[Yacht Rock]

I wish stories like that in public schools were more the norm rather than the exception. In California that definitely. I agree with how important it is to "be Jesus." With our kids we hope to train them up so that as adults they can go into the world among the unsaved and feel comfortable sharing the gospel. As children, they are vulnerable and there is too much of a lack of consistency in public schools for our taste.

[Purple Haize]

... but what ive found is a large percentage simply dont have the critical thinking or basic comprehension skills to make significant contributions to the world at large...

wait, what?

no way I read that right

HA. I saw that.

Many public schools PH not all. im glad there are people like 01 working with young people in the public schools but what ive found is a large percentage simply dont have the critical thinking or basic comprehension skills to make significant contributions to the world at large. For those Christian families who have young people in those schools, that is their prerogative...just the choice that my wife and I will be making is to not send our children to one.

Your original post didn't have any qualifiers. You make the main point though about what is wrong with the schools today. You portray the mindset that it's up to the school to teach your kid all they need to know in regards to critical thinking etc. but take no responsibility yourself. You have, at this point, 1 child to work with. Any teacher will have over 60 a semester to work with at minimum (6 periods at 10 students per. And that is a way low number). You will spend more time with your kid than any of their teachers, yet you feel any habits learned are solely the result of someone else.

[BCXtreme]

I wish stories like that in public schools were more the norm rather than the exception. In California that definitely. I agree with how important it is to "be Jesus." With our kids we hope to train them up so that as adults they can go into the world among the unsaved and feel comfortable sharing the gospel. As children, they are vulnerable and there is too much of a lack of consistency in public schools for our taste.

This, exactly. The "salt and light" argument doesn't hold up against the facts: studies suggest that at least 75% of public-schooled Christian kids will walk away from Christianity. That's why Paul warns us to "not be misled: bad company corrupts good character" (1 Cor. 15:33). To the parents of the 25% or less who stay with the faith: consider yourselves and your kids blessed, but please don't delude yourself into thinking that outcome is normal.

Your original post didn't have any qualifiers. You make the main point though about what is wrong with the schools today. You portray the mindset that it's up to the school to teach your kid all they need to know in regards to critical thinking etc. but take no responsibility yourself. You have, at this point, 1 child to work with. Any teacher will have over 60 a semester to work with at minimum (6 periods at 10 students per. And that is a way low number). You will spend more time with your kid than any of their teachers, yet you feel any habits learned are solely the result of someone else.

Sorry, but two parents can only do so much against twelve years of an entire school system. Public schools don't teach critical thinking, encourage critical thinking, or accept critical thinking. Thanks to Common Core, standardized testing, and a decidedly liberal social agenda, today's public schools teach students to memorize and accept what they're told, period. Yes, there are exceptions, and many adults will attest that the schools weren't like that when they went, but things have changed. We're not blaming the individual teachers here, we're blaming the education system that controls them. If you buy a product that doesn't function as advertised, you don't blame the assembly line workers; you blame the manufacturing company. If the schools have no responsibility for teaching or at the very least encouraging/rewarding critical thinking, then why send kids there? So "Tommy" can learn who all the kings of England were, and solve for the cosine? He's not likely to use either in real life on his own, which makes memorizing them pointless, and he knows it. There needs to be a critical thinking emphasis, otherwise kids are just memorizing meaningless words and numbers to pass a test.

And for the record, BJ did qualify his original post. Emphasis added, but otherwise unedited by me:

my son (and any future children God sees fit to entrust to us) is not going anywhere near a public school for that very reason. He will learn to think critically and be a productive member of society but he is not going to be part of the brainwashed masses that come out of many public schools

And one final thought to any Christian adult who ministers to public school kids: you are involved in a very valuable ministry, comparable to being a missionary. But remember, there would be no need for focused ministry in the public schools if they were not, by default, a spiritually deficient place.

