Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke
thepostman wrote:is it me or is this presidential election talk come MUCH, MUCH earlier then normal....I guess when we have so many 24 hour new stations they run out of things to talk about and it happens...but who is to say the people saying they are running are going to even still be around a year from now...Part of the increased intrest is due to the fact that this is the first time in over 50 years that neither the president or vice-president is running. That means that both parties nominations are wide open.
adam42381 wrote:Maybe it didn't hurt his chances, but it certainly hurt his Presidency.Ed Dantes wrote:If you're talking about personal lives, so what? Barack did coke and Hillary is a walking freak-show.You do realize that Dubya did coke and had a serious drinking problem. That didn't seem to hurt his chances.
And I only put McCain as veep because there is absolutely NO ONE in the wings for 2012 or 2016, barring the unlikely resurgence of Rick Santorum or George Allen.
LUconn wrote:He instilled a sense of calm during a time that was otherwise chaotic. Guiliani gave not just New York, but America, the "we're down, but we're not out, far from it. And when we get back, we're gonna be better than ever" attitude.Ed Dantes wrote:
And then there was 9-11, which shouldn't be dismissed by saying "so what". To see how great of a leader he was during that period, contrast him with New Orleans mayor Ray Nagin -- who KNEW that a catastrophic storm was coming and still played his fiddle. At a time when we all thought that the world was literally about to end, Rudy couldn't have handled the situation any better.
But this is exactly what I'm talking about. He did such a greath job because he didn't Nagin the situation? You probably couldn't have made the situation any worse than our chocolate city friend did. And because Rudy didn't foul it up like that, he did a great job? I'm not talking about the rest of his mayorship really becuase I know he did some good things but I'm not too familiar with the overall body of work. I just don't like to hear that he was so great in the face of crisis because he didn't screw it up.
Ed Dantes wrote: And I only put McCain as veep because there is absolutely NO ONE in the wings for 2012 or 2016, barring the unlikely resurgence of Rick Santorum or George Allen.If you are talking about McCain running in 2012 or 2016, he will probably have to run from his nursing home. I believe he just turned 70. There is no way he will get elected at the age of 76 or older IMO.
TallyW wrote: As for Obabma's name... that won't be an issue. That's pretty stupid and frankly people who would care about his name aren't the people who actually get out of bed and take the 5 minutes it takes to vote. Although I am skeptical of the average voter... a name problem won't be enough to turn him off... especially as long as he holds onto this Joel Osteen vibe he's got going.I just disagree. If he does go head to head with Hillary, his name and background is going to be shouted. His background is so guarded that people will want to know about it. If he indeed has attended several Muslim schools and does have a traditionally Muslim type name, it will hurt him. At this time in our history, people will vote against someone they feel has a Muslim background IMO. To be honest, I would probably vote against a conservative that has a Muslim background. I think many would agree on both sides of the fence. There is A LOT of fear about Muslims and those who may have Muslim roots.
) Rudy's family life can be spun as aposititve. He stayed with his wife and slept on the sofa even after her "alternative lifestyle" affair was public to him and others. Sure he is dating a younger woman, but we aren't talking about someone in their teens. People will give him a pass on that simply b/c it is SOOO messed up and doesn't appear to affect his ability to govern. Agian, I dont think you can underestimate his impact on one of the major cities of the world and in history after 9/11. He led, people followed, good things happened. THAT is a powerful image to overcome. This also, is where I think Clinton's "fun" will come in handy for him. People are "used" to this type of thing.belcherboy wrote:Except that Muslim-madrassa story has already been debunked. Pick up a newspaper, buddy.TallyW wrote: As for Obabma's name... that won't be an issue. That's pretty stupid and frankly people who would care about his name aren't the people who actually get out of bed and take the 5 minutes it takes to vote. Although I am skeptical of the average voter... a name problem won't be enough to turn him off... especially as long as he holds onto this Joel Osteen vibe he's got going.I just disagree. If he does go head to head with Hillary, his name and background is going to be shouted. His background is so guarded that people will want to know about it. If he indeed has attended several Muslim schools and does have a traditionally Muslim type name, it will hurt him. At this time in our history, people will vote against someone they feel has a Muslim background IMO. To be honest, I would probably vote against a conservative that has a Muslim background. I think many would agree on both sides of the fence. There is A LOT of fear about Muslims and those who may have Muslim roots.
TallyW wrote:I don't believe we've even ever elected a President who was dating... I think they've all been married.James Buchanan was a bachelor (and some say gay).
LUconn wrote:That's like saying "Why was George Washington so great? Because his military acumen helped grant victory over the British? Because he was a strong leader during the trying times of our nation's birth? Just because Ray Nagin is crappy?"Ed Dantes wrote:
And then there was 9-11, which shouldn't be dismissed by saying "so what". To see how great of a leader he was during that period, contrast him with New Orleans mayor Ray Nagin -- who KNEW that a catastrophic storm was coming and still played his fiddle. At a time when we all thought that the world was literally about to end, Rudy couldn't have handled the situation any better.
