[Purple Haize]

Maybe. Maybe not. We don't know and are just kind of guessing. There were a portion of Republicans/conservatives who voted 3rd party or just stayed home. Was that enough to help another candidate? Who knows. I also thought Trump had no chance to win the nomination so clearly my hunches aren't very good. Haha

HRC got about as many votes as Obama did in 2012 nationwide. Trump got 2 million more than Romney.
The key are the States Trump won that I can’t think of another Republican could have won. What Republican could have won Wisconsin? Pennsylvania? Ohio?

[Jonathan Carone]

You mean like they did with McCain and Romney for Obama?

Conservatives both feared and disliked Hillary more than Obama. Add that to the knowledge that she would’ve had 1-2 Supreme Court seats and you had the cocktail for Republicans to vote more against her than for a candidate.

[thepostman]

Maybe. Maybe not. We don't know and are just kind of guessing. There were a portion of Republicans/conservatives who voted 3rd party or just stayed home. Was that enough to help another candidate? Who knows. I also thought Trump had no chance to win the nomination so clearly my hunches aren't very good. Haha

HRC got about as many votes as Obama did in 2012 nationwide. Trump got 2 million more than Romney.
The key are the States Trump won that I can’t think of another Republican could have won. What Republican could have won Wisconsin? Pennsylvania? Ohio?

I just looked back at the candidates and I completely forgot how God awful the candidate pool was.

[Purple Haize]

Maybe. Maybe not. We don't know and are just kind of guessing. There were a portion of Republicans/conservatives who voted 3rd party or just stayed home. Was that enough to help another candidate? Who knows. I also thought Trump had no chance to win the nomination so clearly my hunches aren't very good. Haha

HRC got about as many votes as Obama did in 2012 nationwide. Trump got 2 million more than Romney.
The key are the States Trump won that I can’t think of another Republican could have won. What Republican could have won Wisconsin? Pennsylvania? Ohio?

I just looked back at the candidates and I completely forgot how God awful the candidate pool was.

That’s my point. The American memory is short
You can’t understate what Trump pulled off in 2016. I know he makes a big deal about it and certainly will over the next 4-5 months. But it truly was historic. Love him or hate him what he did was amazing

[Purple Haize]

You mean like they did with McCain and Romney for Obama?

Conservatives both feared and disliked Hillary more than Obama. Add that to the knowledge that she would’ve had 1-2 Supreme Court seats and you had the cocktail for Republicans to vote more against her than for a candidate.

That’s a complete narrative change. Obama had quite a few SCOTUS picks. And now that Conservatives are all being painted as Racists how could they fear HRC over Obama?

[thepostman]

Amazing is not the word I use but I can see why you say that. It was extremely surprising and still is. His campaign wasn't afraid to do things outside the box and the RNC knows how to work the electoral college to perfection.

(He still didn't win the popular vote so it wasn't THAT amazing. )

[thepostman]

You mean like they did with McCain and Romney for Obama?

Conservatives both feared and disliked Hillary more than Obama. Add that to the knowledge that she would’ve had 1-2 Supreme Court seats and you had the cocktail for Republicans to vote more against her than for a candidate.

That’s a complete narrative change. Obama had quite a few SCOTUS picks. And now that Conservatives are all being painted as Racists how could they fear HRC over Obama?

HRC is unquestionably more disliked more than Obama by conservatives. Feared? Probably not the word I would use.

[Purple Haize]

Well if you’re a racist you obviously fear a POC in the White House

[Jonathan Carone]

You mean like they did with McCain and Romney for Obama?

Conservatives both feared and disliked Hillary more than Obama. Add that to the knowledge that she would’ve had 1-2 Supreme Court seats and you had the cocktail for Republicans to vote more against her than for a candidate.

That’s a complete narrative change. Obama had quite a few SCOTUS picks. And now that Conservatives are all being painted as Racists how could they fear HRC over Obama?

First off - conservatives as racists is a straw man in this conversation. I don’t think anyone here believes that.

As for 2016 - conservatives feared a Hillary presidency more than Obama because they had eight years of Obama to fuel the liberal agenda narrative. They’d seen what it looked like and knew the balance of the court was at stake. Had Hillary won, there was no progress to be made overturning Roe v Wade and the second amendment was going to be under attack. All the moderates who voted for Trump - the ones that never admitted they would in polling that were the key to him winning - choked down voting for Trump because of the court. They would’ve voted for anyone to stop Hillary.

[Purple Haize]

Conservatives both feared and disliked Hillary more than Obama. Add that to the knowledge that she would’ve had 1-2 Supreme Court seats and you had the cocktail for Republicans to vote more against her than for a candidate.

That’s a complete narrative change. Obama had quite a few SCOTUS picks. And now that Conservatives are all being painted as Racists how could they fear HRC over Obama?

First off - conservatives as racists is a straw man in this conversation. I don’t think anyone here believes that.

As for 2016 - conservatives feared a Hillary presidency more than Obama because they had eight years of Obama to fuel the liberal agenda narrative. They’d seen what it looked like and knew the balance of the court was at stake. Had Hillary won, there was no progress to be made overturning Roe v Wade and the second amendment was going to be under attack. All the moderates who voted for Trump - the ones that never admitted they would in polling that were the key to him winning - choked down voting for Trump because of the court. They would’ve voted for anyone to stop Hillary.

[Jonathan Carone]

Haize - looks like you didn’t actually post what you meant to here.

[Purple Haize]

Haize - looks like you didn’t actually post what you meant to here.

I most certainly did....in my mind

I forgot what I was going to say. I’m old

[thepostman]

I still don't think fear is the word i would use. But I've spent the day alternating from joyous playing with my kids to tons of screaming all day long so my brain is pretty fried.

