[bluejacket]

I realize there is evil in the world, I'm just not nearly arrogant enough to believe we can fix it with laser guided bombs. I'm also smart enough to know that we are a part of that evil.

Pure libertarianism did not build the West and it will not save the West from radical jihadists.

[bballfan84]

isis killed two americans what bigger picture do you need

with that logic there are a lot of countries killing American missionaries, should we go and bomb those groups too? I think it is absolutely terrible and incredibly sad but this logic is awful.

these people have declared war on America..what else do you need...do you need another 9/11 to realize the threat and danger that these people are to our nation...get your head out of the clouds

[thepostman]

isis killed two americans what bigger picture do you need

with that logic there are a lot of countries killing American missionaries, should we go and bomb those groups too? I think it is absolutely terrible and incredibly sad but this logic is awful.

these people have declared war on America..what else do you need...do you need another 9/11 to realize the threat and danger that these people are to our nation...get your head out of the clouds

I like how you determined my opinion by me simply saying the logic of this particular argument was flawed. Good job.

It is very dangerous to approach this issue as if it isn't a complex one and one that needs much intelligent discussion among leaders both militarily speaking and within our federal government.

To say, "they killed Americans" and use that as your only argument is extremely short sited and a bit ignorant.

[bluejacket]

I like how you determined my opinion by me simply saying the logic of this particular argument was flawed. Good job.

It is very dangerous to approach this issue as if it isn't a complex one and one that needs much intelligent discussion among leaders both militarily speaking and within our federal government.

To say, "they killed Americans" and use that as your only argument is extremely short sited and a bit ignorant.

Amen.

[ATrain]

Just carpet bomb ISIS territory, make an alliance with the Kurds for them to have an independent state after its over, and install a secular dictator in Iraq.

As for the Ukraine, are we sworn to defend them? Are they a part of NATO? I'm not completely sure of the answer to the first question, but the answer to the second question is NO. Rather than worrying about Russia, we should be focused on China and beefing up our military (read: strengthening their militaries as well) alliances with Japan, South Korea, the Phillipines and covertly with Taiwan.

[jbock13]

Did anybody notice I've yet to even comment on this subject?

[bballfan84]

I like how you determined my opinion by me simply saying the logic of this particular argument was flawed. Good job.

It is very dangerous to approach this issue as if it isn't a complex one and one that needs much intelligent discussion among leaders both militarily speaking and within our federal government.

To say, "they killed Americans" and use that as your only argument is extremely short sited and a bit ignorant.

Amen.

nice condescending statement..normally calling someone ignorant is a more gentle way of saying that person is stupid or an idiot...maybe this is better stated..a group we are at war with has chopped off the heads of two Americans to essentially taunt us...sorry for my ignorance but yes I think they should pay the piper..our lack of action over the past 3 or 4 years has made us look very weak and scared...

[Humble_Opinion]

As for the Ukraine, are we sworn to defend them? Are they a part of NATO? I'm not completely sure of the answer to the first question, but the answer to the second question is NO. Rather than worrying about Russia, we should be focused on China and beefing up our military (read: strengthening their militaries as well) alliances with Japan, South Korea, the Phillipines and covertly with Taiwan.

We did sign an accord with the Ukraine back when Clinton was in office where we (along with a few other signers) promised to guarantee their territorial integrity if they would give up the nuclear weapons they obtained from the collapse of the Soviet Union. One has to wonder if Putin would be doing what he's doing if he knew that the Ukraine had nuclear weapons?

I agree on China... but I think you're short-sited on Russia. Considering the recent collaboration between their two respective countries, it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that they are also collaborating on a much larger scale regarding their long-term intentions and goals. A weakened and militarily stretched U.S. is in both of their interests for dominating their regions. Russia is essentially employing the strategy that we used in Afghanistan against them on a much larger scale. Every time a vote goes before the UN Security Council regarding sanctions against any state sponsor of terror or aggressor nation, Russia/China are always there to block it. These same terrorist organizations and aggressor nations (aka the "Axis of Evil") often end up with the weapons manufactured by companies in Russia and China. This is perhaps the main reason I was willing to support Romney, as he understood this and properly labeled Russia as our greatest geopolitical foe. A point Obama didn't even comprehend because he's such a novice... even after being in office for four years.

Also - to those talking about not combating ISIS... I take it you haven't seen the videos these people recorded and produced to some sort of background muslim worship music. The ones where they are herding Christians together like cattle and shooting them in the head one by one and throwing them into a lake. Or the ones where they are pulling up next to people driving on the highway and spraying down their cars with AK47's... Since they have already threatened us, I'd personally rather have our military apparatus deal with them on their turf than our own. Though with our open and porous borders it's likely not long until we have to deal with them here...