But this is exactly what I'm talking about. He did such a greath job because he didn't Nagin the situation? You probably couldn't have made the situation any worse than our chocolate city friend did. And because Rudy didn't foul it up like that, he did a great job? I'm not talking about the rest of his mayorship really becuase I know he did some good things but I'm not too familiar with the overall body of work. I just don't like to hear that he was so great in the face of crisis because he didn't screw it up.
Ed Dantes wrote: Except that Muslim-madrassa story has already been debunked. Pick up a newspaper, buddy.A newspaper? Hold old are you? Who reads a newspaper for news anymore?:D
"I feel sad having to expose Barack Obama," says Martin, "but the man is a complete fraud. The truth is going to surprise, and disappoint, and outrage many people who were drawn to him. He has lied to the American people, and he has sought to misrepresent his own heritage.
"Obama's life story is vastly different from the one he portrays. My point: if he will lie about his mother and father, what else is he lying about? Can we expect 'bimbo eruptions?'
"Fiction: Obama stated in his Convention speech: 'My father ... grew up herding goats.' The 'goat herder' claim has been repeated endlessly. It is a lie. Fact: Obama's grandfather, Hussein Onyango Obama was a prominent and wealthy farmer. His son, Obama's father, was a child of privilege, not privation. He was an outstanding student, not a herdsman.
"Fiction: Obama was given an 'African' name. Fact: Obama is a Muslim who has concealed his religion. I am a strong supporter of the Muslim community, and I believe Muslims have been scapegoated. Obama has a great opportunity to be forthright. Instead, he has treated his Muslim heritage as a dark secret. His grandfather was named 'Hussein.' That is an Arabic-Muslim, not African, name. Hussein was a devout Muslim and named his son, Barack Senior, 'Baraka.' Baraka is an Arabic word meaning 'blessed.' Baraka comes out of the Koran and Arabic, not Africa.
"Barack Senior was also a devoted Muslim, and also chose a Muslim name for his son, our own Barack Obama, Junior. Again, his name was an Arabic and Koranic.
Obama has spent a lifetime running from his family heritage and religious heritage. Would his father have given his son a Koranic name if the father was not a devout Muslim? Obama's stepfather was also a Muslim. Obama will be the first Muslim-heritage senator; he should be proud of that fact. There is nothing to be ashamed of in any of the three great Abrahamic religions.
"Fiction: Obama Senior was a harmless student 'immigrant' who came to the United States only to study. Fact: Obama was part of one of the most corrupt and violent organizations in Africa: the Kenyatta regime. Obama's father ran back to Kenya soon after the British left. It is likely Obama's father had Mau Mau sympathies or connections, or he would not have been welcomed into the murderous inner circle of rapists, murderers, and arsonists. I believe Obama's secret shame at his family history of rape, murder and arson is what actualizes him. Our research is not yet complete. We are seeking to examine British colonial records. Our investigation to date has drawn on information on three continents.
"And what about Obama's beloved Kenyan brothers and sisters? None of his family was invited to Boston to share his prominence. Are his relatives being kept in the closet? Where are they? More secrecy, more prevarication.
"It is time for Barack Obama to stop presenting a fantasy to the American people. We are forgiving and many would still support him. It may well be that his concealment is meant to endanger Israel. His Muslim religion would obviously raise serious questions in many Jewish circles where Obama now enjoys support," Martin states.
"Our investigation is continuing. In he meantime, Crown Books should stop selling Obama's novelization of his life. We have asked Crown to do that. Obama is living a lie."
belcherboy wrote:Here is another article picture that caught my attention about Hillary and Obama. It could very well be untrue, but even if it were, it will never be proven. I got a feeling that Hillary and her gang are looking EVERYWHERE for things on Obama. This could get really ugly if he isn't a Presidential shadow by this time next year.http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2819634&page=1
Ed Dantes wrote:I think you are missing my point. Do you honestly believe that Hillary would not use his name and Muslim heritage (whether deep rooted or not) against him if it could move her closer to the Democratic nomination? Do you think that a Muslim heritage (whether perceived or real) would do anything to help a candidate? That is my point. If you think that Hillary did not already have plans to use this against him, than I think you are giving Hillary too much integrity.belcherboy wrote:Here is another article picture that caught my attention about Hillary and Obama. It could very well be untrue, but even if it were, it will never be proven. I got a feeling that Hillary and her gang are looking EVERYWHERE for things on Obama. This could get really ugly if he isn't a Presidential shadow by this time next year.http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2819634&page=1
Note this quote:
"When I was six, I attended an Indonesian public school where a bunch of the kids were Muslim, because the country is 90 percent Muslim," the Democratic presidential hopeful told ABC's Chicago affiliate WLS-TV. "The notion that somehow, at the age of 6 or 7, I was being trained for something other than math, science and reading, is ludicrous."
