[TH Spangler]

If you don't support Ukraine, you haven't studied history. Expanionist dictators won't stop expanding. If Ukraine falls today, it'll be Moldova tomorrow, and then Russian/Belarussian troops will be marching into Poland, the Baltics, etc... the day after that.

I don’t believe it’s that cut and dry, but I see your historical point.

Do you believe Ukraine should be admitted to NATO?

Been poking Russia with that stick for a while. Most likely, why we're where we are today. I feel for the average Ukrainian citizen, global corruption has surrounded them for years, east and west.

Closet democrats crack me up . If someone disagrees with them on Ukraine policy, they're a Putin puppet. If someone thinks President Obama gutted socially conservative officers from military leadership while fundamentally changing America, they call them racist.

Biden policy has managed to united Russia, China and Iran.

[ATrain]

If you don't support Ukraine, you haven't studied history. Expanionist dictators won't stop expanding. If Ukraine falls today, it'll be Moldova tomorrow, and then Russian/Belarussian troops will be marching into Poland, the Baltics, etc... the day after that.

I don’t believe it’s that cut and dry, but I see your historical point.

Do you believe Ukraine should be admitted to NATO?

It was established in 2008 that Ukraine would join NATO at some point. Putin just didn't do anything until it was clear that Obama wasn't willing to enforce red lines that he drew (i.e. Syria), thus the annexation of Crimea in 2014.

[Purple Haize]

So we just aren’t going to discuss the big news out of NYC?
Rule of thumb - It’s never a good idea to make a martyr of your opponent

[ATrain]

Not sure that news changed anyone's mind.

[TH Spangler]

Elon Musk tweeted, “The proscriptions of Marius led to the proscriptions of Sulla”.

I admit, I had to look it up.

Refers to a historical sequence of events during the late Roman Republic, where the political and social turmoil escalated into a series of violent purges.

Proscriptions were essentially a form of legalized terror, where individuals were declared outlaws, stripped of their citizenship, and their property was confiscated. Anyone could kill a proscribed person without legal repercussions, and rewards were often offered for their execution.

Marius’ proscriptions: In 87 BCE, after returning to power for his seventh consulship, Gaius Marius and his ally Lucius Cornelius Cinna initiated a purge against their political enemies, which was one of the first instances of proscription in Roman history.

Sulla’s proscriptions: Later, in 82 BCE, Lucius Cornelius Sulla, after defeating Marius’ party in a civil war, issued his own proscriptions, which were far more extensive and brutal. Sulla’s proscriptions targeted not only political opponents but also wealthy individuals whose assets could be seized to finance his military campaigns.

The statement suggests that the actions taken by Marius set a precedent that enabled Sulla to carry out his own proscriptions on a larger scale, leading to a period of significant political violence and instability in Rome. It’s a reflection on how one act of political violence can lead to another, creating a cycle of retribution and terror.

[Purple Haize]

Not sure that news changed anyone's mind.

I disagree. I think it’s backfiring on the Democrats. I have seen several people state that they despise Trump but will vote for him now because of this. I’ve seen few if any who say they WONT vote for him because of it I’ve seen none who say they will vote for Biden because of this.

[thepostman]

Come on...those people were always going to vote for Trump anyways.

Does this really hurt Trump like dems are claiming? Of course not. But it's comical seeing all these people saying "I hate Trump but I'm voting for him now"...

These 2 are both historically bad candidates.

It changes nothing.

Also. Trump is a criminal. Has been way before he became president. He just always had good lawyers..now all the good ones are staying clear. I wonder why....

Anyways. I was probably never voting for Trump this election but this helps finalize that.

[Purple Haize]

Come on...those people were always going to vote for Trump anyways.

Does this really hurt Trump like dems are claiming? Of course not. But it's comical seeing all these people saying "I hate Trump but I'm voting for him now"...

These 2 are both historically bad candidates.

It changes nothing.

Also. Trump is a criminal. Has been way before he became president. He just always had good lawyers..now all the good ones are staying clear. I wonder why....

Anyways. I was probably never voting for Trump this election but this helps finalize that.

I disagree. There are several high profile people who never voted for Trump that have stated they are going to this time. What happened in NYC is a travesty. If he was a criminal he’d have been caught and convicted long before this. But this case is a completely different animal. This cannot stand. Creating crimes to specifically target your political opponents cannot be allowed. And now that it has happened the Party responsible needs to be held accountable. You ARE correct that these are 2 historically bad candidates. However, this action clearly makes Biden and his Administration a direct threat to the foundations of America. The most unfortunate part of this is that these are now the rules. I fully expect this to now occur on both sides for the foreseeable future.

