A Sea Of Red

stokesjokes wrote: ↑April 27th, 2022, 10:41 am Y’all are a mess. For a while we were having good, thoughtful conversation, but you just can’t help yourselves.

I can do both!
This is the essence of Liberal Twitter meltdown though. How can we “Superiors” expect the Unwashed Masses to know what’s good for them unless We tell them. It’s why you see quotes like “How will we be able to combat Fake News!” Etc

There was a legitimate point in time where just about everyone was on board with doing something about “fake news” on these platforms. People just didn’t like that it ended up meaning stuff they liked got pulled.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen some strange takes on Twitter about this (that’s what Twitter is), but y’all pivoted into arguing against a caricature of a viewpoint that nobody here is expressing. It’s like you’re not satisfied until someone says “hey aren’t liberals DUMB!”

I know, I know, “lighten up, Francis.”

stokesjokes wrote: ↑April 27th, 2022, 12:27 pm There was a legitimate point in time where just about everyone was on board with doing something about “fake news” on these platforms. People just didn’t like that it ended up meaning stuff they liked got pulled.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen some strange takes on Twitter about this (that’s what Twitter is), but y’all pivoted into arguing against a caricature of a viewpoint that nobody here is expressing. It’s like you’re not satisfied until someone says “hey aren’t liberals DUMB!”

I know, I know, “lighten up, Francis.”

I disagree with your original statement. Unless by “Something” you mean ignore, tune out or rebutt. I don’t recall a mad rush of Conservatives seeking to ban others on Twitter. Disagree with? Yes. But not ask for a ban.

Purple Haize wrote: ↑April 27th, 2022, 12:38 pm

stokesjokes wrote: ↑April 27th, 2022, 12:27 pm There was a legitimate point in time where just about everyone was on board with doing something about “fake news” on these platforms. People just didn’t like that it ended up meaning stuff they liked got pulled.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen some strange takes on Twitter about this (that’s what Twitter is), but y’all pivoted into arguing against a caricature of a viewpoint that nobody here is expressing. It’s like you’re not satisfied until someone says “hey aren’t liberals DUMB!”

I know, I know, “lighten up, Francis.”

I disagree with your original statement. Unless by “Something” you mean ignore, tune out or rebutt. I don’t recall a mad rush of Conservatives seeking to ban others on Twitter. Disagree with? Yes. But not ask for a ban.

BINGO...

Big difference between tuning out or asking someone to be banned. That's a Liberal's tactic...

I'm not specifically thinking of twitter or the chosen methods of dealing with fake news, but I'm saying most people across political affiliation were saying "this fake news stuff is bad, we've got to do something about it."

Look at the data from 2019:

https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/ ... -be-fixed/

79% of people were saying steps should be taken to restrict fake news. Republicans were more likely to view it as a problem than Democrats.

Now, how does that look in practice? Social media companies adopt policies in their terms and conditions about it, if you publish or repeatedly share fake news, you get kicked off. Now, that alone doesn't sound bad. In fact, it sounds like the free market taking care of the problem to me. Private companies seeing that people don't like that their platforms are used to push fake stories and responding. The sticky bit is that someone has to be the arbiter of what's fake and what isn't.

Add in that the two biggest sources of fake news since 2020 are COVID and the election, both issues where the fake news skews heavily to the right, and you have a recipe for a perceived anti-conservative conspiracy.

stokesjokes wrote: ↑April 27th, 2022, 1:47 pm
Add in that the two biggest sources of fake news since 2020 are COVID and the election, both issues where the fake news skews heavily to the right, and you have a recipe for a perceived anti-conservative conspiracy.

What is the COVID and election fake news that you are referencing?

SumItUp wrote: ↑April 27th, 2022, 2:19 pm

stokesjokes wrote: ↑April 27th, 2022, 1:47 pm
Add in that the two biggest sources of fake news since 2020 are COVID and the election, both issues where the fake news skews heavily to the right, and you have a recipe for a perceived anti-conservative conspiracy.

What is the COVID and election fake news that you are referencing?

This ought to be good. Popcorn (check)....coke (check)....

SumItUp wrote: ↑April 27th, 2022, 2:19 pm

stokesjokes wrote: ↑April 27th, 2022, 1:47 pm
Add in that the two biggest sources of fake news since 2020 are COVID and the election, both issues where the fake news skews heavily to the right, and you have a recipe for a perceived anti-conservative conspiracy.

What is the COVID and election fake news that you are referencing?

There's a vague middle ground here of stuff that I might call dubious, misleading, or unverified, but we don't even have to include stuff like that.

There's a whole swath of stories that are verifiably false related to those things. Stories about Hugo Chavez being behind Dominion voting machine fraud or microchips being injected through the COVID vaccine, that kind of thing. Heck, I know a guy who told me that everyone who got a COVID vaccine would be dead within a year, I don't think he was just making it up on his own.

Rona and the 2020 Election are perfect for the Public Square. Twitter decided to ban one side of the discussion

Twitter was very overzealous in its moderation, yes, I agree.

I found this twitter thread very helpful in understanding the role moderation should play on social media:

I wondered if Trump was trying to get himself kicked off Twitter back when his was posting weird stuff about Joe Scarborough snuffing his mistress. A Twitter ban has to be on the table there.