[Jonathan Carone]

I think it’s fear of what a Hillary presidency would’ve entailed. It’s not fear of her personally.

[Purple Haize]

I think it’s fear of what a Hillary presidency would’ve entailed. It’s not fear of her personally.

I dunno. She’s kinda scary !

[Jonathan Carone]

The “scandal” of the moment is Trump’s health. There are two videos making their rounds from his speech at West Point today. The first is of him unable to get a glass of water to his mouth and needing a second hand to do it. The second is him gingerly walking down a ramp.

I don’t endorse these twitter accounts - just wanted to share the videos.

The walking down the ramp video - to me - could just be a 74-year-old man walking down an incline. He seems to not stride with his right leg, only bringing it to meet his left one, but again - he’s old and it’s on an incline.

The water one is interesting to me. He doesn’t seem to have the dexterity and hand strength in that one needed to lift the glass.

Neither of these has any impact on how he conducts himself or performs his job. They also aren’t a disqualification for the office.

Here’s my question - and this very much stems from my love of The West Wing - should someone running for the highest office in the world have to declare their medical issues to inform the public on what they’re voting for? Secondarily - should the public be informed if the president has had medical issues while in office?

Edit - didn’t realize it would pull in the other tweets about Trump’s speech. That was unintentional. I’m much more interested in the physical actions than the misspeaks on words.

[Purple Haize]

The water looked like it was a jacket thing, not a dexterity thing. His sleeve bunches up there a lot. I have read time and again how Presidents have Kevlar woven suit jackets So trying to bring that small glass up to your mouth is going to be like trying to do that while you or I wearing 3 huge wool sweaters. If you watch all the clips he’s waving that hand around pretty good even using it to brace himself going down the ramp from the stage
The phonetic faux paus are just Trump being Trump
The descent was a bit awkward but I couldn’t tell it it was a ramp or stairs or whatever. If you notice at the end he gives a little hop skip and a jump on the dismount. I am absolutely awkward coming down any type of slope or stair. But my knees are crap
If there’s going to be a hullabaloo about this it’s just a sad state of affairs. To answer your questions, no and yes. By disclosing a medication or condition you are going to open the opposition up to exaggerate the issue etc. HRC obviously had a big health issue. Biden appears to have a serious cognitive issue. Letting voters see the candidates do there thing should be good enough. Trump flat out outworked a HRC and keeps crazy long hours and has tons of energy.
As for a medical issue while IN office that’s a different story. I’m sure Mrs Wilson would say no, but I’m pretty sure if a President became incapacitated while in office we’d find out quick

[thepostman]

It is always going to be a story when you have 2 men in their 70's running for president. I have seen Trump tweet and retweet things questioning Biden's health and I don't have any idea why he would do that. There is plenty of video out there that can show he isnt exactly on his A game either. Both these guys are old. Their best health days are behind them. So it almost seems like a non-issue to me since they kind of cancel each other out.

[RubberMallet]

my first thoughts are with any of these..HRC...Trump...Biden.... they are in their 70's! my grandparents were hobbly weeble wobbles in their 70s. why we elect 70+ people to be president is an absolute absurdity.

[Jonathan Carone]

As for a medical issue while IN office that’s a different story. I’m sure Mrs Wilson would say no, but I’m pretty sure if a President became incapacitated while in office we’d find out quick

I don't pay much attention to the health of the president, so I didn't know Trump was rushed to Walter Reed back in November for reasons that were never released. I'd be interested to know what those reasons were. If they were stroke related, that would explain why the right arm and right leg were weaker. I don't think it keeps him from doing his job, but I'd say the public should be informed on if something happened.

[Purple Haize]

my first thoughts are with any of these..HRC...Trump...Biden.... they are in their 70's! my grandparents were hobbly weeble wobbles in their 70s. why we elect 70+ people to be president is an absolute absurdity.

I dunno. My grandfathers brother just passed away at 95. He was sharp as a Tac until the last 3 years. Different people age differently. Obviously things are stage managed but Trump has more energy than a lot of people a decade younger. Certainly more than the vast majority of people in their 70’s.
I still would love to see the Congressional Pharmacy records. That article from a few years ago has stuck with me. Jerry Nadler and Nancy Pelosi have to have issues. I’m not sure Mitch doesn’t either.

[Purple Haize]

As for a medical issue while IN office that’s a different story. I’m sure Mrs Wilson would say no, but I’m pretty sure if a President became incapacitated while in office we’d find out quick

I don't pay much attention to the health of the president, so I didn't know Trump was rushed to Walter Reed back in November for reasons that were never released. I'd be interested to know what those reasons were. If they were stroke related, that would explain why the right arm and right leg were weaker. I don't think it keeps him from doing his job, but I'd say the public should be informed on if something happened.

It was supposedly related to a heart issue not stroke. 2 entirely different things. I agree if it incapacitates the President for a decent length of time (The incident in November didnt) then absolutely people should know. The Bush Administration was very open about Cheney’s heart issues, so there is precedent

[Jonathan Carone]

Bernie downplayed it, but he admitted the heart attack too.

As I've thought about it - given the age of both candidates, I'd like to know where their health is before I cast a vote. Joe isn't the healthiest and while Trump has energy, he's also significantly overweight and in his 70's. If there have been heart conditions already, the chances of them happening again are even higher. It makes the choices for VP that much more important.

Surely after this election we're going to get away from electing guys who will be near 80 before their done.

[thepostman]

I just can't understand even having the desire to do such a demanding job well into your 70's. If i am a demanding job into my 70's something must've gone terribly wrong.

[Purple Haize]

I just can't understand even having the desire to do such a demanding job well into your 70's. If i am a demanding job into my 70's something must've gone terribly wrong.

You also aren’t used to being a Power Broker either. But I’m with you. I want to sit back and relax when I’m their age