[phoenix]

I think it may be time for Christians to admit that we're not going to do away with issues like abortion or gay marriage through political means. We have to do it through Gospel means, and that's going to take a lot longer.

Face it, we've had a pro-life "evangelical" President in office for eight years, and we're no closer to a repeal of Roe v. Wade than we were during the Clinton administration. It's an issue that we hold over the GOP's head when they're in office, and one they hold over our head come election time. Yes, it's a bad ruling, and it should be overturned, but I'm not holding my breath for a Republican administration that has the guts to do something about it.

sorry, I'm never EVER giving up on the issue of life (which I consider 1000x more important than gay marriage).

Who said I was giving up on the issue of life? I'm really close to giving up on a political solution, but I'm never going to stop showing people the solution to the problem. There's only one way to really effect change, and it has nothing to do with the government.

[RubberMallet]

I think it may be time for Christians to admit that we're not going to do away with issues like abortion or gay marriage through political means. We have to do it through Gospel means, and that's going to take a lot longer.

Face it, we've had a pro-life "evangelical" President in office for eight years, and we're no closer to a repeal of Roe v. Wade than we were during the Clinton administration. It's an issue that we hold over the GOP's head when they're in office, and one they hold over our head come election time. Yes, it's a bad ruling, and it should be overturned, but I'm not holding my breath for a Republican administration that has the guts to do something about it.

sorry, I'm never EVER giving up on the issue of life (which I consider 1000x more important than gay marriage).

Who said I was giving up on the issue of life? I'm really close to giving up on a political solution, but I'm never going to stop showing people the solution to the problem. There's only one way to really effect change, and it has nothing to do with the government.

i agree with you and ed from a political standpoint...it time for that to stop being the first thing out christian's mouths when talking from a political standpoint....abortion isn't going to go away through a political process. its unfortunate but its the way it is.

[Fumblerooskies]

The same-sex marriage issue may not be as much of a rallying point either...unless we, as Christians, can start some pro-family rallies to offset the same-sex marriage rallies that are beginning to sweep across the nation.

[JMUDukes]

Same-sex marriage should not even be talked about as long as abortion is going on. and the only thing left we can do through the government is a constitutional amendment to define life once and for all.

[phoenix]

As long as the divorce rate among Christians is as high as it is, I feel like a hypocrite complaining that someone else is ruining marriage.

[thepostman]

I completely agree that homosexuality is not right from a biblical standpoint.,...but honestly..who the heck cares if they get married...it does no effect me in any way..or anybody else for that matter...now if we're talking about adoption by gay couples...well, that is another debate...to me killing babies should be more important to people...but I agree, we need to do a better job as Christians providing alternatives...and the fact that abortions have been on the decline proves that not only are Christians doing a better job with places like the godparent home, but america in general is doing a better job...

there is my 2 cents

[JDUB]

it does matter because its a slippery slope. once they start getting married, then polygamy will be the next step, and eventually people will be marrying their dogs and cats

[Fumblerooskies]

it does matter because its a slippery slope. once they start getting married, then polygamy will be the next step, and eventually people will be marrying their dogs and cats

As long as we remember...this is all part of God's plan...more signs of the end-times...just as in the time of Noah when "man did as he pleased."

[LUconn]

it does matter because its a slippery slope. once they start getting married, then polygamy will be the next step, and eventually people will be marrying their dogs and cats

I agree that it does matter, but not for these reasons. If you don't care about gays getting married, why would you care about polygamy and marrying animals?

[JDUB]

good point LUconn. I was just pointing that out, but I do care about gays getting married. I think its ridiculous to even consider allowing that

[thepostman]

I am not saying I would vote to make gay marriage legal...because I wouldn't...I just care a whole lot more about unborn babies that get no say in the matter getting killed in the name of choice...that was the point I was trying to make...

I think the church as a whole in the last 10 years or so has done a good job giving pregnant girls/women solid alternatives..which has been good to see

[Schfourteenteen]

I completely agree that homosexuality is not right from a biblical standpoint.,...but honestly..who the heck cares if they get married...it does no effect me in any way..

David wanted to be so close to God that he would hate sin the way God did.

[ALUmnus]

sorry, I'm never EVER giving up on the issue of life (which I consider 1000x more important than gay marriage).

