[Rocketfan]

Question...

Through coax and composite, when I tune to an HD channel, I get matting on the top and bottom, as if it's re-formatting for SD. Sometimes the bars are black, other times gray.

As far as I know, this is not due to a setting on my TV. Does anyone know (or think) that the cable box is configured to only send a true HD signal through the HDMI port? Or is it possible that my TV will only recognize a signal as HD if it comes through the HDMI input?

Most Tv's offer the ability to change the bar color to black or gray. But you get those bars when a station is NOT broadcasting in HD.....even though you may be tuned into the HD channel. HD signal ( true HD ) can only come thru HDMI or over the air antenna. DVI is a possibility i guess for close to HD quality but that comes from DVD players and isn't on most tv's to my knowledge.

As far as Directv goes i did some digging and in your setup menu there is a setting called "Native" ( i believe thats how its spelled) on your HD set top box. If this setting is off your box will not allow you TV to translate the signal to HD, but when on take a few seconds longer to let you view a channel but pull it up an HD ( if its an HD channel )

[adam42381]

Question...

Through coax and composite, when I tune to an HD channel, I get matting on the top and bottom, as if it's re-formatting for SD. Sometimes the bars are black, other times gray.

As far as I know, this is not due to a setting on my TV. Does anyone know (or think) that the cable box is configured to only send a true HD signal through the HDMI port? Or is it possible that my TV will only recognize a signal as HD if it comes through the HDMI input?

If you have the Explorer 8300HD box that came from Comcast (Adelphia) turn the power off on the box then hold the Guide and Info buttons down with your TV on. This will initiate the HDTV Setup Wizard to set your box to output for your TV. Here's a link to the information on this particular box: http://www.grandecom.net/site-file.php?fid=51

[Rocketfan]

As far as the best option... cable is not at the moment... not in L-burg anyway. Overall, cable has some advantages in some places (at my mom's she gets local HD for free but no espn etc.)

Dish Net. is a little ahead at the moment in regard to national networks in HD. DirecTV has decided to focus more on getting locals up on its birds, but Roanoke/L-burg will be down the list. (2010-12?) D-TV has about 10 HD stations now and a few specialty HD stations (NFL games, NBA, concerts, pay per view.)

That said, there is supposed to be a sat launched for D-TV this year that will add "up to" 150 HD channels... I have heard that it would be half nationals (TLC, MTV, TBS, etc.) and the other half locals in large markets like Chicago, Philly and so on. Another sat is supposed to go up at the end of the decade too.. that's why you have to get a new dish that can pull in from 5 sats. Even in the best cable markets (not Lynchburg) there are only 40-50 HD stations. Also, D-TV says that it will have more HD sports than anyone by years end... I'm guessing that all the regional nets will be HD and the NBA, NHL, MLB, NCAA tickets too.

Right now the set-up I have is a DirecTV HD DVR and an antenna mounted to my house. The antenna runs into the DVR and records just like D-TV programs. It works really well. I got a pretty nice antenna with amp and can get the Lynchburg stations at 98% and the Roanoke stations at around 92%. I may have gotten a better set-up than needed but I had heard of some people who had trouble getting the Roanoke stations and I didn't want to get something that might not work. It rarely has a glitch and for the most part the locals are solid with the antenna and when the new D-TV HD sat gets launched it will be all I will need.

It was worth it just for NFL Sunday Tix in HD (only avaliable on D-TV if memory serves me.) If you are going to be in L-burg for a while it is certainly worth the trouble to get an antenna and one of the sat. packages... my opinion is that "set-up" will stay ahead of cable here.

Ok lets take this step by step:

Dish Network is currently ahead of D-TV because they bought into Voom ( a failed HD network ) and they use those channels. D-TV is currently in negotiations to buy the company that owns Voom thus they both could have those channels ( that's as basic as i know how to explain it ). When we are to get locals is anyones guess, i have heard by the end of this year from the retailers, but that means pretty much nothing.

