[qkslvrsrfrboy]

hoopsamalone, why are you here? You clearly are not a flames fan, you came to this site looking for a fight. I wouldnt go to samford's fans website(if they have one) and randomly join it even though i dont go to the school and say "hey this is a christian school just like Liberty is, lets compare them, without making it a Liberty vs. samford ordeal". This clearly was your intention all along, and its probably the dumbest thing i have ever seen. As far as you trying to say samford is better, whats the national rank of your debate team? I mean Harvard and Yale are considered some of the smartest schools, yet were ranked above them? We have very intelligent people. As far as not being ranked in top schools, false. Go pick up a copy of 2006's US news top Universities, i believe youll find an article entitled "they pray as you go", surprisingly not about Samford, but rather, Liberty. To be honest, i had never even heard of samford until i came to liberty. All this to say, Go bother someone else. With as upset as you are about Liberty, and from reading the way you argue in some of your posts, it almost appears as though your just upset, you were probably one of the few Liberty didnt accept, in which case, Im sorry you missed out on a great college experience.

[hoopsmalone]

hoopsamalone, why are you here? You clearly are not a flames fan, you came to this site looking for a fight. I wouldnt go to samford's fans website(if they have one) and randomly join it even though i dont go to the school and say "hey this is a christian school just like Liberty is, lets compare them, without making it a Liberty vs. samford ordeal". This clearly was your intention all along, and its probably the dumbest thing i have ever seen. As far as you trying to say samford is better, whats the national rank of your debate team? I mean Harvard and Yale are considered some of the smartest schools, yet were ranked above them? We have very intelligent people. As far as not being ranked in top schools, false. Go pick up a copy of 2006's US news top Universities, i believe youll find an article entitled "they pray as you go", surprisingly not about Samford, but rather, Liberty. To be honest, i had never even heard of samford until i came to liberty. All this to say, Go bother someone else. With as upset as you are about Liberty, and from reading the way you argue in some of your posts, it almost appears as though your just upset, you were probably one of the few Liberty didnt accept, in which case, Im sorry you missed out on a great college experience.

First off, liberty accepted me w/ flying colors and I could have gone on scholarship. Samford is far more selective, so you should have been able to figure all of that out on your own. You even admitted that you hadn't heard of the college, then you started to make immediate comparions. Here's a suggestion for any of your future debates- try doing some research before you start whining away and making outlandish statements.I don't hate liberty. Ha, I even have two libety t-shirts from my college visit and I live with a Liberty grad. Who, by the way, would be the first to come on here and actually support the quality of our school- Liberty was the first college that accepted me, I have no ill feelings.
I came on here to discuss the future of christian colleges, and i've had this discusion with the forementioned friend. If you read back, you'll see that one of your own was the culprit who started the actual side-by-side comparison. As a proud graduate, I felt compelled to support my alma mater. It was nothing more than that, and if you want to read into it as some liberty hate-fest, feel free. If you had followed this read, you would already know that.
You're awfullly quick to rush to judgements. Keep telling me about your debate team, that's soooo impressive
Obviously, I've unintentionaly struck a nerve. It was comic relief though to see that you had the audactity to imply that your college is ahead of Harvard and Yale.
As for the people who were questioning if we make our profs sign a statement of faith, I'm pretty sure that's a mandate, but I'll certainly admit that we had some liberal professors. That's one of the main reasons I started this whole post- the future of christian schools. I wouldn't come on here if my sole intent was to mock liberty. Why would I mock a place that I attended? Having said that, I'm not going to stand idley by while some people suggest you're on par with or higher than a harvard or yale. Then you throw out a subjective stat such as "pray as you go". Are you really that desperate in your argument? We must maintain some form of logic in this discussion.

[TallyW]

go away hoops. take your ball and go home.

[Ed Dantes]

1. Establish truly christian atmosphere in a campus w/ over 10,000 students?
2. Create and Maintain high academic standards within that university?
3. Attract the nation's brightest, christian graduates?

