[jmdickens]

could not agree more....its a shame too

[JK37]

2. ...students who deserve answers....

I disagree. What gives any student - or anyone on this board, for that matter - the right to receive answers from Dr. Caner?! As for students, all they deserve is the ice water realization they were duped. If he did indeed deceive them, it was only because they allowed him to do so. The same goes for everyone else.

When God gave man a free will, He endowed us not just with the ability to independently make decisions, but furthermore the RESPONSIBILITY to do so (2 Timothy 2:15). Its amazing how often that edict goes unheeded!

[jmdickens]

okay...the students deserve answers because the students PAY for an education. These students are paying to be taught be Caner. When paying for a service, those providing the service are responsible to those paying for the service. lu and caner owe students an apology for the what happened.

[JK37]

okay...the students deserve answers because the students PAY for an education. These students are paying to be taught by Caner.

If said students are paying - and paying attention - I would estimate they are learning as much from Caner from this ordeal as from him in any classroom.

[SuperJon]

Isn't the report that the school sent out, the one saying he lied, considered an answer? Why is anything more than that needed?

Also, I fail to see how lying about the upbringing of Dr. Caner changes the degrees that he has or the knowledge that he has. I would also hope that because of this, he can turn it into a positive and use himself as a personal example of what not to do as a Christian leader. I don't know that he will do that but hopefully he will.

[jmdickens]

If said students are paying - and paying attention - I would estimate they are learning as much from Caner from this ordeal as from him in any classroom.

If ive ever heard a cop out, that takes the cake. Actions have consequences. If I lied on my admissions forms for law school, even the slightest margin of error (example hours of work during law school terms), the result is immediate expulsion. I believe in forgiveness and mercy, but this went on way too long to let him walk away unscathed.

SJ, I believe the school should openly apologize for not looking into his background a little deeper. It is their responsibility, right??

[SuperJon]

Sure. They can apologize for it but really it'd be nothing but a PR move. It'd be a mad libs type press release apologizing for it. In my eyes it wouldn't change anything if the school apologized.

None of this changes Caner's knowledge of Greek and Hebrew.

None of this changes Caner's knowledge of the world religions.

None of this changes Caner's ideas and vision for church planting and evangelism.

He doesn't deserve to be the president of the seminary. I can agree with that. However, as someone that has a degree from LBTS and someone who is working on a second one from there, I want him to be on the faculty and think he is a very valuable resource to our seminary. None of this changes any of that for me.

[jmdickens]

that is fine if he still is qualified on those subjects...but how do you trust he is telling you the truth, or only what he wants you to hear? Its an integrity issue for me and I think him bringing in so many more people to the seminary is the reason LU did not fire him. that is the same type of garbage we get from political parties. It gives Liberty a bad name, and also as one of his former students I am not sure I can take everything he taught without questioning the honesty of the message. If this had been someone else without the "stature" of Caner, to me, would have been fired.

[SuperJon]

that is fine if he still is qualified on those subjects...but how do you trust he is telling you the truth, or only what he wants you to hear? ... also as one of his former students I am not sure I can take everything he taught without questioning the honesty of the message.

Wow, yeah, you're taking that a whole lot further than I would ever even imagine. I'm not going to listen to him teach about how to discuss Christianity with a Hindu and think, "Man, he lied about his upbringing, I wonder if he's lying about these Hindu people too." To me, that's a little bit on the crazy side.

Also, how do we know he's still qualified on those subjects? No one is attacking him on his knowledge. No one is attacking his credibility when it comes to the things he knows and his teaching ability. They're attacking him on the claims of his background. If people thought he wasn't teaching the right thing, both when he speaks at churches/conferences and as a teacher, then people would be attacking and questioning that. No one brought that stuff up in the entire time these allegations were out there.

I've never been a huge Caner fan. I saw him speak a few times in campus church and from a preaching standpoint, have never really liked him. I just don't think there's any way to deny how intelligent he is and how well he can teach (and not in 200 person undergrad theology classes).

[jmdickens]

Isnt the word of God conveyed in the content of the message and the character of the messenger? Where is LU's stance biblically? Stop making excuses for Lu not firing someone who got their job as dean of the seminary because of their lies (I know, that is an assumption. but is one im willing to make because of his popularity of being brought up as a muslim living in turkey, who converted to christianity in a small country baptist church). I am sure his words were meant to be the same to my 200 persons class on theology is the same as your 30 persons classes on church history.


And me not trusting the words of a liar is crazy??? care to explain? Dont attack me...attack the argument.

[TDDance234]

It doesn't matter - he'll be gone as soon as this blows over and the next seminary is willing to make him their president.

[iFlame]

Since Dr. Caner will still be a professor I have a question about his teaching. A current LU student wrote about her experience in his class recently.