While D-TV does have the NFL package, not all NFL games are currently Broadcast in HD. As you will notice Fox will adverstise the coming weeks games and not all will have the HD beside them( i would hope that would change by next year). D-TV, i believe has the exclusive rights to the NFL for about 3-4 more years and then its going to be an open contract again.
I am not aware of any cable company having access to 40-50 HD channels either, i haven't seen that many listed anywhere because the networks have to upgrade there equipment first and only a few have done it so far because of the cost. Plus Voom isn't available to cable to my knowledge and thats 20 channels right off the bat.
It will be interesting to see what how DTV can broadcast March Madness( or any sport for that matter) in HD when local games around here aren't broadcast in HD and D-TV is just piggybacking that signal? I know this happens in other areas as well.

The Antenna thing is the way to go, and depending on the amount of money you spend i have known of people who can pick up Blacksburg stations from Forest depending on the power of your antenna.

[fsn32]

Stop SMOKING THE BUD.....component cables will NEVER i repeat NEVER be the same quality as HD, you have lost your mind. If your TV has a tuner just hook up an antenna ( not matter if you live underground or not ) and see what type of signal you get, its really not that hard. You just have to run the "Program Channels" feature and if you have a digital tuner it should show you how many digital and analog signals you can receive. When its complete surf around and see what you get or move you antenna around because that can improve your signal strength.

There is not a big difference in HDMI and component. I have a DirecTV setup and have the component output going to one TV and the HDMI to another and I would be willing to bet you that you can't tell the difference from one to another. Now if you are talking COMPOSITE, then you are right... it is not capable to carry HD... but COMPONENT seems to work just fine and is standard install for DirecTV.

Jamie again your wrong, do the research....if both Tv's have an HD tuner( and have the HD package from DTV with an HD receiver) and are capable of showing HD, component isn't even close. I am more than willing to take that bet. You also have to get into some Tv's menus and manually release them to show a picture better than 480i ( or basically DVD quality) so if thats not done correctly it won't work either. I know Directv may set up and HD box for you but that doesn't mean they also set you individual TV up correctly for optimal viewing, i have seen it on numerous occasions and had to help fix the problem.

AGAIN? This is the first thing I said.

Also, I didn't say that HDMI wasn't better, I just said that component would work. I had the two TV's sitting next to each other, one being fed by HDMI and one by component and I couldn't tell the difference. (On an HD channel.)

I have a friend that has an HDTV with component and it looks great. Maybe it would be even better with HDMI but you are making it sound like component will make your TV look like a talkie movie from the 1920's.

This is from CNET...

If you have a high-definition DirecTV receiver, such as the HD TiVo, you can use a component-video cable to connect your satellite box to your TV and enjoy high-def. If you're routing video through a receiver, you'll need more than one such cable.

If your TV is equipped with an HDMI or DVI input and your box has a matching output, you should use that connection, which means buying an HDMI cable or a DVI-to-HDMI cable (depending on what input your TV has).

So HDMI is better but component will work, that was my point. Trust me, I did a TON of research before I made these purchases.

One more quote from CNET...

Make the right connection. HDTVs have a lot of different connections, and not all of them will carry HDTV signals. First off, we recommend buying an HDTV that has at least one HDMI input. HDMI is the most future-ready input type, and due to copy-protection concerns, it's necessary to get the most out of some HDTV sources. If your source has an HDMI output, we recommend using it. If not, connect via component video, which is the second-highest-quality input type. There are a couple other HD-level connections: HDTV antennas connect via standard antenna wire, and some HD sources use FireWire or computer connections, but they're rare. Aside from computer jacks themselves, the rest of the connections on the back of the TV, namely composite and S-Video, are not high-def. For a full rundown of different video connections, click here.


If component wasn't Hi-def don't you think they would have added it to this list? lastly, here is a chart on a HDTV buying guide...



Obviously HDMI is best... but broadband component is HD ready and is listed as "very high" quality capable of 1080i. Research done.

[mrmacphisto]

If you have the Explorer 8300HD box that came from Comcast (Adelphia) turn the power off on the box then hold the Guide and Info buttons down with your TV on. This will initiate the HDTV Setup Wizard to set your box to output for your TV. Here's a link to the information on this particular box: http://www.grandecom.net/site-file.php?fid=51

Thanks for that, Adam. I thought you'd found the solution at first, but after running the wizard, I still get the matting. Right now the news is on, so I'll try to take some photos when Letterman comes on, so you all can see what it does to HD programs.