I'd be curious how Samford's Honors Program compares to ours at LU. We will have 525 students in the program in the fall with over 30 National Merit Finalists (the top half of the top 1% of PSAT scores nation-wide). And LU has just increased the Honors scholarship from $3,500 to $3,750 annually (or $15,00 over 4 years). In addition, National Merit Finalists get a full tuition, room, & board scholarship.

In recent years, we have attracted students with a perfect 36 ACT and a perfect 1270 SAT.

A 1270 constitutes perfection these days for the SAT?...

Besides, I don't think that the problem is with the upper end of Liberty's student body. I think that it's academic reputation is weighed down because of an open admission policy that allows practically everyone in. For example, when I was at Liberty, I was researching its 25%-75% SAT score (which means that of its incoming freshman class, 25% percent on the students scored worse than the 1st number and 75% scored worse than the second number). At a place like James Madison, that number is 1070-1250. At Liberty, it was like 720-1200. I think that you can't even play football with a 720 SAT score.

My junior year, Falwell boasted about an incoming freshman that had a perfect SAT score. A few minutes later, outside of convo, I heard another student talking about his reading list for his 100 level English class... and when someone told him about "Hamlet", he said "who wrote that?".

There just isn't enough parity when it comes to Liberty students...

Even worse than all that is the fact that those students at the bottom rung don't last very long. The retention rate for freshman is pitiful. So those freshman classes are littered with, for lack of a better word, morons, whereas the upper classmen are going against people with some smarts. But it doesn't really matter when that academic reputation is weighed down.

If Liberty wanted to curb enrollment to only a few thousand, it will be a far better school, in my humble opinion.

[Ed Dantes]

Booooooo tenure!

I disagree. I think tenure is a good thing, largely because teachers like job security. And that's how to get good teachers.

After all, if we were to say to any prospective basketball coach that we would only give him a one year contract, and we would re-evaluate his job at the end of that year before deciding whether or not to give him another one year contract... there's no way that you're going to get any good coach to agree to those terms.



So why do we expect different with our teachers?

[TallyW]

Baylor, Colorado University, etc... That's why.

[JDUB]

1270 isn't perfect on the SAT cause i got an 1820. its out of 2400 now. before it was 1600. i'm not sure where 1270 came from

[El Scorcho]

I think that it's academic reputation is weighed down because of an open admission policy that allows practically everyone in.

That's not the case anymore, plain and simple.

Even if it was, it doesn't fulfill the mission of the school to limit enrollment to just a few thousand students.

I disagree. I think tenure is a good thing, largely because teachers like job security.

Unfortunately, many also like it because it means they can go "buck wild" with their teaching once they have it. At a place like Liberty, that's all it would take to start the turn of the school away from values we were previously discussing. It takes a special kind of person to teach at Liberty, and if they can handle having to work under the same circumstances that most of the rest of the employees of the university have to work under, then they probably don't really have what it takes in the first place.

Of course, that's just IMHO.

[Fumblerooskies]

What Scorcho said...

[hoopsmalone]

go away hoops. take your ball and go home.

freedom of speech baby...deal with it...or go home. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[qkslvrsrfrboy]

School Total Points
Liberty University 577
Oklahoma 522
Binghamton 515
U.S. Military Academy 496
Wake Forest 474
Wayne State Universi 452
Boston College 448
Whitman College 442
Georgia 429
Cornell University 421
Kansas (Univ. of) 421
Mary Washington 420
Emory 416
Northwestern 402
Rochester 398
California 396
John Carroll Univers 389
Missouri State 389
Kansas State 385
Wichita State 382
Cal Poly 373
Harvard 369
Southern California 368
Gonzaga 364
Kansas City Kansas C 363
CSU Fullerton 358
Dartmouth 344
Vermont 340
Idaho State 332
U.S. Naval Academy 327
Baylor 327
Samford 323