And it was the Fox News crowd, not Hillary, who brought the revelation to light.
And while his father may have been Muslim, he divorced Obama's mama (couldn't resist the pun) and moved to Kenya. Barack and his mama (a white woman, by the way) moved to Indonesia.
Obama Excites Entertainment Community
By JOCELYN NOVECK
Star quality: It's what Hollywood was built on. And there's no question that to the many powerful Democrats in the entertainment community, Sen. Barack Obama has loads of it.
George Clooney calls him a friend. Halle Berry has said she'd "collect paper cups off the ground to make his pathway clear." Oprah Winfrey says he's her man.
And three of the most powerful men in Hollywood - Steven Spielberg, Jefrey Katzenberg and David Geffen - have just invited Democrats to a truly high-profile fundraiser: a Feb. 20 reception for Obama at the Beverly Hilton Hotel, with a dinner later at Geffen's home for top donors.
But despite all that, political analysts note that being the "next big thing" can be fleeting. And a number of traditional donors and activists in Hollywood and the music industry are a long way from choosing, at this early stage, whom to endorse among the three seen as top-tier Democratic candidates: Obama, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and John Edwards.
"People are very excited that this is a fine Democratic field," says Marge Tabankin, a longtime political activist in Hollywood. "Many people will support several candidates, to keep a healthy debate going. The top candidates are all coming out in the next month, and people will be carefully checking them out, listening to what they have to say."
She and other analysts point out that it's Clinton who's the clear front-runner at this point, with the long-term relationships, the financing, the network of support dating to the early '90s, when her husband began his first term as president.
Others note the admiration for Edwards, and the sense that the former North Carolina senator and the 2004 vice presidential nominee has a strong and clear message this time around.
"People feel he's very well-positioned," Tabankin says. "He's got support for his commitment to fighting poverty, for his energy and his intelligence." And in liberal Hollywood, many like his position on Iraq - he's recanted his 2002 vote authorizing force there and demanded that Senate rivals block funds for President Bush's troop increase.
Even the Obama fundraiser hosted by the three founders of the DreamWorks movie studio doesn't mean all three have decided to endorse Obama. Only Katzenberg is backing the Illinois senator, says Katzenberg's political adviser, Andy Spahn.
Spielberg isn't picking favorites yet. He and other major Los Angeles donors, including producer Steve Bing, media mogul Haim Saban, supermarket magnate Ron Burkle and investment banker Sim Farar, will be co-hosting a fundraiser for Clinton in the spring, said her spokesman, Phil Singer.
Clooney, one of the world's hottest movie stars, has made no secret of his enthusiasm for Obama's candidacy, even if he's made no public endorsement.
"George is a huge supporter and fan of Barack, as well as a friend," said Clooney's publicist, Stan Rosenfield. He stressed that Clooney is unlikely to campaign for Obama, though, because the actor feels support from liberal Hollywood can be a detriment to the candidate. "You lose the heartland."
Barbra Streisand and Norman Lear, major Democratic players in Hollywood, have not taken a position, and they traditionally give to multiple candidates "in order to keep debate alive," says Tabankin, who is affiliated with the Barbra Streisand Foundation.
Hip-hop mogul Russell Simmons says he has yet to make a choice. But he has an idea for the perfect Democratic candidate.
"If you could take Barack Obama's image, add Hillary Clinton's money and John Edwards' voice, that would be my candidate," says Simmons, an independent who has supported both Democrats and Republicans.
Simmons says Obama has yet to present a clear picture of where he stands.
"He's a rock star," Simmons said in a telephone interview. But he added, "I don't know what his opinions are." Simmons says that so far, the message he prefers is Edwards' - but he's also fond of Dennis Kucinich, the liberal Ohio congressman launching his second long-shot candidacy.
Others, Tabankin says, have similar reservations. "Obama has tremendous potential - he cuts across race and class lines. But people don't know him yet," she says.
There's also a current of nervousness: Is the country ready to elect a black president? The same current of nervousness exists about Clinton, of course: Is the country ready to elect a female?
A key mistake, says analyst Todd Boyd, would be to reduce everything to the gender and race factor.
"We're simplifying things if we do that," says Boyd, a professor at the University of Southern California's School of Cinematic Arts. "What I'm finding interesting is that Obama is not the immediate favorite of a lot of African-Americans - he came up through the system, not the grass roots like Jesse Jackson. At the end of the day, race and gender are a major factor but not the only factor. Hollywood will line up and see how these things play out."