[mrmacphisto]

Okay, I'm going to post some images of what I see (more or less) on my TV screen when I tune to an HD station on my cable box. The photos are relatively poor quality due to my ancient digital camera. The lens actually warps the picture a little, making my TV at times look like it's bowing outward like a tube TV. Anyway, the photos should be enough to give you an idea of what I'm seeing.

First of all, everything displays as if it is SD, with matting on any sides needed to preserve the aspect ratio. Here's a photo of my screen from when the news (which broadcasts in SD on the HD channel) was on:



I cropped the screen area (16:9) as best as I could. I didn't have a perfect straight-on angle, and even if I did, the lens would probably warp the picture. You'll notice the dark gray matting on the top and bottom, light gray on the sides, and the black bars outside the gray.

Here's what an HD program looks like:



You'll note the HD aspect ratio, with gray matting on the top and bottom, with the SD black bars on the left and right.

Ideally, the HD program would fill my screen, which would look something like this:



I can use the zoom function on my TV to fill the screen, but a small portion of the image will be cropped, and more importantly, it's not true HD. I'm hoping HDMI cables will fix the problem, but if not, I may just have to call Comcast support, which I'm guessing will be of no help.

So that's what I'm seeing. If you guys have any ideas, please share. I love having an HDTV and access to HD channels, but hate that I'm unable to see these channels the way they're supposed to be seen. My TV is great for watching widescreen DVDs, but I'd like to be able to watch next week's 24 in HD.

[fsn32]

Robbie... where are you (echo)?

[givemethemic]

Same place where the refs were a while ago.....Under his desk at work

[givemethemic]

I still got love for you Rocketfan....

[mrmacphisto]

Found out the problem after doing a little more research online (and this will show how much of a newbie I am at this). Composite cables only work with 480i. For HD, you need component, DVI or HDMI. I tried component cables, and they fixed the whole matting thing. Of course, I'm using that input for my DVD player, so I definitely need to get the HDMI cable to start watching HD through my cable box. For now, I guess I'll just switch the cables over when I want to watch a DVD. Anyway, I'm just glad I found the solution and wanted to throw that information out there for anyone who may not have known.

[fsn32]

Found out the problem after doing a little more research online (and this will show how much of a newbie I am at this). Composite cables only work with 480i. For HD, you need component, DVI or HDMI. I tried component cables, and they fixed the whole matting thing. Of course, I'm using that input for my DVD player, so I definitely need to get the HDMI cable to start watching HD through my cable box. For now, I guess I'll just switch the cables over when I want to watch a DVD. Anyway, I'm just glad I found the solution and wanted to throw that information out there for anyone who may not have known.

You should have looked at my chart

Actually i got so involved in the HDMI-component battle I didn't notice you had said "composite" (you would have thought that they could come up with two names that aren't so similar.)

[El Scorcho]

Or you'd think they would have just invented a single cable that carries everything on it. Oh wait.

[LUconn]

S video. I've never seen anybody use that. It seems so simple but according to the chart it's not as good.

[El Scorcho]

S-video is analog. It's not bad if you're using analog signals anyway, but in the digital realm, eh.

I was referring to HDMI.

[fsn32]

I agree 100% that HDMI is the way to go... I was just arguing with Rocketship that you can use Component and it looks fine.

[mrmacphisto]

HD looks amazing with component; I watched HD for the first time on my TV tonight. Can't wait to step up to HDMI.

[fsn32]

Let me know if you can tell the difference (HDMI vs. Component)... personally I can't tell them apart.

[Rocketfan]

Robbie... where are you (echo)?

I had a job interview in Nashville at the end of last week, sorry couldn't check flamefans.....

Basically it boils down to this....HDMI contain the same signals as component only in a digital format....component is analog which has a higher risk of distortion....

Now i know there are some component digital cables that cost more( not sure if thats what you have or not), and i can't understand why you wouldn't just upgrade to HDMI then if you had the oppurtunity. I know you gave me a CNET review but ill go with suggestions in articles from Sound & Vision personally or actual user reviews online which seem to sway towards HDMI all things equal.

As far as you HD/DVR - i am suprised if you researched that machine you still own it. I called DTV personally and spoke to some managers and that model has some major issues and they actually stopped making them to figure out how to fix the problems. I was supposed to get one last year but after a few week delay i figured all this info out, those things had HDMI inputs somehow wired wrong or something which causes the component to actuallly look far better. Just and FYI.