[adam42381]

Sorry, but two parents can only do so much against twelve years of an entire school system. Public schools don't teach critical thinking, encourage critical thinking, or accept critical thinking. Thanks to Common Core, standardized testing, and a decidedly liberal social agenda, today's public schools teach students to memorize and accept what they're told, period. Yes, there are exceptions, and many adults will attest that the schools weren't like that when they went, but things have changed. We're not blaming the individual teachers here, we're blaming the education system that controls them. If you buy a product that doesn't function as advertised, you don't blame the assembly line workers; you blame the manufacturing company. If the schools have no responsibility for teaching or at the very least encouraging/rewarding critical thinking, then why send kids there? So "Tommy" can learn who all the kings of England were, and solve for the cosine? He's not likely to use either in real life on his own, which makes memorizing them pointless, and he knows it. There needs to be a critical thinking emphasis, otherwise kids are just memorizing meaningless words and numbers to pass a test.

Funny. That's exactly how I was taught while growing up in church and attending a Christian school K-12.

[SuperJon]

Some of you people hold up Christian education to a level that just isn't true. I see just as many Christian school kids leave the church as I do public school kids.

[adam42381]

Some of you people hold up Christian education to a level that just isn't true. I see just as many Christian school kids leave the church as I do public school kids.

Agreed.

*Disclaimer* I'm a high school teacher at a public school.

[PAmedic]

Some of you people hold up Christian education to a level that just isn't true. I see just as many Christian school kids leave the church as I do public school kids.

Agreed.

I was one of them.

(everyone may now pick their jaws up off the floor)

[Yacht Rock]

I do want to echo the above sentiment that I think any Christian that goes into the public school ministry is doing a very important thing and has an important job. When I think back to the teachers that helped guide me in public school, the ones I learned the most from were Christians (I didn't know at the time). I wish they had been allowed to share their faith with me though because I was lost for years afterwards. It wasn't until later I realized that their faith in Jesus was what guided them to be men of integrity.

A lot of times I look at the experience kids have in school to mold how they will end up behaving in the workforce eventually and whether they will feel comfortable speaking openly about their faith, etc. There are a lot of schools where speaking about your faith or expressing an opinion that is contrary to a secular humanist agenda is frowned upon. Now, in a Christian private school. It's sort of the opposite. You are just get the other side of the coin. I don't mind that because that is just inline with what my family values. As for critical thinking, etc, I teach that to my kids all the time. I have a lot of discussions with my daughter on how to discern the truth and be able to understand how she came to the conclusions she has.

[Yacht Rock]

Some of you people hold up Christian education to a level that just isn't true. I see just as many Christian school kids leave the church as I do public school kids.

I've seen a lot of people send their kids to school with my daughter that hope that a Christian private school will fix their child or make up for what the family needs to do at home.

At the end of the day, a parent plays the most important role in a child's life outside of the child's relationship with Jesus.

That being said, teachers are very influential one way or another and I think that we can agree on.

[Purple Haize]

Some of you people hold up Christian education to a level that just isn't true. I see just as many Christian school kids leave the church as I do public school kids.

I've seen a lot of people send their kids to school with my daughter that hope that a Christian private school will fix their child or make up for what the family needs to do at home.

At the end of the day, a parent plays the most important role in a child's life outside of the child's relationship with Jesus.

That being said, teachers are very influential one way or another and I think that we can agree on.

I know those people

[Purple Haize]

BC. Do the math. Kids spend more time with their parents than they do their teachers. Yes, EVERYONE has a teacher who was a positive influence on their life. But that is usually because they are reinforcing what the family is teaching them.
Parents Influence>>>>Teachers Influence.

Other side of the coin. Look at the really 'bad' kids that get sent to Alternative Education. I don't care how good the teacher is, and I know a GREAT one, if they don't have a solid background then the odds of them changing is slim to none

[Yacht Rock]

lol ... and by the way, my daughter's first year isn't done yet and she already found an opportunity to bring the muppets to school for a report.