My main problem with Libertarians is that their logic assumes that these people (ISIS) can be understood. You can't negotiate or understand people who place the same value on death as we do on life. That is too big of a bridge to build. These are people who would gladly give their life just for the chance to take yours, or those of your family. We can ignore the problem all we want and live in our own world, but eventually they will spread to the point where they become our problem, and it will be a much larger problem to deal with at that point.

[bluejacket]

You said this earlier in the thread......

I have a solution for Iraq and Syria...we take it over completely..it becomes apart of America..we then make it a requirement for all people seeking citizenship to live in Iraq and Syria for a full two years as US Citizens. Once that 2 years is over they are free to live wherever they want within the states. Additionally all males between the ages of 18-40 seeking citizenship will have to serve in the military unit that is protecting Iraq and Syrai..once your two years are up WELCOME TO THE US!!! problems solved. We no longer have issues in Iraq, Syria and the border..and to top it off we have even more oil!!

[Humble_Opinion]

nice condescending statement..normally calling someone ignorant is a more gentle way of saying that person is stupid or an idiot...maybe this is better stated..a group we are at war with has chopped off the heads of two Americans to essentially taunt us...sorry for my ignorance but yes I think they should pay the piper..our lack of action over the past 3 or 4 years has made us look very weak and scared...

isis killed two americans what bigger picture do you need

with that logic there are a lot of countries killing American missionaries, should we go and bomb those groups too? I think it is absolutely terrible and incredibly sad but this logic is awful.

these people have declared war on America..what else do you need...do you need another 9/11 to realize the threat and danger that these people are to our nation...get your head out of the clouds

I think you might have started the personal war bballfan... Just my opinion.

[bluejacket]

Did anybody notice I've yet to even comment on this subject?

Bring it on, political pundit!

[thepostman]

I like how you determined my opinion by me simply saying the logic of this particular argument was flawed. Good job.

It is very dangerous to approach this issue as if it isn't a complex one and one that needs much intelligent discussion among leaders both militarily speaking and within our federal government.

To say, "they killed Americans" and use that as your only argument is extremely short sited and a bit ignorant.

Amen.

nice condescending statement..normally calling someone ignorant is a more gentle way of saying that person is stupid or an idiot...maybe this is better stated..a group we are at war with has chopped off the heads of two Americans to essentially taunt us...sorry for my ignorance but yes I think they should pay the piper..our lack of action over the past 3 or 4 years has made us look very weak and scared...

No it means ignorant. Your interpretation is your own. As is the tone you read into written word. There is much more than just getting revenge. It is the chain reaction going into these kind of countries create and have created for us for a long time. If we spent the time, energy and money focusing on protecting this country from people coming INTO our country than we wouldn't need to worry about another 9/11 as you put it. I am as angry as anybody but simply getting overly emotional and yelling "BOMB 'EM" because they killed one of our own without considering the chain reaction it would cause to return to the middle east in full force is nothing short of ignorant.

[bluejacket]

We did sign an accord with the Ukraine back when Clinton was in office where we (along with a few other signers) promised to guarantee their territorial integrity if they would give up the nuclear weapons they obtained from the collapse of the Soviet Union. One has to wonder if Putin would be doing what he's doing if he knew that the Ukraine had nuclear weapons?

Yes, but the Budapest Memorandum does not force signatories to hold Ukrainians together during a secession crisis.

[Humble_Opinion]

In return for relinquishing physical control of its stockpile the Ukraine received assurances from Russia that they would respect its territorial borders. They were also supposed to be free from the use or threat of force from Russia. Additionally, Russia was prohibited from meddling in their affairs through the use of economic pressure.

Is it your opinion that Russia has not broken these commitments up to this point?

[ATrain]

Russia has broken those commitments.

If the vote in Crimea were a true vote and the people wanted secession and to join Russia, that's one thing. However, Russia's military intervention in Eastern Ukraine is most assuredly uncalled for. Furthermore, the downing of MH 17 by the Russian-backed separatists is justification for arming and supporting Ukrainian government forces.

[Purple Haize]

Just because we leave someone alone doesn't mean they will leave us, or others alone. I am not arrogant enough to think that everyone has the same mindset as the Me.

[bluejacket]

In return for relinquishing physical control of its stockpile the Ukraine received assurances from Russia that they would respect its territorial borders. They were also supposed to be free from the use or threat of force from Russia. Additionally, Russia was prohibited from meddling in their affairs through the use of economic pressure.