Who said I was giving up on the issue of life? I'm really close to giving up on a political solution, but I'm never going to stop showing people the solution to the problem. There's only one way to really effect change, and it has nothing to do with the government.

i agree with you and ed from a political standpoint...it time for that to stop being the first thing out christian's mouths when talking from a political standpoint....abortion isn't going to go away through a political process. its unfortunate but its the way it is.

The most important issues to a person will be the first thing out of their mouths. To say they need to stop putting their moral standards as the foundation of their politics is dangerous. If we think that something is inherently evil, is murder, and should be illegal, the only way to change the legality of something is either politically or judicially. Yes, as Christians, the Church has its job to work on the heart of the nation. But as American citizens, it is our job to make sure the country is being governed properly. When you start to loosen your grip on the rope, eventually you're not going to be able to hold on, and you'll have to let go of the rope completely. We can't lose our voice. Once you do it's hard to get it back.

[phoenix]

The most important issues to a person will be the first thing out of their mouths. To say they need to stop putting their moral standards as the foundation of their politics is dangerous. If we think that something is inherently evil, is murder, and should be illegal, the only way to change the legality of something is either politically or judicially. Yes, as Christians, the Church has its job to work on the heart of the nation. But as American citizens, it is our job to make sure the country is being governed properly. When you start to loosen your grip on the rope, eventually you're not going to be able to hold on, and you'll have to let go of the rope completely. We can't lose our voice. Once you do it's hard to get it back.

I agree with this -- we have to be responsible citizens, and vote our conscience. The problem is that we've gotten so fired up about creating a political solution that we've forgotten about anything else. I've met too many people who are so focused on getting Roe v. Wade thrown out that they don't do anything else, and that's the problem.

Another problem is that nobody knows about the stuff that we ARE doing outside the political process. I talk to people all the time that have no clue about the Godparent Home or other things like that, and are amazed that things like that exist. We need to do a better job of letting people know what we're doing.

[Sly Fox]

As a communications professional, you are preaching to the choir on this one.

[Fumblerooskies]

MSNBC weighs in with some good (in my opinion) points.

MIAMI - In small meetings at the homes of conservative activists and bigger ones at research groups, in conference calls and on blogs, and at gatherings like the Republican governors’ conference that just ended here, the questions have been the same:

Nearly 30 years after Ronald Reagan ushered in a period of conservative ascendancy in American politics, how should the movement re-energize itself? And how can conservatives chart a path back to power after this month’s Republican defeats?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27761114/

[ALUmnus]

The most important issues to a person will be the first thing out of their mouths. To say they need to stop putting their moral standards as the foundation of their politics is dangerous. If we think that something is inherently evil, is murder, and should be illegal, the only way to change the legality of something is either politically or judicially. Yes, as Christians, the Church has its job to work on the heart of the nation. But as American citizens, it is our job to make sure the country is being governed properly. When you start to loosen your grip on the rope, eventually you're not going to be able to hold on, and you'll have to let go of the rope completely. We can't lose our voice. Once you do it's hard to get it back.

I agree with this -- we have to be responsible citizens, and vote our conscience. The problem is that we've gotten so fired up about creating a political solution that we've forgotten about anything else. I've met too many people who are so focused on getting Roe v. Wade thrown out that they don't do anything else, and that's the problem.

Another problem is that nobody knows about the stuff that we ARE doing outside the political process. I talk to people all the time that have no clue about the Godparent Home or other things like that, and are amazed that things like that exist. We need to do a better job of letting people know what we're doing.

Very, very true. And this is something that our church is going to start doing. Create an online presence and show the world what we're doing. If the media has too much else on their plate, then we'll do their job for them.

Good articel by Karl Rove in Newsweek, http://www.newsweek.com/id/169173
Just a clip that relates to recent posts:

9. Culture matters. Suggestions that we abandon social conservatism, including our pro-life agenda, should be ignored. These values are often more popular than the GOP itself. The age of sonograms has made younger voters a more pro-life generation. And California and Florida approved marriage amendments while McCain lost both states. Republicans, in championing our values agenda, need to come across as morally serious rather than as judgmental. More than 4 million Americans who go to church more than once a week and voted in 2004 stayed home in 2008. They represented half the margin between Obama and McCain.

Great line, "values are often more popular than the GOP itself".

[RubberMallet]

Who said I was giving up on the issue of life? I'm really close to giving up on a political solution, but I'm never going to stop showing people the solution to the problem. There's only one way to really effect change, and it has nothing to do with the government.

i agree with you and ed from a political standpoint...it time for that to stop being the first thing out christian's mouths when talking from a political standpoint....abortion isn't going to go away through a political process. its unfortunate but its the way it is.