[fsn32]

Robbie... where are you (echo)?

I had a job interview in Nashville at the end of last week, sorry couldn't check flamefans.....

Basically it boils down to this....HDMI contain the same signals as component only in a digital format....component is analog which has a higher risk of distortion....

Now i know there are some component digital cables that cost more( not sure if thats what you have or not), and i can't understand why you wouldn't just upgrade to HDMI then if you had the oppurtunity. I know you gave me a CNET review but ill go with suggestions in articles from Sound & Vision personally or actual user reviews online which seem to sway towards HDMI all things equal.

As far as you HD/DVR - i am suprised if you researched that machine you still own it. I called DTV personally and spoke to some managers and that model has some major issues and they actually stopped making them to figure out how to fix the problems. I was supposed to get one last year but after a few week delay i figured all this info out, those things had HDMI inputs somehow wired wrong or something which causes the component to actuallly look far better. Just and FYI.

"i can't understand why you wouldn't just upgrade to HDMI then if you had the oppurtunity."
I'm pretty sure that I mentioned what I did earlier but let me say it again in case I didn't do a good job describing it before... I have the DTV going to two TV's... one with HDMI upstairs and component in my basement game room... thus my experience with both.

I got one of the first DTV HD DVR's right off the truck... the glitches (or extent) were not really known at that point. I ordered it before it was on the market. Still, it is better to have glitchy HD than no HD. It works like a charm 90% of the time and when it does go nuts it only takes a reboot to clean it up. Also, since it is a lease, I'm sure if there is a recall those of us with this can upgrade. From what I have read it isn't a physical problem as much as a software issue and they are uploading bug fixes weekly. I haven't noticed the HDMI problem you spoke of so I am assuming the wiring issue must be isolated.

I think for the most part we are on the same page here... I just get amused that everything has to be so definitive with you... it's "this way" or crap. Either people agree with you or they are "smoking" or "wrong again." I love you brother, but it is so much fun to argue with you because no matter how many facts are thrown your way, you still make the banter so primitive and often personal.

You made this out like I was saying component is better than HDMI when I said no less than 5 times that I know HDMI is better but that component will work. That's all I said, and backed it up with facts and personal experience. No need to get defensive, no need to get snotty... life isn't a sports talk show.

[Rocketfan]

Robbie... where are you (echo)?

I had a job interview in Nashville at the end of last week, sorry couldn't check flamefans.....

Basically it boils down to this....HDMI contain the same signals as component only in a digital format....component is analog which has a higher risk of distortion....

Now i know there are some component digital cables that cost more( not sure if thats what you have or not), and i can't understand why you wouldn't just upgrade to HDMI then if you had the oppurtunity. I know you gave me a CNET review but ill go with suggestions in articles from Sound & Vision personally or actual user reviews online which seem to sway towards HDMI all things equal.

As far as you HD/DVR - i am suprised if you researched that machine you still own it. I called DTV personally and spoke to some managers and that model has some major issues and they actually stopped making them to figure out how to fix the problems. I was supposed to get one last year but after a few week delay i figured all this info out, those things had HDMI inputs somehow wired wrong or something which causes the component to actuallly look far better. Just and FYI.

"i can't understand why you wouldn't just upgrade to HDMI then if you had the oppurtunity."
I'm pretty sure that I mentioned what I did earlier but let me say it again in case I didn't do a good job describing it before... I have the DTV going to two TV's... one with HDMI upstairs and component in my basement game room... thus my experience with both.

I got one of the first DTV HD DVR's right off the truck... the glitches (or extent) were not really known at that point. I ordered it before it was on the market. Still, it is better to have glitchy HD than no HD. It works like a charm 90% of the time and when it does go nuts it only takes a reboot to clean it up. Also, since it is a lease, I'm sure if there is a recall those of us with this can upgrade. From what I have read it isn't a physical problem as much as a software issue and they are uploading bug fixes weekly. I haven't noticed the HDMI problem you spoke of so I am assuming the wiring issue must be isolated.

