[Sly Fox]

Senate passes $700B 'sweetened' rescue package

By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS and CHARLES BABINGTON, Associated Press Writers

WASHINGTON - After one spectacular failure, the $700 billion financial industry bailout found a second life Wednesday, winning lopsided passage in the Senate and gaining ground in the House, where Republicans opposition softened.

Senators loaded the economic rescue bill with tax breaks and other sweeteners before passing it by a wide margin, 74-25, a month before the presidential and congressional elections.

Click Here for Full Story

Next up is the vote in the House ...

[flamesbball84]

bailing these folks out gives no incentive for future companies to NOT engage in the practices that led them to fail in the first place. the government will set the precedent that it's okay to horribly mismanage your company because the government will bail you out when it all blows up in your face.

[Realist]

We are stuck between a rock and a hard place, to put it simply. I definitely agree in principle that we shouldn't be bailing these morons out, but if we don't do something, the consequence will be enormous to nearly everyone.

[RubberMallet]

We are stuck between a rock and a hard place, to put it simply. I definitely agree in principle that we shouldn't be bailing these morons out, but if we don't do something, the consequence will be enormous to nearly everyone.

correct. the morons who borrowed too much money aren't the only ones with loans at these banks. people should actually read the bill before they head out onto the street waiting for the gvt vans to stop and start throwing money in the streets.

[Hold My Own]

I just got off the phone with my former room mate that now works for the Vangard Group....he said people dont realize how close we are to another great depression it's sad


Not sure what that adds to this conversation....thinking about it, none....but I just thought I'd share

[flamesbball84]

We are stuck between a rock and a hard place, to put it simply. I definitely agree in principle that we shouldn't be bailing these morons out, but if we don't do something, the consequence will be enormous to nearly everyone.

correct. the morons who borrowed too much money aren't the only ones with loans at these banks. people should actually read the bill before they head out onto the street waiting for the gvt vans to stop and start throwing money in the streets.

it's nearly 500 pages now. i bet a lot of people in congress haven't even read the thing in its entirety.

[Hold My Own]

We are stuck between a rock and a hard place, to put it simply. I definitely agree in principle that we shouldn't be bailing these morons out, but if we don't do something, the consequence will be enormous to nearly everyone.

correct. the morons who borrowed too much money aren't the only ones with loans at these banks. people should actually read the bill before they head out onto the street waiting for the gvt vans to stop and start throwing money in the streets.

it's nearly 500 pages now. i bet a lot of people in congress haven't even read the thing in its entirety.

Are you kidding me? Try NONE have read the thing.


Why do you think you see so many interns running around up there!

[RubberMallet]

meanwhile warren buffet is on charlie rose saying everything will be fine. the taxpayers aren't spending 700 billion dollars they are investing it.

[Ed Dantes]

Usually you get something back when you invest something.

[flamesbball84]

Usually you get something back when you invest something.

ah but the tricky thing here is this: the taxpayers aren't spending the money, the government is. the government is just taking the money so they can spend it.

[RubberMallet]

Usually you get something back when you invest something.

um. the gvt is using 700 billion to by 3 trillion dollars in mortgages they are paying for them at quite a discounted rate. they'll get plenty back. buffet said himself he'd like to get in on the action.

[olldflame]

Jim Kramer said the same thing. I think some people are under the impression that all of these loans are going to go into default. This is simply not the case. Nobody wants to lose their house, and the fact is most of these mortgage holders are going to make their payments. This arangement gives increased flexibility to restructure those loans so they can do so. Like Realist, part of me would like to see there be more consequences to the irresponsible parties who brought this about, but too many "innocent" people would pay a dear price for that.

[Rooster Cogburn]

I am just so glad that our Government is coming in to rescue me from all of my failures while I was running all of those huge financila institutions. I evidently did such a poor job. I didn't even know I was involved, but everyone is saying the these brave senators are rescuing me, so I must have done something wrong in order to need rescuing.

PA-LEASE!

These financial criminals and the govt. are in cahoots on this whole thing, and now they are rescuing me? HA! 2 words SUB-PRIME! Morons!

[ALUmnus]

I just got off the phone with my former room mate that now works for the Vangard Group....he said people dont realize how close we are to another great depression it's sad


Not sure what that adds to this conversation....thinking about it, none....but I just thought I'd share

The thing is, you have equally qualified and trustworthy people arguing both sides. Some think this bailout is the greatest thing and absolutely necessary or we'll all be in the soup line. Others think it's the worst possible thing we could do right now. Not that I'm qualified, but I'm with the latter group. I just don't think you can abandon your core principles because of fear/confusion/uncertainty, and one of those core principles in this case is the Constitution and the very basics of this republic. I think there is this perception out there, perpetuated by the media, that we're all hurting. People in this economy haven't been hurting in a long time, and this mess hasn't changed that. I work for a very large financial institution, and their considering some changes in the business model, but we're also completely certain that we'll get through this.