[Purple Haize]

I chortle audibly. ... and by the way, my daughter's first year isn't done yet and she already found an opportunity to bring the muppets to school for a report.

And it proves my point. I'm fairly certain her teacher didn't influence her love of Muppets

Btw,have you moved yet?

[Yacht Rock]

Yeah, we're all moved in to our new house now. That 3rd story apartment is a thing of the past...lol.

[Purple Haize]

Yeah, we're all moved in to our new house now. That 3rd story apartment is a thing of the past...I chortle audibly..

I'm sure it was much easier taking it DOWN the stairs...while not expecting a Deracho! Sweet apt though

[Yacht Rock]

Yeah, we're all moved in to our new house now. That 3rd story apartment is a thing of the past...I chortle audibly..

I'm sure it was much easier taking it DOWN the stairs...while not expecting a Deracho! Sweet apt though

Thanks...it was and we had a ton more help with people from our Life Group at church coming to help. Still owe you after last year.

[BCXtreme]

BC. Do the math. Kids spend more time with their parents than they do their teachers. Yes, EVERYONE has a teacher who was a positive influence on their life. But that is usually because they are reinforcing what the family is teaching them.
Parents Influence>>>>Teachers Influence.

Your insistence on characterizing this discussion as "parents' influence versus teachers' influence" just screams "oversimplification." If we are going to talk about influence, I think this characterization is more accurate: "parents' influence versus teachers' influence, media's influence, peers' influence, curriculum's influence, and (often) coaches' influence." That is an awful lot of influence for two parents to counteract. Your assertion that parents have the most, and strongest, influence over their kids is weakened by the fact that kids spend more than 30 hours per week in school and many more hours on unassisted homework; and completely controverted by the massive numbers of public-schooled youth leaving the church. And don't cite Christian-schooled kids' defection rate, because Christian schools have their own issues causing that, many of which are completely different from those found in public schools.

I chortle audibly. ... and by the way, my daughter's first year isn't done yet and she already found an opportunity to bring the muppets to school for a report.

And it proves my point. I'm fairly certain her teacher didn't influence her love of Muppets

Btw,have you moved yet?

Seriously? A little girl (K or 1st, I assume) likes Muppets, and that proves parents have the most influence over their kids? Okay, that's ridiculous, but I'll bite anyway. Put a little girl who loves the Muppets, influenced by parents who love the Muppets, in a school where the vast majority of voices around her and words in her textbooks tell her that the Muppets are stupid and "unintellectual," laugh at her for liking the Muppets, and scold her when she uses Muppet quotes as a basis for decisions. Then put her in a middle school and high school just like that, only progressively worse. If you really believe that she will graduate from high school and go on to college still unashamedly loving the Muppets, then there's not much point to debating you on this topic.

[ALUmnus]

Some of you people hold up Christian education to a level that just isn't true. I see just as many Christian school kids leave the church as I do public school kids.

Okay, so that's your experience. My experience is just the opposite. And my schwartz is bigger than yours, so I win.

[Purple Haize]

BC. Your math skills stink. Plus rearing children, like math, is haarrrdd.
30 hours a week with different teachers. They are not with them nights, weekends, holidays, vacations or summer break.
So 24 x 7 = 168. Hours in a week
Sleep 8x7 =. 56.
Leaving. 112 hours a week
School 30 hours a week
Leaving. 82 hours a week
Now are they with their parents that entire time? Nope. But even if it is only 1/2 that you are still looking at 40 + hours a week with the same people as opposed to rotating teachers

As for the Muppett, that was an inside joke. Even if it wasn't your example is invalid. Show me much of anything a kid likes in 1st grade that they still love after HS and College

[BJWilliams]