The most important issues to a person will be the first thing out of their mouths. To say they need to stop putting their moral standards as the foundation of their politics is dangerous. If we think that something is inherently evil, is murder, and should be illegal, the only way to change the legality of something is either politically or judicially. Yes, as Christians, the Church has its job to work on the heart of the nation. But as American citizens, it is our job to make sure the country is being governed properly. When you start to loosen your grip on the rope, eventually you're not going to be able to hold on, and you'll have to let go of the rope completely. We can't lose our voice. Once you do it's hard to get it back.

i'm not saying we still shouldnt' fight for it. i'm just saying its pretty much a worthless fight politically and we need to understand that. abortion will not go away. does our voice still need to be heard? yes, will i continue to express my disdain and disgust of the act? most certainly, but if a candidate comes around that meets all of my political requirements as a candidate however supports pro choice, i'm not going to have a hard time voting for him. because regardless of whether he opposes it or not, its going to continue to happen. he may slow the process down but probably not. i'm not counting on it....our current administration ahs been too busy building the federal gvt empire rather than waste its time with abortion issues... while they support it its not at the forefront of the political landscape...

abortion is an abomination but voting and supporting politicians who are pro-life isn't going to get it abolished....maybe i'm a pessimist and someone can show me a gleeming hope for it, but i ain't seeing it.

[RubberMallet]

this probably all stems from the fact that when i talked to many christian voters who were voting mccain soley because he's prolife..... the guy could have had a swastika tattooed on his arm but hey he's pro life, he gets my vote!

[JMUDukes]

this probably all stems from the fact that when i talked to many christian voters who were voting mccain soley because he's prolife..... the guy could have had a swastika tattooed on his arm but hey he's pro life, he gets my vote!

as long as he wasn't Obama, he got my vote.

[mrmacphisto]

I'm sure I'll meet with a bit of disagreement on this, but it occurred to me recently that today's political activism looks so much like modern-day idolatry. Since the beginning, God's people have found themselves inclined to pray to the gods of the society in which they found themselves.

In today's increasingly secular world, political leaders, appointed judges and legislation have become the gods of our society. We devote so much time and energy to electing leaders and supporting referendums because we think they represent a significant part of the solution to the world's problems. Just like the Israelites worshiped and prayed to the gods of their neighbors, we as Christians seem to be putting an increasing amount of faith and hope in the gods of ours.

[Realist]

I'm sure I'll meet with a bit of disagreement on this, but it occurred to me recently that today's political activism looks so much like modern-day idolatry. Since the beginning, God's people have found themselves inclined to pray to the gods of the society in which they found themselves.

In today's increasingly secular world, political leaders, appointed judges and legislation have become the gods of our society. We devote so much time and energy to electing leaders and supporting referendums because we think they represent a significant part of the solution to the world's problems. Just like the Israelites worshiped and prayed to the gods of their neighbors, we as Christians seem to be putting an increasing amount of faith and hope in the gods of ours.

Yes. This was probably a better way to put it than how I did. Maybe this was in bad taste, but I got attacked the other day when I compared Obama's mass rallies and slogan repetition to Hitler's tactics. I made the caveat that I wasn't saying their motives were the same, but the tactics were. Obama's whole campaign was geared around getting everyone to believe he was the savior of the country, rather than a guy who put issues at the forefront, and was just a man who could lead, if that makes sense.

[AZjonz]

There's more to the pro-life political movement than just overturning Roe V. Wade. As stated in this article President Bush drew a line in the sand and would not sign any legislation that had a pro-abortion rider. We're going to see a lot of these riders approved under the Dem Congress and President-Elect Obama. So sad.

http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A000008033.cfm

[Ed Dantes]

There's more to the pro-life political movement than just overturning Roe V. Wade. As stated in this article President Bush drew a line in the sand and would not sign any legislation that had a pro-abortion rider. We're going to see a lot of these riders approved under the Dem Congress and President-Elect Obama. So sad.

http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A000008033.cfm

There's no need, all he has to do is sign one piece of legislation, the Freedom of Choice Act. There won't need to be any abortion riders on any other bills, because the FOCA will take care of all that.

By the way, guys, I understand the points you are trying to make, but a good rule of thumb is this: the first person to bring up Hitler or the Nazis in an argument loses the debate.

[LUconn]

Hitler:Nazi::Obama:Democrat

I win.