Yet Boyd and others cannot deny that Obama has one thing the others don't.
"Obama has the potential to be a star like nobody else does," he said. "He has that 'It' factor, that star appeal. And it's Hollywood that created that system."
New York Conservative
Looking at Rudy Giuliani.
By Mona Charen
Last week C-SPAN featured a discussion about Rudolph Giuliani that left me shaking my head. The gist of the guest’s message was that Giuliani was a “Rockefeller Republican” who was suddenly transformed into a darling of conservatives after 9/11. Today, Fox News echoed the same theme.
New York Conservative 02/09
A Farce and an Outrage 02/02
Demoralized 01/26
Welcome Back to Democrat Land 01/19
Are We Doing Everything to Win? 01/12
Campus Is a Killer 01/05
McCarthy: Intelligence Games
Krauthammer: Words and War
Editors: Rudy's Run
Nordlinger: Growing up, &c.
McCarthy: In the Border Patrol Case, the Best Defense Is a Good Offense
Derbyshire: Fly Me to the Moon
Goldberg: Global Cooling Costs Too Much
Wittig: Back in the Old GDR
Harris: Free Up Your Sunday Night
Pakaluk: Unbearable “Tolerance”
Kudlow: When You Tax Profits, You Tax People
Blyth: There’s a Crazy Astronaut in All of Us
Lowry: The Church of Climate Panic
Charen: New York Conservative
That’s quite wrong. Social conservatives have trouble with Giuliani, but by no stretch of the imagination is he a Rockefeller (i.e., liberal) Republican. In fact, in many ways Giuliani is the most conservative of the top-three candidates for the Republican nomination. He came by that conservatism in the toughest crucible.
City Journal’s Steven Malanga reminds us of the details. When Giuliani was elected mayor, New York City was Exhibit A in failed liberal governance. Crime was out of control. Public spaces were marred by a combination of omnipresent graffiti; so-called “squeegee men” who preyed on motorists; and raving homeless people who took up residence on sidewalks and in building entrances. Public employee unions had shaken down the city government for years. The tax base was eroding. The city government was deeply in debt, and fully one in eight New Yorkers was on welfare.
As Malanga reports, Giuliani transformed a city whose budget and workforce were larger than all but five or six states. He and police chief William Bratton famously cracked down first on quality-of-life crimes like panhandling and public urination. Teenagers who leaped over the turnstiles at subway entrances were arrested — a departure from the practice under Mayor David Dinkins. Giuliani later quipped that the police under his predecessor had become “highly skilled observers of crime.” Those turnstile jumpers turned out to possess a huge number of illegal guns, which were confiscated, and criminals throughout the city discovered that the New York police were breathing down their necks. The number of murders dropped from 1,960 in Dinkins’s final year in office to 640 in Giuliani’s last year. The overall crime rate dropped 64 percent, to levels not seen since the 1960s.
Giuliani accomplished this in the teeth of a genuinely ferocious assault from liberals, so-called “civil rights” figures like Al Sharpton (with whom Giuliani declined to meet), the New York Civil Liberties Union, and the New York Times. Actors and artists protested in the streets, and leading chin pullers in national magazines pronounced themselves troubled by Giuliani’s “tactics.” He was steadfast — and the greatest beneficiaries were poor New Yorkers who lived in formerly dangerous neighborhoods.
Though he inherited a budget deficit, Giuliani declined to raise taxes on New Yorkers nearly bled white. He closed the budget gap with a combination of spending reductions (what a concept!) and modest tax cuts. Business boomed.
Giuliani attacked another sacred cow when he ended “open admissions” and remedial courses at the City University of New York. He was called lots of names by the usual suspects for this principled move. The result was to revive the university — SAT scores of incoming students rose 168 points.
New York’s welfare system was among the most bloated in the nation. Giuliani first culled the ranks for cheats and frauds — eliminating 20 percent of the caseload. The mayor then introduced a workfare requirement — able-bodied adults would be expected to do 20 hours of work in municipal offices in exchange for a welfare check. There were howls from the New York Times. The mayor was undeterred. Giuliani transformed welfare offices from check distribution centers into employment offices, where welfare workers coached clients on how to read the classifieds, how to dress for interviews, and how to prepare a resume.
His approach toward the homeless was similar. Those who were able to work were encouraged to do so. Those who rejected an offer of shelter and insisted upon blocking public spaces and harassing passersby were issued summonses. For this Hillary Clinton lectured the mayor that Jesus was a homeless person.
There is no question that Giuliani’s position on abortion and gun control will offend many Republicans. But let’s be clear, he is no liberal. His conservatism has been tempered in New York City — so it is steely indeed.
COPYRIGHT 2007 CREATORS SYNDICATE, INC.
- By LUOrange
- By olldflame