Im not placing Christian education on a pedestal. Im just saying that as a parent, I will be making the decision to not place my children in the public schools. Michael will have plenty of opportunities to get involved within the community in both Christian and non. My mom actually went to a public high school in DC when she grew up and turned out quite well. That said, when time came to put myself and my three sisters in school, she did not place us in the public school system in Virginia and I will be doing the same because for me it will be about making sure he has the same blessing that I did and that is getting the best educational opportunity where he can be educated not only in math, science, history and the humanities but also in critical thinking, apologetics, finance and civics among other things. Alina (my wife) and I will be actively involved in his life...to a greater degree than PH's numbers bear out. Now we aren't going to be with him all the time because frankly that might smother him, but we will be actively involved in every area as a parent should be, raising him to be an active part of the community, but also raising him up in the fear and admonition of the Lord and to have a grounded, authentic and personal faith rooted in scripture and meaningful life lessons.

[Purple Haize]

Im not placing Christian education on a pedestal. Im just saying that as a parent, I will be making the decision to not place my children in the public schools. Michael will have plenty of opportunities to get involved within the community in both Christian and non. My mom actually went to a public high school in DC when she grew up and turned out quite well. That said, when time came to put myself and my three sisters in school, she did not place us in the public school system in Virginia and I will be doing the same because for me it will be about making sure he has the same blessing that I did and that is getting the best educational opportunity where he can be educated not only in math, science, history and the humanities but also in critical thinking, apologetics, finance and civics among other things. Alina (my wife) and I will be actively involved in his life...to a greater degree than PH's numbers bear out. Now we aren't going to be with him all the time because frankly that might smother him, but we will be actively involved in every area as a parent should be, raising him to be an active part of the community, but also raising him up in the fear and admonition of the Lord and to have a grounded, authentic and personal faith rooted in scripture and meaningful life lessons.

outstanding back peddling from your earlier statement

[RubberMallet]

So, before you pass judgement on everyone associated with the horrible public school system, take a minute to think about where Jesus spent pretty much every moment of his ministry (hint: it wasn't with the religious people).

when he was a child he did.

[BJWilliams]

call it what you will but I feel like the best educational opportunity for him will not be in Churchland High School or whatever public school is closest to where we are living when the time comes. Im not going to send my son to someplace where he is told what to think. I want him to be able to learn reading, writing, arithmetic and be able to make an argument and be able to logically defend it and its not going to come in a place like that. Now, will he have friends from the public schools? Im sure he will. Will he have friends from Christian schools? No doubt. will he have friends who were homeschooled...I would certainly hope so. At the end of the day, its about what I think is best and I don't want to have a son who just spouts information, but someone who can learn and adapt and be able to be successful in whatever he puts his heart, soul and mind to, and I don't see that happening there.

[Purple Haize]

call it what you will but I feel like the best educational opportunity for him will not be in Churchland High School or whatever public school is closest to where we are living when the time comes. Im not going to send my son to someplace where he is told what to think. I want him to be able to learn reading, writing, arithmetic and be able to make an argument and be able to logically defend it and its not going to come in a place like that. Now, will he have friends from the public schools? Im sure he will. Will he have friends from Christian schools? No doubt. will he have friends who were homeschooled...I would certainly hope so. At the end of the day, its about what I think is best and I don't want to have a son who just spouts information, but someone who can learn and adapt and be able to be successful in whatever he puts his heart, soul and mind to, and I don't see that happening there.

You're saying that your kid won't be able to read, write or do arithmetic if he goes to any public school? Also, being told what to think is what school is the same at any type of school. I don't have an issue with sending kids to Private Schools. But it's your lumping of all public schools, teachers and students in such a derogatory light that is appallingly outrageous

[SuperJon]

We have a kid here who garnered national attention by speaking out against Common Core. He was awarded a free ride to Yale, Harvard, and UVA. He was SGA president as a junior at his school. He also plays in the band and occasionally leads worship for our high school ministry and he plays in the worship band in our weekend services. I guess his public school didn't teach him how to learn, adapt, and be able to be successful in whatever he puts his heart, soul and mind to.