That list starts at Number one. And just in case you forgot who was number one by the time you got down to where harvard was, its Liberty. Secondly, ive been following this whole thread i didnt just read one post and decide to jump in, ive been reading it since it started staying out of it. Go back and take a look at your very first post in which YOU sir made the first comparison. You really are not worth the time i have already wasted on this argument, so im leaving it at that. Go get a life, find something better to do. And yes, im searching for a deeper relationship with christ, but sometimes things come to an end, and as you have just stated, "freedom of speech baby", go **** off

[JDUB]

well then

[qkslvrsrfrboy]

i really hope he comes back with some holier than thou comment about how i swore (hence why i edited it), cuz that would be great. oh and in case you think i edited that list to put liberty so much higher than harvard and samford, heres the link http://commweb.fullerton.edu/jbruschke/web/home.aspx

[thepostman]

go away hoops. take your ball and go home.

freedom of speech baby...deal with it...or go home. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

man, i kind of felt bad for you for a while because I knew you weren't trying to attack Liberty...but I no longer feel bad for you....freedom of speech??? That reminds me of when I was in elementary school and people would say, "ITS A FREE COUNTRY" to justify them doing whatever the heck they were doing.....I hope you're proud

[jimflamesfan]

go away hoops. take your ball and go home.

freedom of speech baby...deal with it...or go home. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Hoops, you're posting on a Flames message board. We can tell you to go home if we want...it's our freedom of speech! To me, it seems all you want to do is start arguments. What did LU do wrong to you?

Your original reason for posting on here was your concern about the future of Christian colleges for your children. I asked you why you wouldn't let your children chose their own college? You never answered that question and you continue to argue about Samford vs. LU.

And in case you try to argue the party line that LU debate is only better b/c they go to more debates...LU was also ranked ahead of Harvard in '97, when Harvard went to more debates than LU.

Maybe your children will be involved in debate and want to attend LU! Maybe they'll like ice hockey, and want to attend LU. Maybe they'll want to go to a secular school, and not go to Samford or LU. Who knows...what's the point of this!?!?

[TallyW]

have we ever banned someone from this site before

hoops... you're a fraud.. there were like 2 guys giving you the benefit of the doubt and now they don't like you. Apparently Samford doesn't help someone socially adjust.

To come on our board and talk smack about Samford of all places... Who ever heard of Samford? HAHAA.... you're comparing a school with 166 years of history to one with 36 LOL... Anybody who feels the need to compare us right now should feel pretty sad about their own institution.... You've yet to answer my points and you've proven yourself to be socially inept. Please... for you own sake... go home... You're just making yourself look foolish. You've obviously got some issues to work through and I don't know if any of us are trained to handle your situation bro.... let it go... play in someone else's pool... you've wet your pants in ours.

[hoopsmalone]

So, i guess your version of a forum is a censored forum.
Please SHOW ME, QUOTE ME, on where I was "slamming" your school AND NOT JUST STATING FACTS! ...YOU CAN'T!
You know what really inspired me to do this? I was browsing through youtube after my rooommate was on there and I stumbled across a video with Dr. Dawkins. I WAS PULLING FOR YOU GUYS EVERY TIME YOU TOOK THE MIC, BUT NOBODY GAVE HIM A SOLID ARGUMENT! I was frustrated FOR YOU and FOR our christian students around america. WE NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB EQUIPPING christian students with great knowledge in ALL AREAS OF LIFE, and Samford, Liberty, all Christian colleges are at least partically guilty of that!
I bring provoking questions up. I make points. I continually try to show you the path i'm on, and the handful of you are so immature, you resort to threats of banning and reduce yourselves to questioning my academic background. (Despite the fact that you've never met me and never seen any of my records)
I've tried to stay on course, but you keep deviating. I'll post this for the 80th time- I'm here to talk about the future of christan colleges in america. For some reason, when I start using two baptist schools and BOTH ARE COLLEGES I CONSIDERED ATTENDING!!!!!!! you perceive it as an atttack on your school. You accuse me of arrogance, while running of with comments such as "who has heard of samford" , well, evidentley, the most respected and most widely referEnced guides have.
Now, when I say that, AM I SLAMMING LIBERTY? NO! I came on here to talk about christian- particulary baptist colleges. My own roommate, a personal friend of mine for more than 10 years, would be the first one to tell you that Liberty could use some work, and I'll definitely admit that Samford could axe a few liberal professors. At the end of the day, I'm wondering- will there ever be a day when there will be a college that is recognized as an outstanding academic instution and a great moral college. Can we truly balance both? Is that too hard of a question to grasp?
I think the ideal school would be one as large as liberty, with the recognition and ranking/recognition of a furman, samford-whatever. A school that is truly balanced. Rollins, Stetson and Samford are all recognized as some of the top private schools in the south, but they're small, isolated schools. That doesn't mean they're bad, but it does mean that they can only have a limited impact on their community.
I must honestly say that those of you who have come out and attacked me have truly shown a lack of character and you keep putting words in my mouth that simply aren't there. ..just try using some perspective and looking at the context of my posts, rather than picking and choosing text like a pharisee.