Can't remember what he ultimately got banned for. But once he actually got banned, it's almost like they didn't know where to stop. If I had to guess, I'd say it probably has more to due with incompetence than anything else. Unqualified people in high places, with a small view of the world.

stokesjokes wrote: ↑April 27th, 2022, 3:43 pm

SumItUp wrote: ↑April 27th, 2022, 2:19 pm

stokesjokes wrote: ↑April 27th, 2022, 1:47 pm
Add in that the two biggest sources of fake news since 2020 are COVID and the election, both issues where the fake news skews heavily to the right, and you have a recipe for a perceived anti-conservative conspiracy.

What is the COVID and election fake news that you are referencing?

There's a vague middle ground here of stuff that I might call dubious, misleading, or unverified, but we don't even have to include stuff like that.

There's a whole swath of stories that are verifiably false related to those things. Stories about Hugo Chavez being behind Dominion voting machine fraud or microchips being injected through the COVID vaccine, that kind of thing. Heck, I know a guy who told me that everyone who got a COVID vaccine would be dead within a year, I don't think he was just making it up on his own.

A dead socialist dictating tyrant and something some guy said. That's all you've got. You can do better. Legitimate conversations have been shut down for the last two years and the narratives have been presented as settled. You stated the two biggest sources of fake news were the election and Covid. What is the fake news?

I was just giving ridiculous examples off the top of my head of things I've seen. I'm not sure what you're driving at, there's been so many. Anything from Lin Wood or Sidney Powell for starters. Apparently there's a story going around that COVID vaccines are from snake venom. The "plandemic" nonsense. Have you really not seen fake news stories from COVID and the election?

You talking about the 2016 election and all the fake Russian conspiracy stories that they got Trump elected? I don't think those were censored if I recall correctly.

stokesjokes wrote: ↑April 27th, 2022, 4:00 pm Twitter was very overzealous in its moderation, yes, I agree.

I found this twitter thread very helpful in understanding the role moderation should play on social media:

This guy (?) uses a lot of words to say nothing

The central thesis is that you moderate behavior, not ideas. If people are behaving in ways that will stifle ideas or negatively affect the community, they get punished, but all ideas are welcome.

flamehunter wrote: ↑April 27th, 2022, 5:02 pm You talking about the 2016 election and all the fake Russian conspiracy stories that they got Trump elected? I don't think those were censored if I recall correctly.

Honestly, that’s probably why the data skews the way it does in the 2019 study.

stokesjokes wrote: ↑April 27th, 2022, 6:30 pm The central thesis is that you moderate behavior, not ideas. If people are behaving in ways that will stifle ideas or negatively affect the community, they get punished, but all ideas are welcome.

Moderation, in this context, is just a euphemism for suppression. Motivation appears to be ideological. The Alex Berenson situation is a clear unequivocal example of Twitter suppressing ideas.

I don't remember if Twitter banned Kathy Griffin, but they did it to the Babylon Bee. Can't imagine a free society that overreacts to satire. It's an unfortunate and ominous sign.

paradox wrote: ↑April 27th, 2022, 7:45 pm

stokesjokes wrote: ↑April 27th, 2022, 6:30 pm The central thesis is that you moderate behavior, not ideas. If people are behaving in ways that will stifle ideas or negatively affect the community, they get punished, but all ideas are welcome.

Moderation, in this context, is just a euphemism for suppression. Motivation appears to be ideological. The Alex Berenson situation is a clear unequivocal example of Twitter suppressing ideas.

I don't remember if Twitter banned Kathy Griffin, but they did it to the Babylon Bee. Can't imagine a free society that overreacts to satire. It's an unfortunate and ominous sign.

You’re missing the point here. The point isn’t that this is what Twitter does or has done, the point is that this is how moderation should be done. The guy was asked what Musk could do to improve Twitter, this was his response.

Musk won't be quibbling in petty dogmatism. Problem solved.

paradox wrote: ↑April 28th, 2022, 4:54 pm Musk won't be quibbling in petty dogmatism. Problem solved.

Did you threaten to kill someone? No
Are you harassing someone? No
Racial slurs? No
Illegal Content? No

Done. Game on

I agree that twitter has often gone overboard in what they decided to censor and oftentimes seemed one-sided but I also don't buy into this whole twitter is the public square nonsense. Regardless twitter is a cess pool. Always has been unless you are extremely intentional with it and most people aren't. Musk and his free speech crusade won't change that. Because people are the worst.

thepostman wrote: ↑April 28th, 2022, 7:35 pm I agree that twitter has often gone overboard in what they decided to censor and oftentimes seemed one-sided but I also don't buy into this whole twitter is the public square nonsense. Regardless twitter is a cess pool. Always has been unless you are extremely intentional with it and most people aren't. Musk and his free speech crusade won't change that. Because people are the worst.

If it’s not the Public Square then what is it? It meets an awful lot of the criteria in the modern world.
People are the worst and Twitter can be a cesspool. BUT it’s also where people go for information and entertainment. It’s where people go to promote themselves and their views. People go there to find out what’s going on. People also go there to be awful.
It certainly isn’t a publisher like a newspaper or a broadcaster like TV or Radio.
So what is it?

The internet is the public square. Twitter is a private club in the public square. It’s the private square.

stokesjokes wrote: ↑April 28th, 2022, 10:48 pm The internet is the public square. Twitter is a private club in the public square. It’s the private square.

Maybe. But that’s not how it touts itself. I’d buy that argument if they did. I’d buy that argument if they were treated that way legally. But alas Twitter is very Public in the Public Square. Their Board may have treated it as a Private Club but that’s not it became functionally