And to top it all off, congress was able to hold this thing for a few days and get their grubby hands all over it. It's now filled with the most pathetic earmarks you could imagine. Research for wool? Toy wooden arrows for children? Taxes on Puerto Rican rum? Are they serious?

[Realist]

Alumnus,

Where are you getting the info on the earmarks? I'd like to see all of them if they are avaliable somewhere.


And you're right, there are both sides making good arguements. I guess I just want to err on the side of caution. If we let this thing keep going without taking action I think the credit markets are going to stay basically frozen and a lot of people are going to start losing their jobs, which would keep spiraling. But I don't think it's 100% that is going to happen, and I'd love to keep our hands off it if we had a good chance that it wouldn't. But even at 50/50, I think it's better to play it safe.

[Kolzilla41]

This all seems to make college pointless, huh?

[tinytim]

This all seems to make college pointless, huh?

Thanks for putting it into perspective for us all!!!!!

[ALUmnus]

Alumnus,

Where are you getting the info on the earmarks? I'd like to see all of them if they are avaliable somewhere.


And you're right, there are both sides making good arguements. I guess I just want to err on the side of caution. If we let this thing keep going without taking action I think the credit markets are going to stay basically frozen and a lot of people are going to start losing their jobs, which would keep spiraling. But I don't think it's 100% that is going to happen, and I'd love to keep our hands off it if we had a good chance that it wouldn't. But even at 50/50, I think it's better to play it safe.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10022008/po ... 131822.htm

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/ ... zarre.html

http://www.redstate.com/diaries/redstat ... e-version/
Albeit many of the earmarks are in the form of tax breaks.

I was never a Ron Paul supporter, but like many others, when he was debating and conveying his ideas, I really like what he had to say. But the most common response to Ron Paul was, "the country is too far-gone to revert back to how things should be, and we have to deal with what we've created". Our country's history had too many instances where we took the wrong turn politically, and it evolved into what it is today, and it's too late to turn back. I see this as another one of those instances, and we better be very careful what course we take. I don't want to look back and wonder how our country has become so socialist ten years from now. It was Marxist concepts that led to this mess, so our solution is to throw more Marxism at it? Seeing that this has never happened before, I don't believe that any one person truly knows what the solution is, but I can't help but think that this bailout isn't it.

[kel varson]

What makes me mad is all the pork in the bill. Tax credits for employers who get their employees to ride bicycles to work? Ridiculous! Millions of Dollars for wooden arrowheads for children!!!

[Kolzilla41]

I am really considering a run for some type of office in about ten years.

[SumItUp]

Once again, I'm proud of my Senator, Dr. Tom Coburn of Oklahoma. Here is part of his speech from the Senate floor.

We have a patient with cancer, and they have secondary pneumonia because of the cancer and we're going to treat the pneumonia. But we're not going to fix the cancer. We're gonna ignore the cancer. Let me tell you what the cancer is. The cancer is Congresses for years upon years have totally ignored the Constitution of the United States and taken to us areas where we have no business being. There is no way you can justify in the US Constitution that the country ought to be the source of mortgages for homeowners in this country, and yet Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac control 70% of the mortgages in this country.

If anybody in America is mad about this situation, there's only one place they need to direct their anger, and it's right in the Congress of the United States. What we're going to do is we're going to continue to treat the symptoms rather than directly go after the cause that has created the greatest financial risk and peril this country has ever seen. We're not going after the cause. The cause is get back within the bounds of the Constitution that very specifically says where we have business working and where we don't. We decided that we would ignore the wisdom of our founders and create systems that are outside the enumerated powers that were given to us because we know better, we know better. We don't know better, it is obvious.

his body continues to spend more, authorize more, and create bigger and more intrusive government, limiting the power of the great American experiment to in fact supply an increased standard of living. We're in tough times, but they're going to get tougher until the American people hold this body accountable to live within the rules set out in a very wise, a very providential way that served this country well. We ignore this book, this Constitution at our peril, we are reaping exactly what we have sown.

[ATrain]

Tom Coburn for President!!!!

[flamesbball84]

it passed by a convincing margin in the house today. senate has passed it. now bush just has to sign off on it for it to go into effect and encourage businesses across america to screw up.

[ALUmnus]

Wachovia is hurting. Government brokers a deal to have CitiGroup buy Wachovia for $2 billion. Private company comes along, Wells Fargo, decides to buy Wachovia for $15 billion, with no government assistance. Who here understands and better serves the market?

[flamesbball84]

Wachovia is hurting. Government brokers a deal to have CitiGroup buy Wachovia for $2 billion. Private company comes along, Wells Fargo, decides to buy Wachovia for $15 billion, with no government assistance. Who here understands and better serves the market?

answer: never the government. never.