[Yacht Rock]

So you’re saying it was never illegal to falsify records to pay off the porn star you cheated on your wife with? That wasn’t a crime?

[thepostman]

Come on...those people were always going to vote for Trump anyways.

Does this really hurt Trump like dems are claiming? Of course not. But it's comical seeing all these people saying "I hate Trump but I'm voting for him now"...

These 2 are both historically bad candidates.

It changes nothing.

Also. Trump is a criminal. Has been way before he became president. He just always had good lawyers..now all the good ones are staying clear. I wonder why....

Anyways. I was probably never voting for Trump this election but this helps finalize that.

I disagree. There are several high profile people who never voted for Trump that have stated they are going to this time. What happened in NYC is a travesty. If he was a criminal he’d have been caught and convicted long before this. But this case is a completely different animal. This cannot stand. Creating crimes to specifically target your political opponents cannot be allowed. And now that it has happened the Party responsible needs to be held accountable. You ARE correct that these are 2 historically bad candidates. However, this action clearly makes Biden and his Administration a direct threat to the foundations of America. The most unfortunate part of this is that these are now the rules. I fully expect this to now occur on both sides for the foreseeable future.

A travesty??? guys the dude broke the law. He thought it would be fine because he's done it for years and got away with it. He will get a slap on wrist and move on.

Was it probably a waste of time? I think so.

This whole thing is, as you would say, a nothing burger. The right will continue to use it to try to pretend they're being persecuted. The left will use it to pretend this somehow disqualifies Trump. Both tactics aren't going to do much to change minds. And any minds that have been changed likely cancel eachother out.

[ATrain]

I agree with @thepostman on the situation. However, there is still 1 thing Trump could promise to earn my vote. He won't promise it, and if he did, he'd probably break it like 90% of his other promises, but its an issue Biden betrayed me on, so...

[TH Spangler]

Come on...those people were always going to vote for Trump anyways.

Does this really hurt Trump like dems are claiming? Of course not. But it's comical seeing all these people saying "I hate Trump but I'm voting for him now"...

These 2 are both historically bad candidates.

It changes nothing.

Also. Trump is a criminal. Has been way before he became president. He just always had good lawyers..now all the good ones are staying clear. I wonder why....

Anyways. I was probably never voting for Trump this election but this helps finalize that.

I disagree. There are several high profile people who never voted for Trump that have stated they are going to this time. What happened in NYC is a travesty. If he was a criminal he’d have been caught and convicted long before this. But this case is a completely different animal. This cannot stand. Creating crimes to specifically target your political opponents cannot be allowed. And now that it has happened the Party responsible needs to be held accountable. You ARE correct that these are 2 historically bad candidates. However, this action clearly makes Biden and his Administration a direct threat to the foundations of America. The most unfortunate part of this is that these are now the rules. I fully expect this to now occur on both sides for the foreseeable future.

Most investigated man in America. Time to investigate others. It will be interesting to see who he appoints as AG next time.

[Purple Haize]

So you’re saying it was never illegal to falsify records to pay off the porn star you cheated on your wife with? That wasn’t a crime?

It was a misdemeanor at best. Committed by Cohen and not him. A misdemeanor whose statute of limitations expired.

[Purple Haize]

Come on...those people were always going to vote for Trump anyways.

Does this really hurt Trump like dems are claiming? Of course not. But it's comical seeing all these people saying "I hate Trump but I'm voting for him now"...

These 2 are both historically bad candidates.

It changes nothing.

Also. Trump is a criminal. Has been way before he became president. He just always had good lawyers..now all the good ones are staying clear. I wonder why....

Anyways. I was probably never voting for Trump this election but this helps finalize that.

I disagree. There are several high profile people who never voted for Trump that have stated they are going to this time. What happened in NYC is a travesty. If he was a criminal he’d have been caught and convicted long before this. But this case is a completely different animal. This cannot stand. Creating crimes to specifically target your political opponents cannot be allowed. And now that it has happened the Party responsible needs to be held accountable. You ARE correct that these are 2 historically bad candidates. However, this action clearly makes Biden and his Administration a direct threat to the foundations of America. The most unfortunate part of this is that these are now the rules. I fully expect this to now occur on both sides for the foreseeable future.

A travesty??? guys the dude broke the law. He thought it would be fine because he's done it for years and got away with it. He will get a slap on wrist and move on.

Was it probably a waste of time? I think so.