I think for the most part we are on the same page here... I just get amused that everything has to be so definitive with you... it's "this way" or crap. Either people agree with you or they are "smoking" or "wrong again." I love you brother, but it is so much fun to argue with you because no matter how many facts are thrown your way, you still make the banter so primitive and often personal.

You made this out like I was saying component is better than HDMI when I said no less than 5 times that I know HDMI is better but that component will work. That's all I said, and backed it up with facts and personal experience. No need to get defensive, no need to get snotty... life isn't a sports talk show.

I was just trying to be passionate about giving the right info, didn't want people to invest in something that is already outdated is all. I know you said component was "just as good" a few times and i didn't want people to think they shouldn't at least try both before coming to there own conclusion. We are basically on the same page you are correct, but when i say other people are smoking something that refers to HDMI and regular component cables( or analog vs. digital basically).....if its not digital you just aren't going to see the true potential of the technology.

If i were going to make the banter primitive or personal, i would say " Lady Flames Win" ( with a high pitched voice cracking) - i can still hear you calling the UVA win in my ear haha. Again thats all in fun though. Trust me i love arguing with you as well but i can think of a situation where you took my stance as well......Quick example, i remember when you used to tell Joe Portnoy that he couldn't play the truly "Hard Rock" music first thing in the morning and that format should never be played that early in the morning........now i occasionaly wake up turn on the radio and that music wakes me up pretty fast. So in fact we may be more alike than you think.

[givemethemic]

can't we all just get along

[LUconn]

haha, oh what it must be like to be a coms major. In the business department we don't argue. We negotiate our way out of disagreements. More often than not, negotiations fail and the prof wins.

[fsn32]

I had a job interview in Nashville at the end of last week, sorry couldn't check flamefans.....

Basically it boils down to this....HDMI contain the same signals as component only in a digital format....component is analog which has a higher risk of distortion....

Now i know there are some component digital cables that cost more( not sure if thats what you have or not), and i can't understand why you wouldn't just upgrade to HDMI then if you had the oppurtunity. I know you gave me a CNET review but ill go with suggestions in articles from Sound & Vision personally or actual user reviews online which seem to sway towards HDMI all things equal.

As far as you HD/DVR - i am suprised if you researched that machine you still own it. I called DTV personally and spoke to some managers and that model has some major issues and they actually stopped making them to figure out how to fix the problems. I was supposed to get one last year but after a few week delay i figured all this info out, those things had HDMI inputs somehow wired wrong or something which causes the component to actuallly look far better. Just and FYI.

"i can't understand why you wouldn't just upgrade to HDMI then if you had the oppurtunity."
I'm pretty sure that I mentioned what I did earlier but let me say it again in case I didn't do a good job describing it before... I have the DTV going to two TV's... one with HDMI upstairs and component in my basement game room... thus my experience with both.

I got one of the first DTV HD DVR's right off the truck... the glitches (or extent) were not really known at that point. I ordered it before it was on the market. Still, it is better to have glitchy HD than no HD. It works like a charm 90% of the time and when it does go nuts it only takes a reboot to clean it up. Also, since it is a lease, I'm sure if there is a recall those of us with this can upgrade. From what I have read it isn't a physical problem as much as a software issue and they are uploading bug fixes weekly. I haven't noticed the HDMI problem you spoke of so I am assuming the wiring issue must be isolated.

I think for the most part we are on the same page here... I just get amused that everything has to be so definitive with you... it's "this way" or crap. Either people agree with you or they are "smoking" or "wrong again." I love you brother, but it is so much fun to argue with you because no matter how many facts are thrown your way, you still make the banter so primitive and often personal.

You made this out like I was saying component is better than HDMI when I said no less than 5 times that I know HDMI is better but that component will work. That's all I said, and backed it up with facts and personal experience. No need to get defensive, no need to get snotty... life isn't a sports talk show.

I was just trying to be passionate about giving the right info, didn't want people to invest in something that is already outdated is all. I know you said component was "just as good" a few times and i didn't want people to think they shouldn't at least try both before coming to there own conclusion. We are basically on the same page you are correct, but when i say other people are smoking something that refers to HDMI and regular component cables( or analog vs. digital basically).....if its not digital you just aren't going to see the true potential of the technology.