[hoopsmalone]

by the way, maybe you should follow the example of your amazing debaters and stand your ground, rather than whining when i mention my right to free speech. THIS IS A FORUM.

[hoopsmalone]

Your original reason for posting on here was your concern about the future of Christian colleges for your children. I asked you why you wouldn't let your children chose their own college? You never answered that question and you continue to argue about Samford vs. LU.

I don't have childeren yet. When they're old enough to be in college, if they can provide their own way to a college education at that point, then the decision is their's to make. They're 18. Otherwise, I'll have a say in where they and my money go. That's still a feeewwyear's off though.

[qkslvrsrfrboy]

and heres a hint, Tally wasnt the debater, I am

[SuperJon]

Hmm, maybe we're close to our first banned poster?

[TallyW]

the I's have it.

[bigsmooth]

the best way to combat it is to just not respond guys. let him blabber...to answer your questions hoops, yes, yes and yes. does LU need to improve on diversity? yes they do. but the efforts are there. overall athletics?? LU is better. in revenue sports? samford would have the edge. keep in mind hoops this is an LU board, and we are all passionate about our school. thanks for coming in, but just be ready to defend yourself, which it looks like you are doing an ok job.....for a samford guy

[4everfsu]

I am not sure what the student population of Rollins, Stetson are, but Samford is 5000 as someone said. They are small because they want to be small for what ever reason. LU could have capped their growth at any time they wanted, but right now Jerry has a vision and so far he was been our leader and led by God to build this university. As far as your original questions I gave you my answers. We can be that university that makes a difference in this world, because we had that mission in mind when we were founded. Many schools were founded to train ministers like the IVY schools, but look where they have headed. They maybe the elitest academic schools of today, but where is their Christian stand for the Lord? I rather have a christian school standing for God and working toward academic excellence then the other way around. As far as tenure for professor, I am glad we dont grant it or we would be like any other school. I think LU is one of the best Christian schools around, there are many good Christian schools around, but to say one is all for everyone I would not or could not. I think of the Christian schools like the body of Christ, one doesnt say because I am the thumb I am more important or less important then the eye. No, each one is important in their own way. If I was a young man again and could go back to college I would still pick LU today as my first choice. If for no other reason to see the diversity of the students getting a Christian education that makes my heart glad. Don't ever expect a school to reach the world for Christ until you are willing to open your doors of educations to students of different races. I am a product of a mexican father and a mom from PA. , and I never understood why Baptist preacher when I was growing up preached God sent his son to die for the world but would not invites blacks to our church. I attended BJU and saw the same mindset there, and then I saw the OTGH during Christmas break, and attended LBC and saw Jerry wanted to train ministers, black,white, yellow, brown, ever color under the sun.
Ok enough rambling for an old man

[Sly Fox]

For the record, hoopsmalone may be somewhat annoying at times in this thread but he's done nothing to deserve a banning. I honestly believe he came in here with a legitimate question housed in remarks that baited a response from us. His original premise has merit in discussion. But obviously this became ridiculously sidetracked in a hurry.