This whole thing is, as you would say, a nothing burger. The right will continue to use it to try to pretend they're being persecuted. The left will use it to pretend this somehow disqualifies Trump. Both tactics aren't going to do much to change minds. And any minds that have been changed likely cancel eachother out.

It was at best a misdemeanor. Whose statute of limitations had expired. Which meant Bragg had to do genuflections to revive it AND juice it to a felony. You had a hand picked judge try the case. He wasn’t selected as judges normally are which again should be troubling. Legal minds on the Right Left and Center seem to be in agreement that this was a show trial. Lots of grounds for reversal on appeal. I don’t think it will happen though. I am fully prepared to have him be sentenced to prison time just before the GOP Convention

[Purple Haize]

Come on...those people were always going to vote for Trump anyways.

Does this really hurt Trump like dems are claiming? Of course not. But it's comical seeing all these people saying "I hate Trump but I'm voting for him now"...

These 2 are both historically bad candidates.

It changes nothing.

Also. Trump is a criminal. Has been way before he became president. He just always had good lawyers..now all the good ones are staying clear. I wonder why....

Anyways. I was probably never voting for Trump this election but this helps finalize that.

I disagree. There are several high profile people who never voted for Trump that have stated they are going to this time. What happened in NYC is a travesty. If he was a criminal he’d have been caught and convicted long before this. But this case is a completely different animal. This cannot stand. Creating crimes to specifically target your political opponents cannot be allowed. And now that it has happened the Party responsible needs to be held accountable. You ARE correct that these are 2 historically bad candidates. However, this action clearly makes Biden and his Administration a direct threat to the foundations of America. The most unfortunate part of this is that these are now the rules. I fully expect this to now occur on both sides for the foreseeable future.

Most investigated man in America. Time to investigate others. It will be interesting to see who he appoints as AG next time.

Whoever it is I hope they play by the same rules this Administration is playing by. I don’t like them but these are the rules now

[thepostman]

This entire conversation is tiring. If you think something is wrong to do then stick to your convictions. The republican party used to stand for something and have principals unlike the other party. But Trump has re-created the party into his own image. And you guys are eating it up. And have from the beginning.

That is far more sad to me than anything else. So many good people just get sucked into such an anti-scripture type philosophy. Where anything goes. The means justify the ends.

I've made many vows to not respond to this god-foresaken thread and here I am responding again. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

I'm out. Have fun in November.

[JK37]

This entire conversation is tiring. If you think something is wrong to do then stick to your convictions. The republican party used to stand for something and have principals unlike the other party. But Trump has re-created the party into his own image. And you guys are eating it up. And have from the beginning.

That is far more sad to me than anything else. So many good people just get sucked into such an anti-scripture type philosophy. Where anything goes. The means justify the ends.

I've made many vows to not respond to this god-foresaken thread and here I am responding again. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

I'm out. Have fun in November.

Before you go……

Honest question: would the Republican Party as you remember it and wish it still was, be able to win elections in this current climate?

Not just your vote or mine? Would they WIN the ELECTIONS?

I strongly believe no. Which is why, for better or (mostly) worse, Trump/Biden is our destiny. We deserve this. We did this to ourselves.

[Purple Haize]

This entire conversation is tiring. If you think something is wrong to do then stick to your convictions. The republican party used to stand for something and have principals unlike the other party. But Trump has re-created the party into his own image. And you guys are eating it up. And have from the beginning.

That is far more sad to me than anything else. So many good people just get sucked into such an anti-scripture type philosophy. Where anything goes. The means justify the ends.

I've made many vows to not respond to this god-foresaken thread and here I am responding again. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

I'm out. Have fun in November.

I didn’t make the rules, I’m just advocating both sides playing by them. It is possible, dare I say vital, to separate Politics and Religion. As I’ve said from day 1 he is not a messiah figure. He also is not Satan incarnate.

[Purple Haize]

This entire conversation is tiring. If you think something is wrong to do then stick to your convictions. The republican party used to stand for something and have principals unlike the other party. But Trump has re-created the party into his own image. And you guys are eating it up. And have from the beginning.

That is far more sad to me than anything else. So many good people just get sucked into such an anti-scripture type philosophy. Where anything goes. The means justify the ends.

I've made many vows to not respond to this god-foresaken thread and here I am responding again. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

I'm out. Have fun in November.

Before you go……

Honest question: would the Republican Party as you remember it and wish it still was, be able to win elections in this current climate?

Not just your vote or mine? Would they WIN the ELECTIONS?