She said - http://faith2move.blogspot.com/2010/06/ ... day-1.html

We also discussed the various approaches to apologetics. I do not agree with the presuppositional view. This approach is often known as the Limited Atonement approach. Believes that Christ only died for the elect, and that only the elect can understand the evidence. They must first agree on certain presuppositions before the Gospel can be effectively presented.

I would definitely agree more closely with the evidential view: which would be commonly defined as a General Atonement approach. Basically, the evidential view says that Christ died for the world (John 3:16, right) and that each living soul has a God-shaped hole that can only be filled by God. Therefore, each person is created in the image of God (imago Dei) and can be shown using evidence that a personal God loves them.

These definitions of these apologetic methods are clearly false. Is this typical as to how Dr. Caner teaches theology, apologetics, etc.?

[jenkins]

Man im glad the people running the school don't think like this. We've got people throwing everyone on the bus in this discussion when none of us know the full truth yet. How can you make any determination until it's spelled out in depth the inaccuracies of his statements. Based off of what i've heard I agree completely with their actions to remove him as dean but leave him on staff. I thoroughly enjoyed his classes. Some people just live to criticize everything I guess. I would hope that the school and Caner use this as a valuable learning experience. Those of you worried about the school losing credibility, to who??? The people that don't deem it credible aren't going to change regardless of what happens. Just turn the back on every brother in Christ that stumbles and kick them out and banish them, is that really what we want to do. I think the school has taken appropriate action at the moment. I mean does anyone know 100% what the university's study found?

[SuperJon]

These definitions of these apologetic methods are clearly false. Is this typical as to how Dr. Caner teaches theology, apologetics, etc.?

How do you know this student even understands what was taught? How do you know she didn't fail the test? How do you know she's not just spouting stuff she knows nothing about?

[thepostman]

These definitions of these apologetic methods are clearly false. Is this typical as to how Dr. Caner teaches theology, apologetics, etc.?

How do you know this student even understands what was taught? How do you know she didn't fail the test? How do you know she's not just spouting stuff she knows nothing about?

nope...she has had one class with Caner on apologetic..she must be an expert...much like I am an expert on cults and sects because i took that class too...haha

clearly being sarcastic...

seriously people calm down...he isn't a freaking pastor at a church, stop treating it like he is...

[rogers3]

Man im glad the people running the school don't think like this. We've got people throwing everyone on the bus in this discussion when none of us know the full truth yet.

One thing that is true is the inequity that LU's leaders have displayed in their demoting current faculty and allowing Caner to maintain his faculty position with benefits. It is disappointing and discouraging to those who feel that the quality of LU's academic programs should be ever-improving.

[Schfourteenteen]

George O'Leary is a great football mind.

The straw man comes out.

[thepostman]

George O'Leary is a great football mind.

The straw man comes out.

no he's not, thats been proven at ucf...what he did with georgia tech was a fluke

[Hold My Own]

I don't want to say much on this because my opinion really doesn't matter. However i've read some posts about "not being a pastor" and i just wanted to say that i believe the punishment was because he's held to even a higher standard. I'm not sure the punishment would be the same if he was simply a professor. Instead he is training those going to go pastor a church of their own, or other highly respected fields in the ministry.

With that said I love the man, I'm sure he's going to bounce back from it. Many have done far worse and risen above it and gone on to do great things in the ministry

[jmdickens]

I don't want to say much on this because my opinion really doesn't matter. However i've read some posts about" not being a pastor" and i just wanted to say that i believe the punishment was because he's held to even a higher standard. I'm not sure the punishment would be the same if he was simply a professor. Instead he is training those going to go pastor a church of there own, or other highly respected fields in the ministry.

With that said I love the man, I'm sure he's going to bounce back from it. Many have done far worse and risen above it and gone on to do great things in the ministry

well...I hope God can use him...just not at Liberty

[JK37]

I hope God can use him...just not at Liberty

Did you ever take a class taught by Ed Hindson? I did, and I learned a lot. I'm glad God continued using him at Liberty.

[LUconn]

well...I hope God can use him...just not at Liberty

How big of you. I'm sure God appreciates your stipulations of where he can and can't use him

Man im glad the people running the school don't think like this.

I think this goes through my head just about every day on this board.

[jmdickens]

i just believe actions have consequences.

[LUconn]

Dude was president of the seminary. Now he's just another religion professor. I don't know if you're giving that the weight it deserves.

[JK37]

i just believe actions have consequences.

I used to make the similar blanket statements as you, under the same umbrella reasoning as this. Then I realized there's a difference between judging and passing judgment.

The former relates to analysis, to recognizing what is right and what is wrong - and is necessary for choosing to do right. The latter is concerned with assigning punishment. As frustrating as it can be to see someone's wrongdoing go seemingly less-punished or unpunished, we should only be in the business of assigning punishment when God has made it our business.

Lying is wrong. If Caner lied, he was wrong. But I'm not going to judge God for the way in which He's led others to handle it.