If i were going to make the banter primitive or personal, i would say " Lady Flames Win" ( with a high pitched voice cracking) - i can still hear you calling the UVA win in my ear haha. Again thats all in fun though. Trust me i love arguing with you as well but i can think of a situation where you took my stance as well......Quick example, i remember when you used to tell Joe Portnoy that he couldn't play the truly "Hard Rock" music first thing in the morning and that format should never be played that early in the morning........now i occasionaly wake up turn on the radio and that music wakes me up pretty fast. So in fact we may be more alike than you think.

HA... you have a better memory than me that's for sure... that was a situation of relativity though... we were still playing MWS and SCC in the afternoon and Joe was playing heavy stuff in the morning... we still have the same policy it's just the styles have changes... we play heavier stuff all day so the morning has gotten "faster" too. It's the evolution of music... I will be the first to admit that Joe was ahead of the curve.

As for the "just as good," statement, I was referring to the naked eye in my set-up... I said I couldn't tell the difference and you were willing to bet that you could tell a big difference... but let's put that behind us. I don't wasn't this to go too far, b/c we might have to bring up some of the riveting discussions on "The Penalty Box"... or should I say the discussions that made people want to shoot rivets in their ears

[Rocketfan]

"i can't understand why you wouldn't just upgrade to HDMI then if you had the oppurtunity."
I'm pretty sure that I mentioned what I did earlier but let me say it again in case I didn't do a good job describing it before... I have the DTV going to two TV's... one with HDMI upstairs and component in my basement game room... thus my experience with both.

I got one of the first DTV HD DVR's right off the truck... the glitches (or extent) were not really known at that point. I ordered it before it was on the market. Still, it is better to have glitchy HD than no HD. It works like a charm 90% of the time and when it does go nuts it only takes a reboot to clean it up. Also, since it is a lease, I'm sure if there is a recall those of us with this can upgrade. From what I have read it isn't a physical problem as much as a software issue and they are uploading bug fixes weekly. I haven't noticed the HDMI problem you spoke of so I am assuming the wiring issue must be isolated.

I think for the most part we are on the same page here... I just get amused that everything has to be so definitive with you... it's "this way" or crap. Either people agree with you or they are "smoking" or "wrong again." I love you brother, but it is so much fun to argue with you because no matter how many facts are thrown your way, you still make the banter so primitive and often personal.

You made this out like I was saying component is better than HDMI when I said no less than 5 times that I know HDMI is better but that component will work. That's all I said, and backed it up with facts and personal experience. No need to get defensive, no need to get snotty... life isn't a sports talk show.

I was just trying to be passionate about giving the right info, didn't want people to invest in something that is already outdated is all. I know you said component was "just as good" a few times and i didn't want people to think they shouldn't at least try both before coming to there own conclusion. We are basically on the same page you are correct, but when i say other people are smoking something that refers to HDMI and regular component cables( or analog vs. digital basically).....if its not digital you just aren't going to see the true potential of the technology.

If i were going to make the banter primitive or personal, i would say " Lady Flames Win" ( with a high pitched voice cracking) - i can still hear you calling the UVA win in my ear haha. Again thats all in fun though. Trust me i love arguing with you as well but i can think of a situation where you took my stance as well......Quick example, i remember when you used to tell Joe Portnoy that he couldn't play the truly "Hard Rock" music first thing in the morning and that format should never be played that early in the morning........now i occasionaly wake up turn on the radio and that music wakes me up pretty fast. So in fact we may be more alike than you think.

HA... you have a better memory than me that's for sure... that was a situation of relativity though... we were still playing MWS and SCC in the afternoon and Joe was playing heavy stuff in the morning... we still have the same policy it's just the styles have changes... we play heavier stuff all day so the morning has gotten "faster" too. It's the evolution of music... I will be the first to admit that Joe was ahead of the curve.

As for the "just as good," statement, I was referring to the naked eye in my set-up... I said I couldn't tell the difference and you were willing to bet that you could tell a big difference... but let's put that behind us. I don't wasn't this to go too far, b/c we might have to bring up some of the riveting discussions on "The Penalty Box"... or should I say the discussions that made people want to shoot rivets in their ears

Come on Jamie....at least realize i changed the name when Dave left..... MY show was never called the penalty box.

[fsn32]

Hey I said my memory wasn't good... but you did it with Dave didn't you?