I strongly believe no. Which is why, for better or (mostly) worse, Trump/Biden is our destiny. We deserve this. We did this to ourselves.

We did. There were a host of much better candidates on the Republican side. I was more than happy to see Trump fade into the sunset. But here we are.

[TH Spangler]

We were not better before Trump. The enormous amount of corruption, pay to play, disappearing/waisted tax revenue and economic crony capitalisms was mostly behind closed curtains. Trump is a tool, hes allowing himself to be used by 80 million legal citizen voters, who want to clean things up. They're pulling the curtain back.

What happened in NY is just a continuation of the establishments resistance movement.

Thats coming from an independent registered voter.

[TH Spangler]

I disagree. There are several high profile people who never voted for Trump that have stated they are going to this time. What happened in NYC is a travesty. If he was a criminal he’d have been caught and convicted long before this. But this case is a completely different animal. This cannot stand. Creating crimes to specifically target your political opponents cannot be allowed. And now that it has happened the Party responsible needs to be held accountable. You ARE correct that these are 2 historically bad candidates. However, this action clearly makes Biden and his Administration a direct threat to the foundations of America. The most unfortunate part of this is that these are now the rules. I fully expect this to now occur on both sides for the foreseeable future.

Most investigated man in America. Time to investigate others. It will be interesting to see who he appoints as AG next time.

Whoever it is I hope they play by the same rules this Administration is playing by. I don’t like them but these are the rules now

John Ratcliff? Maybe?

[ATrain]

I remember when Republicans actually managed to get the budget balanced, and I was whole heartedly behind George W. Bush in 2000. I firmly believe he was the right man in charge on 9/11. However, they also abandoned fiscal responsibility under Bush 43, and the Tea Party seemed to bring some of that back, but then they became intractable nut cases who wanted everything or nothing. Now, the Republican Party is led by the self-proclaimed King of Debt, they'll hem and haw about anti-LGBTQ legislation while putting up headless torso profiles on Grindr at CPAC, get their knickers in a bunch over abortion without truly even understanding biology and fetal/infant development, used to be against dictators but are quite happy to let Putin romp around Ukraine, etc...

Even worse than that, our political parties today are really just cults. We claim we don't want a Trump/Biden rematch, or at least that's what the polls say, but we can't get off our collective gluteus maximuses to do whats necessary to stop it. Our country deserves what is likely coming to it, no matter who wins in November.

[/rant]

[TH Spangler]

If Trump gets his second term, history will be kind to him. We'll be in a better place. But first we'll have to endure several years of the old establishments resistance and anarchy in the streets.

[Purple Haize]

I remember when Republicans actually managed to get the budget balanced, and I was whole heartedly behind George W. Bush in 2000. I firmly believe he was the right man in charge on 9/11. However, they also abandoned fiscal responsibility under Bush 43, and the Tea Party seemed to bring some of that back, but then they became intractable nut cases who wanted everything or nothing. Now, the Republican Party is led by the self-proclaimed King of Debt, they'll hem and haw about anti-LGBTQ legislation while putting up headless torso profiles on Grindr at CPAC, get their knickers in a bunch over abortion without truly even understanding biology and fetal/infant development, used to be against dictators but are quite happy to let Putin romp around Ukraine, etc...

Even worse than that, our political parties today are really just cults. We claim we don't want a Trump/Biden rematch, or at least that's what the polls say, but we can't get off our collective gluteus maximuses to do whats necessary to stop it. Our country deserves what is likely coming to it, no matter who wins in November.

[/rant]

It depends on which Republicans you ask about Ukraine. And what questions you ask.

[ATrain]

I remember when Republicans actually managed to get the budget balanced, and I was whole heartedly behind George W. Bush in 2000. I firmly believe he was the right man in charge on 9/11. However, they also abandoned fiscal responsibility under Bush 43, and the Tea Party seemed to bring some of that back, but then they became intractable nut cases who wanted everything or nothing. Now, the Republican Party is led by the self-proclaimed King of Debt, they'll hem and haw about anti-LGBTQ legislation while putting up headless torso profiles on Grindr at CPAC, get their knickers in a bunch over abortion without truly even understanding biology and fetal/infant development, used to be against dictators but are quite happy to let Putin romp around Ukraine, etc...

Even worse than that, our political parties today are really just cults. We claim we don't want a Trump/Biden rematch, or at least that's what the polls say, but we can't get off our collective gluteus maximuses to do whats necessary to stop it. Our country deserves what is likely coming to it, no matter who wins in November.

[/rant]

It depends on which Republicans you ask about Ukraine. And what questions you ask.

Good point