A Sea Of Red

DT announced that he is running for president (again). Anybody back on the MAGA bandwagon?

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/1 ... e-00067130

Most of what MAGA represents policy-wise I agree with. I just think there needs to be a new driver. DeSantis offers the best option INHO. Smart, savvy, unafraid of the Corp Media, America First, took on the COVID Industrial Complex when DJT was MIA. On top of that he doesn't have the baggage of Trump and he's younger.

If the GOP doesn't develop the intestinal fortitude to reject Trump this go around, the party will collapse and it will deserve it.

Humble_Opinion wrote: ↑November 16th, 2022, 3:21 pm Most of what MAGA represents policy-wise I agree with. I just think there needs to be a new driver. DeSantis offers the best option INHO. Smart, savvy, unafraid of the Corp Media, America First, took on the COVID Industrial Complex when DJT was MIA. On top of that he doesn't have the baggage of Trump and he's younger.

I agree with you. But I'm still waiting for him to address deep state corruption. Senators insider trading. Getting rich influence pedaling and selling US policy for personal gain. And what he'll do about a politicized DOJ, FBI etc. He's on top of the crazy woke stuff.

Trump will be the Republican nominee.

SumItUp wrote: ↑November 16th, 2022, 5:49 pm Trump will be the Republican nominee.

Perhaps so. And he’ll lose again. He has never garnered 50%. He won’t pick up any new support.

alabama24 wrote: ↑November 16th, 2022, 6:24 pm

SumItUp wrote: ↑November 16th, 2022, 5:49 pm Trump will be the Republican nominee.

Perhaps so. And he’ll lose again. He has never garnered 50%. He won’t pick up any new support.

I agree. That's why DeSantis needs to address the stuff I mentioned.

Trump is losing ground every day and DESANTIS is gaining every day.

Desantis will be president in 2024 and it may not be close.

Watching Pence tonight on CNN. It’s renewed my liking of him.

Cider Jim wrote: ↑November 16th, 2022, 10:47 am DT announced that he is running for president (again). Anybody back on the MAGA bandwagon?

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/1 ... e-00067130

If he wins the Party nomination I will vote for him. To not do so is to endorse that what we have now is ‘better’

I genuinely don't understand the Christian case for Trump at this point. I could see it in 2016 even though I disagreed, it was more of a stretch in 2020, but now? How do you justify supporting a person like that? Is winning political power really that important?

stokesjokes wrote: ↑November 17th, 2022, 11:18 am I genuinely don't understand the Christian case for Trump at this point. I could see it in 2016 even though I disagreed, it was more of a stretch in 2020, but now? How do you justify supporting a person like that? Is winning political power really that important?

Has nothing to do with Trump the man. It's all about policies and party platforms. Thankful for what Trump accomplished. DeSantis and Senator Tim Scott have a better chance of winning 2024 and getting us back on the track.

McConnell and McCarthy is disappointing. DeSantis should distance himself from them or Trump rises again.

stokesjokes wrote: ↑November 17th, 2022, 11:18 am I genuinely don't understand the Christian case for Trump at this point. I could see it in 2016 even though I disagreed, it was more of a stretch in 2020, but now? How do you justify supporting a person like that? Is winning political power really that important?

Who’s making a Christian case? It’s a Political Case. I’m absolutely not making a Christian case for any politician. It’s not the same field or the same qualifications. Would it be nice to have someone modeling a more Evangelical lifestyle? Sure. Is it a requirement? Should not be. I’ll take someone who isn’t opposed to my religious beliefs and/or actively trying to degrade me for having them
If we lived in a type of Theocracy then you’d absolutely need to make a Christian case for your political leaders. But we don’t

Democrats punked two groups this time. Those with student loans and FTX holders. Sad and they stick with them.

This is a big difference in perception, I think Trump absolutely is opposed to your religious beliefs. If you list the fruit of the Spirit, he's the embodiment of the exact opposite of them. Who could be more opposed?

Also, by saying "I'll take someone who isn't opposed to my religious beliefs," you are making a Christian case for him. I understand not wanting to support dems or dem policies, but supporting one or the other aren't your only options. Is there not a bare minimum of character necessary to gain your support?

TH Spangler wrote: ↑November 17th, 2022, 12:25 pm

stokesjokes wrote: ↑November 17th, 2022, 11:18 am I genuinely don't understand the Christian case for Trump at this point. I could see it in 2016 even though I disagreed, it was more of a stretch in 2020, but now? How do you justify supporting a person like that? Is winning political power really that important?

Has nothing to do with Trump the man. It's all about policies and party platforms. Thankful for what Trump accomplished. DeSantis and Senator Tim Scott have a better chance of winning 2024 and getting us back on the track.

McConnell and McCarthy is disappointing. DeSantis should distance himself from them or Trump rises again.

TH Spangler wrote: ↑November 9th, 2022, 1:46 pm 49% of the country would vote for Lucifer if you put a D behind his name.

This U?

trump is a tool. both figuratively and literally. (this is where i get silly). similarly to the way the pharaoh was a tool. God used him (hardened his heart) to teach the jews some sort of lesson. Trump was likely the only one who could of beat hillary. and as a result these 6 years later, Roevwade was overturned. a giant "win" for Christians IMO.

I think the realization is that we are rarely, if ever, going to get a truly Godly person as a choice. All you can hope for is someone who's values seemingly aligns with your values more than the other person. Or will at least fight for those values regardless of their reason for doing so. For Christians, right to life is probably one of the biggest voting issues they have. I truly believe that if that was no issue at all, more Christians would be easier to sway left.

it is impossible to separate your political values from your "Christian" values. they will always be tied together. obviously there are people who don't think this way. There are people I know that think Trump is a saint.

stokesjokes wrote: ↑November 17th, 2022, 1:57 pm This is a big difference in perception, I think Trump absolutely is opposed to your religious beliefs. If you list the fruit of the Spirit, he's the embodiment of the exact opposite of them. Who could be more opposed?