The US and UK agreed to the same series of points in the Budapest Memorandum that the Russians did in 1994. The Russians were not the only ones to agree to the Memorandum's points. The Budapest Memorandum is simply the diplomatic weapon that each side uses to support and advance their own interests. (http://www.france24.com/en/20140303-ukr ... emorandum/ (http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201 ... raine.html see the exerpt from the Financial Times) (http://rt.com/op-edge/162232-ukraine-bu ... m-nuclear/)

Make no mistake, the US, UK, and other Western powers have used economic and political pressure inside Ukraine to bolster pro-Western and pro-EU groups dating to the end of the Cold War. Covert (and sometimes overt) Western actions have been committed in Ukraine, most blatantly during the Orange Revolution. These actions have been applied to a far less extent and in a less consistent method than the Russians, but they have happened nevertheless and directly contributed to the chaos that is happening right now. The pre-existing faultlines inside Ukraine have been amplified by cycles of Russian and Western interventions which has torn the country apart.

Is it your opinion that Russia has not broken these commitments up to this point?

Russia has undoubtedly broken these commitments and currently has military "advisors," equipment, and weaponry inside eastern Ukraine and Crimea. However, the US and West are not blameless.

[bballfan84]

You said this earlier in the thread......

I have a solution for Iraq and Syria...we take it over completely..it becomes apart of America..we then make it a requirement for all people seeking citizenship to live in Iraq and Syria for a full two years as US Citizens. Once that 2 years is over they are free to live wherever they want within the states. Additionally all males between the ages of 18-40 seeking citizenship will have to serve in the military unit that is protecting Iraq and Syrai..once your two years are up WELCOME TO THE US!!! problems solved. We no longer have issues in Iraq, Syria and the border..and to top it off we have even more oil!!

whats wrong with this??? lol

[bballfan84]

yea I think the get your heads out of the clouds started it for sure...my apologies..I do think we need to deal with ISIS swiftly...troops never should have been pulled out of Iraq..we need a heavy constant presence in the middle east

[ATrain]

And in other news, China is violating the terms of the handover of Hong Kong from Britain.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/ ... TP20140902

Clearly, the stage IS being set for WWIII. This will be a multifaceted war between Britain, France, Japan, South Korea, the US and smaller allies (the Ukraine, Estonia, etc...) on one side and Russia, China and North Korea on the other. It will be interesting to see how the Middle East plays into this. The US and Iran have icy relations, but both hate ISIS. Syria's dictator Assad is backed by Russia but threatened by ISIS.

I just hope that once our Neville Chamberlin (aka Barak Obama) is gone, we'll have someone with the leadership and fortitude of say, an FDR or Winston Churchill, to lead us and that the American people will once again be willing make the same sacrifices that had to be made during WWII. I also hope nuclear weapons are not used in this one.

[bluejacket]

Clearly, the stage IS being set for WWIII. This will be a multifaceted war between Britain, France, Japan, South Korea, the US and smaller allies (the Ukraine, Estonia, etc...) on one side and Russia, China and North Korea on the other. It will be interesting to see how the Middle East plays into this. The US and Iran have icy relations, but both hate ISIS. Syria's dictator Assad is backed by Russia but threatened by ISIS.

I just hope that once our Neville Chamberlin (aka Barak Obama) is gone, we'll have someone with the leadership and fortitude of say, an FDR or Winston Churchill, to lead us and that the American people will once again be willing make the same sacrifices that had to be made during WWII. I also hope nuclear weapons are not used in this one.

If your scenario happens, nuclear weapons will definitely be used in the conflict. That said, nuclear deterrence will keep WWIII from happening.

Instead, international tensions between nuclear powers will continue to be fought through proxy wars, as they have been since 1949.

[bballfan84]

unfortunately since the country is getting more and more lost a person like Winston Churchill will never be elected..

[ATrain]

Putin has been hinting he's not afraid of pre-emptive nuclear strikes, including on the US.

[From the class of 09]

unfortunately since the country is getting more and more lost a person like Winston Churchill will never be elected..

Even during Winston's time he wasn't voted in as PM until Germany controlled a good chunk of Europe. He was previously run out of political office for being a warmonger saying England needed to take a hard stand against Germany/Nazi's. But when all your neighbors are being invaded it's amazing how people begin to take an interest in you.

Churchhill was promptly run out of office after WWII for being all negative on the evils of communism/USSR.

He was a great leader but when it comes to popularity/voting current events play a BIG role. If we experience another 9/11 type event things can change quickly.

[jbock13]

RON PAUL 2016