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#408140
There were many reasons for the Civil War. The problem is that historians want to have some three bulleted approach to history, or however many. The first cause to the war... The second cause... The third... on and on and you get the point.

I would say that Virginia's secession was over states rights, however once again the North never did anything until the army raided the Union arsenal at Harper's Ferry. But take a look at that from a Federal viewpoint, and that is an official violation of sovereignty.

The biggest issue is that you have neo-confederates, and some who don't fundamentally understand the principle of federalism. States, themselves, had no rights. Only the individuals of those states have rights. Slavery was not a big issue, as Lincoln had no intention of freeing slaves (and as a reminder Kentucky, West Virginia, Maryland, and Delaware retained slavery until the passing the 13'th Amendment.

The North and South were primarily concerned about power. But yet when Lincoln became President, in my opinion, an irrational reaction occurred that prompted the South to secede. Now, I'm not going into discuss how the North treated the South because that is topic that can still be discussed and debated today. Why wouldn't you want to cut off food supply if your goal is to reach Richmond? It just makes common sense.

Anyways, I'm not sure what side I would have taken in this war had I been alive then. For what its worth my ancestors were Confederate sympathizers living in West Virginia. I see both sides, I just think some Southerners take it to an extreme.
#408177
Humble_Opinion wrote:
El Scorcho wrote:Back to China...

Three words: The Great Firewall
Scorch - as far as I can tell you have one of the best technical capacities on the boards here. Do you think the wall can be taken down as promised by the group Anonymous?
First, let me say that Anonymous doesn't amount to much but some kids with big mouths running attacks that I could teach anyone to do in about half an hour. They're effective because they're loud, but their attacks are not sophisticated (because they lack experience to do anything else). For what they're trying to accomplish, they don't need sophisticated attacks, but I point that out just to note what kind of people they are.

To answer that question: No. It can't be taken down. It can be bypassed quite easily by individual users (and that's no secret in China). In general, however, the government is watching and will continue to do so. The companies making the network gear that powers the Internet (primarily Cisco) will gladly build whatever the Chinese need to monitor their citizens. It's just business, after all.
Humble_Opinion wrote:What about the U.S.'s ability to attack another countries networks. We always hear about cyberdefense. What about our offensive capabilities? Do you know if we have any?
We have offensive capabilities and we've used them. We were the first nation to do (more or less) openly use military cyberweapons. Read about Stuxnet and the Flame operation. This is a great article about Stuxnet: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012 ... rol-of-it/

China has the edge, however. The Chinese are openly, constantly and relentlessly attempting to access data at every major U.S. company and research institution. When we confront them about it (remember Google being hacked 2 or 3 years ago?) they deny everything and then continue right along. The Chinese have the raw materials and the manufacturing capabilities to build whatever they want. What they lack is the intellectual property. They still don't have the knowledge to actually build the things. So they steal it. At least they try. And that's part of why you hear so much more about defense than offense.

IMO, we're royally screwed in this regard. We've put everything online and hardly anyone wants to pay (or deal with) securing it. The bulk of malicious traffic (by far) originates from China and almost no one in the U.S. understands the threat.

So. That's my answer to that.

I only cited The Great Firewall as an example of why I can't get behind the Chinese model for society. When they government so desperately needs to control information, the citizens have a problem. That's why I so vehemently opposed trojan legislation like PIPA and SOPA in the U.S. I do not believe in giving the government the ability to control the flow of information. I don't even believe in them being able to monitor it.
#408247
I don't have the knowledge base you have obviously, but I know they essentially use DNS attacks and that's about it (I think).
First, let me say that Anonymous doesn't amount to much but some kids with big mouths running attacks that I could teach anyone to do in about half an hour
Are you offering lessons? Sign me up!

I had read about Stuxnet. Pretty fascinating stuff, but from what I understood, they had to have obtained assistance from Siemens to accomplish what they accomplished. Correct? So essentially, Siemens provided the technical data on all of their equipment, which the U.S. based team was able to utilize to their advantage in the development of the Stuxnet virus.

I keep a pretty large file of stories and sources on China ranging from their military capabilities to some of the cyber attacks they carry out. I hope somewhere there are smarter people employed by the U.S. government thinking up crap on how to take the Chicoms out, because as we've seen, they seem hellbent on doing so to us.
#408272
Humble_Opinion wrote:I don't have the knowledge base you have obviously, but I know they essentially use DNS attacks and that's about it (I think).
The use DoS attacks to take down sites and attack web applications to pilfer data. Bottom of the barrel stuff.
First, let me say that Anonymous doesn't amount to much but some kids with big mouths running attacks that I could teach anyone to do in about half an hour
Humble_Opinion wrote:Are you offering lessons? Sign me up!
Nope. :D
#408447
A few more pieces from BBC sources as they keep up their recent focus on China:

How to get to the top of China's Communist Party http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19876372

What kind of superpower could China be? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19995218

There's nothing that suggests a formal series, but it appears they had several writers working on aspects of China and are releasing a few new articles daily.
#408484
NotAJerry wrote:
The discussion of how China operates with a central government, with most of the power in the various localities, makes me think they're closer to what our founding fathers envisioned than we are right now.
I agree NAJ. Clearly, China is closer to what the founding fathers would have wanted. I mean, Thomas Jefferson would have been perfectly okay with the government dictating what industry you are enter into when you are still a child. The individual cannot possibly have knowledge of what is best for their economic needs. Only the omniscient, omnipresent state could. Benjamin Franklin would absolutely relish in such genius!
Last edited by jbock13 on October 21st, 2012, 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
#408504
jbock13 wrote:He just writes these things for attention I swear.
He's probably hoping Ron Paul runs for Premier of China. With their history of free elections and RP's Founding Father's principals being so inline with RedChins it's not very far fetched
#408681
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... nt/?page=2
Mr. Chan said U.S. political leaders are so focused on short-term gains that they fail to make the painful long-term choices and changes in social programs needed to ensure the solvency of the government and vitality of the economy.
This quote, I believe, represents the key difference between the Chinese and the U.S. governments. The Chinese, utilizing their political model are able to take a much more long-term view in regards to their country's direction, whereas our political model has continued to crumble and become increasingly more partisan and focused on the short-term.

When comparing our current rivalry with China to the one we had in the Cold War with the USSR, it becomes clear that the Chinese, being the shrude historians they are, learned from the mistakes of their communist neighbors. Unlike the USSR, the Chinese embraced more free-market principles because they realized that a strict adhereance to Communism does not work. They still maintain a strict adhereance to their ideology where it suits them to, such as social and political controls over the populace. This enables them to set goals and then put in place the policies needed to obtain those goals over a period of several years. If our government were occupied by people who understand American Exceptionalism and the policies that enabled us to become exceptional, we might not be in the predicament we are in.
#408682
The disagreement I have with this is that it was the taste of freedom that helped hasten the fall of the Soviet Union. That is starting in China now on a small scale. The difference is the Chinese will squash it with tanks, the Soviet Union wouldn't, see Solidarity Movement
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