I agree thought that there are some AWESOME christian musicians out there!!!

Obviously, you are not familiar with Sonseed:

[belcherboy]

"If it's Christian, it ought to be better" is a slogan I had drilled into my head at college about 20 years ago. Guy who said it believed that if we were doing what we were doing for God, we ought to be doing it better than people who are doing it for lesser motivations. I'll leave it up to the board to debate over whether Jerry was right about that. I think the Bible's pretty clear that we're supposed to do everything we do to the glory of God -- that means giving our best, not what is left over.

As far as Guitar Praise goes, I think we could have done better by simply getting permission to release a song pack, charging $30 and using that money to develop something original. And we'd have been MUCH better off doing it a couple years ago, rather than waiting to see how popular it was before jumping on the bandwagon. It's a shame that knockoffs are all we've got. As I mentioned, once upon a time Christians were the ones doing creative things artistically, and we've given that up.

AND I agree that there are some outstanding Christian bands out there, that are doing new and creative things. Many of those aren't on the big labels (which shows that there's at least one instance where the Christian version of something is right up to date with the mainstream version), so people don't hear about them. But they're out there.

I agree that a song pack makes MUCH more sense, but that is using someone else's idea, isn't it? There is nothing innovative about that idea, nor is that living up to the "if it's Christian, it ought to be better" mentality. I love the saying, but I still don't think we are judged by whether we are doing something better than someone else. I heard Jerry say it probably 100 times while at Liberty, but I think it is foolish to think that we must be more innovative or cutting edge than those in the secular world. Especially in the realm of pop culture.

Again who is this "one instance" of a cutting edge band since there are many to choose from. I love Christian music, but I'm not going to be too critical of bands that sound very similar to secular ones.

[newandimproved]

for the record there are many christian artists that are on the forefront of the music industry. A lot of it is terrible, but its not nearly as bad as it once was, and some of it is very, very good....

This is the pessimist in me, so forgive me if it comes across wrong, but who would those artists be? They may be on the forefront of the Christian music industry, but would they really be considered on the forefront of the music industry? If they are, are they distinctly christian?

I agree thought that there are some AWESOME christian musicians out there!!!

anberlin and switchfoot come to mind first, but there are plenty..and no, they are not distinctly Christian, but they are within the Christian music industry. There is a lot more music within the Christian industry that is much, much, much better then it has ever been...some of it sucks...but from where I sit, a lot of music in general sucks these days.

[belcherboy]

for the record there are many christian artists that are on the forefront of the music industry. A lot of it is terrible, but its not nearly as bad as it once was, and some of it is very, very good....

This is the pessimist in me, so forgive me if it comes across wrong, but who would those artists be? They may be on the forefront of the Christian music industry, but would they really be considered on the forefront of the music industry? If they are, are they distinctly christian?

I agree thought that there are some AWESOME christian musicians out there!!!

anberlin and switchfoot come to mind first, but there are plenty..and no, they are not distinctly Christian, but they are within the Christian music industry. There is a lot more music within the Christian industry that is much, much, much better then it has ever been...some of it sucks...but from where I sit, a lot of music in general sucks these days.

I TOTALLY agree, and think Christian music has never been better. My point is that they have learned, and been inspired, and even mimicked those in the secular world. I have NO problem with that! I look at bands like Reliant K, Toby Mac, and a host of others that are AWESOME and have written some AWESOME music, but they mimicked what they saw was popular w/ bands in pop culture. They have gained notoriety in the secular world because of it and I think that is a great thing!

My contention is with the original poster saying that "Christians come out with something original, and stop ripping off pop culture". I'm all for them copying a good idea and making it christian. If it is cheesy, it will die. If it is good, it should thrive.