Also, by saying "I'll take someone who isn't opposed to my religious beliefs," you are making a Christian case for him. I understand not wanting to support dems or dem policies, but supporting one or the other aren't your only options. Is there not a bare minimum of character necessary to gain your support?

How is Trump opposed to my religious beliefs? What legislation did he propose that was antithetical to it? That’s also not making a ‘Christian Case’ for him. It’s saying ‘Here are my beliefs. This person in political office will be the best to let me practice them unhindered. “.
You are absolutely incorrect and it’s a feel good fallacy lots of folks fall into to justify not making hard choices. In America at this point in time you have 2 choices for President. That’s it. You can say there are others but there are not. It’s a cop out. In the Primaries there are going to be a bunch of options. THATS where you can pick and chose among many. But in the general you only have 2.

RubberMallet wrote: ↑November 17th, 2022, 2:04 pm trump is a tool. both figuratively and literally. (this is where i get silly). similarly to the way the pharaoh was a tool. God used him (hardened his heart) to teach the jews some sort of lesson. Trump was likely the only one who could of beat hillary. and as a result these 6 years later, Roevwade was overturned. a giant "win" for Christians IMO.

I think the realization is that we are rarely, if ever, going to get a truly Godly person as a choice. All you can hope for is someone who's values seemingly aligns with your values more than the other person. Or will at least fight for those values regardless of their reason for doing so. For Christians, right to life is probably one of the biggest voting issues they have. I truly believe that if that was no issue at all, more Christians would be easier to sway left.

it is impossible to separate your political values from your "Christian" values. they will always be tied together. obviously there are people who don't think this way. There are people I know that think Trump is a saint.

I disagree to some extent with your last paragraph. There are lots of Christian Values I vote for but some I vote against. Once you introduce a Government obligation and the threat of force things no longer become‘Christian’. So while I wholeheartedly support our churches community outreach, Godparent homes, local charitable organizations I’m not sure I want to willfully impose that upon everyone

Purple Haize wrote: ↑November 17th, 2022, 2:38 pm It’s saying ‘Here are my beliefs. This person in political office will be the best to let me practice them unhindered. “

How is this not a Christian case for Trump?

And we don't have compulsory voting in America. You don't have to choose. You don't have to vote. I see a vote as an endorsement, and if I can't endorse, I won't vote.

RubberMallet wrote: ↑November 17th, 2022, 2:04 pm Or will at least fight for those values regardless of their reason for doing so.

This reasoning for supporting Trump is dangerous for me, based on the reason he has seemingly aligned with republican values. It's all in support of his ego. As we have seen, he will literally do anything in support of his ego, which makes him dangerous. What happens when the needs of his narcissism no longer align with fighting with your values and turn into fighting against them? The alignment is super tenuous and untrustworthy.

we live in a society that allows us to every so often rid ourselves of those people. but otherwise, what other option do we have if one is the nominee? or a single choice in a sea of other worldly nominees? you are making it seem like our only option is to then write in our pastor for president. which is not ideal from a political standpoint.

What presidential candidate over the last 20 years has really truly in your mind been a good representation of Christian values? what legitimate presidential candidate (either party) in the past however long wouldn't literally do anything in support of their ego/power accumulation? You are placing Trump on some pedestal of villainy over the rest of our politicians because hes loud and annoying.

I'm saying Trump does not meet the bare minimum threshold of character to justify supporting him on policy. That's very different thank asking for a pastor for president. I think framing the concerns of those in the Never Trump camp as because of him being "loud and annoying" or "mean tweets" is absurdly dismissive. That's not actually reckoning with his behavior. He is, has been, and will be a danger to the Republic if he doesn't lose support this go around. And that's because of his character.

RubberMallet wrote:what legitimate presidential candidate (either party) in the past however long wouldn't literally do anything in support of their ego/power accumulation?

I think this question answers itself. What past candidate lied for months about election fraud with no evidence, conspired to create "fake electors" to overturn that election, and when that didn't work, whipped a crowd up into a frenzy that breached the capitol to try to stop the election from being certified? Just because his ego can't entertain the concept of losing. We're not talking about regular think-too-highly-of-himself politician, we're talking about dangerous personality disorder stuff.

stokesjokes wrote: ↑November 17th, 2022, 5:16 pm I'm saying Trump does not meet the bare minimum threshold of character to justify supporting him on policy. That's very different thank asking for a pastor for president. I think framing the concerns of those in the Never Trump camp as because of him being "loud and annoying" or "mean tweets" is absurdly dismissive. That's not actually reckoning with his behavior. He is, has been, and will be a danger to the Republic if he doesn't lose support this go around. And that's because of his character.

RubberMallet wrote:what legitimate presidential candidate (either party) in the past however long wouldn't literally do anything in support of their ego/power accumulation?

I think this question answers itself. What past candidate lied for months about election fraud with no evidence, conspired to create "fake electors" to overturn that election, and when that didn't work, whipped a crowd up into a frenzy that breached the capitol to try to stop the election from being certified? Just because his ego can't entertain the concept of losing. We're not talking about regular think-too-highly-of-himself politician, we're talking about dangerous personality disorder stuff.

Demarcates are better at dirty politics than republicans. But Trump could play their game, scared them to death

I’m shocked you think he’s the only past president with a personality disorder.