[jmdickens]

That's a bit extreme. I mean I get your argument but it's quite an exaggeration. As someone who 99% agree with you.

Ehh...which part? Some here would say it is all extreme, so you need to be specific if we want more posts.

[Purple Haize]

For things to change, the Republicans have to gain complete control of the U.S. Capital with a Super Majority in the Senate plus the presidency this cycle, or there has to be a cultural revolution in the country.

I hope you are being jocular with your choice of words. Republicans have been the biggest offenders of BIG government. George W. Bush ran on the same foreign policy as Ron Paul and Ronald Reagan until after 9/11 and then he went Hitler. lol...maybe a small stretch but closer comparison than not.

]

Wow. For starters W ran more on a Teddy Roosevelt foreign policy then Ron Paul. Secondly, 9/11 changed EVERYTHING. You can't just gloss over that. Finally, Pol Pot, Stalin, Sadaam Hussein are comparable to Hitler. To insinuate any tie in policy between Hitler and W is naive, incendiary, inflammatory and WRONG.

[jbock13]

That's a bit extreme. I mean I get your argument but it's quite an exaggeration. As someone who 99% agree with you.

Ehh...which part? Some here would say it is all extreme, so you need to be specific if we want more posts.

actually, I reread it and I think your right. My bad lol. I was acting like Congress by glancing at the bill and not reading it.

[Purple Haize]

That's a bit extreme. I mean I get your argument but it's quite an exaggeration. As someone who 99% agree with you.

Ehh...which part? Some here would say it is all extreme, so you need to be specific if we want more posts.

actually, I reread it and I think your right. My bad lol. I was acting like Congress by glancing at the bill and not reading it.

Sorta like a birthday card. You glance at it. If a check falls out you read it and look to see who sent it!

[jmdickens]

Wow. For starters W ran more on a Teddy Roosevelt foreign policy then Ron Paul. Secondly, 9/11 changed EVERYTHING. You can't just gloss over that. Finally, Pol Pot, Stalin, Sadaam Hussein are comparable to Hitler. To insinuate any tie in policy between Hitler and W is naive, incendiary, inflammatory and WRONG.

I said it was a stretch, but I guess it was the total 180 Bush did that made me compare him to Hitler. But the strategy of Preemptive War was started by Hitler, and what we did in the middle east was comparable to that. We are expanding "Democratic or Americanism" into the middle east and that is what the Germans did with "Nazism". I dont like it, but it is what it is.

[jmdickens]

Sorta like a birthday card. You glance at it. If a check falls out you read it and look to see who sent it!

I was thinking the message board is more like a movie...The more polarizing, the more views!!! Not really

[Purple Haize]

Wow. For starters W ran more on a Teddy Roosevelt foreign policy then Ron Paul. Secondly, 9/11 changed EVERYTHING. You can't just gloss over that. Finally, Pol Pot, Stalin, Sadaam Hussein are comparable to Hitler. To insinuate any tie in policy between Hitler and W is naive, incendiary, inflammatory and WRONG.

I said it was a stretch, but I guess it was the total 180 Bush did that made me compare him to Hitler. But the strategy of Preemptive War was started by Hitler, and what we did in the middle east was comparable to that. We are expanding "Democratic or Americanism" into the middle east and that is what the Germans did with "Nazism". I dont like it, but it is what it is.

You are so wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to start
The strategy of Preemptive war was NOT started by Hitler. It happened 100 years earlier in 1837 from a legal stand point
Are we occupying Iraq and Afg? No. Are we plundering their natural resources for our own uses? No. Are we deporting a particular ethnic group for use as slave labor or extermination? Nope. Are we allowing free elections? Yep. Are we requiring them to be part of our Hegemony? No.

We may be exporting Democracy. But Democracy and Hitlers version of National Socialism are two entirely different things. The Nazis did it by the barrel of a gun bent upon world domination and subjugation. We want to do our jobs and go home. Again, your comparison can only be called faulty, not a stretch.

[jmdickens]

To just deny that we are at war for anything other than our own interest is delusional and dangerous because it leaves the idea of no victory, no goal and no reason to leave.

How can you even believe we have not Occupied Iraq and Afghanistan? We Invaded both countries with no identifiable goals and yet we still have troops stationed in both countries. Youre lying to yourself. We are threatening to now go into Iran now bc of the idea of a nuclear weapon. Or maybe we will hit them if they close the Strait of Hormuz because of oil trade. It is all BS.

I still argue we are exporting Americanism in the wrong way. All over the middle east you have american companies that have used the rebuilding of the Middle East as a way to invest there. Call it global economics but it is because of our force that these businesses are in the Middle East.Give me 4 years of Ron Paul and ending the spread of our empire and I believe you will see a revival of liberty and peace. We are in the worst position ever as a country, republicans like war and democrats want moan and whine of our nation building because a democrat is in the white house. We are in serious trouble because of our mistake of believing we are the police of the world. Peace and Love

[Purple Haize]

I've never heard of a war NOT fought for a countries own interest. That's sort of the point. We fought the Revolutionary War for our own interests.
You have an illogical definition of Occupy. Are we occupying France Japan or Australia? We have troops there. We even fought the Japanese. So if we just look at countries we fought where we have troops we must be occupying Germany, Austria, Italy, Turkey, Japan and Vietnam.
What you call Americanism, I call Democracy. We used to have 2 Super Powers during the Cold War. Each exporting their ideas of the world. We won that one. Yeah us! Now we are the only SuperPower so we do have a lot of influence. America is not the only country or even culture that tries to spread its influence with conflict.
Finally, for Iran I don't see a lot of people clamoring to invade. I agree 100% that Iran should NOT be allowed to build a nuclear weapon. They are not rational, by Western thought, actors. It is obvious that under the Bush administration we started doing some clandestine work to prevent that and Obama has let it continue. Eventually though someone is going to have to go in their and destroy the infra structure.
The world does not operate by the If I Leave You Alone, You Will Leave Me Alone philosophy.

[TH Spangler]

On Iran ....

The fear is warranted according to Dennis Gartman, who explained Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has declared himself a follower of a “nihilist” school of Islamic thought that believes “in the return of the “Mah’di”… the 12th Imam… who will, after a holocaust and the annihilation of the non-Muslims, establish a global Islamic society.” Ahmadinejad has publicly said that Israel should be wiped off the map, and, according to Gartman “has made it clear that it is his intention to destroy Israel and if that shall require a nuclear weapon and war so be it. He is prepared to push ahead with martyrdom, and martyrs make for impossible debaters.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecch ... recession/

Obama missed his chance for regime change by internal forces in 2009. If this guy gets the bomb he will use it. Even a Ron Paul presidency would have to act.

[jbock13]

What I don't get is how people are upset about Obama's foreign policy. If you loved George Bush, then you should fall in love with Obama, who has continued all of those policies. Well, except for the apology tours.

[Purple Haize]

What I don't get is how people are upset about Obama's foreign policy. If you loved George Bush, then you should fall in love with Obama, who has continued all of those policies. Well, except for the apology tours.

Thats a big exception! The Apology tour is horrible. I also disagree that he has the same policy as W. for starters W would have done a whole lot to help The Green uprising in Iran. He learned from dads mistake with the Kurds and Tieneman Square. Had THAT been more vigorously supported, the Iran situation would look a whole lot different. Egypt and Libya would have also had different outcomes. Leaders in the Middle East feared and respected (which is sorta the same thing) W.

[jmdickens]

I've never heard of a war NOT fought for a countries own interest. That's sort of the point. We fought the Revolutionary War for our own interests.
You have an illogical definition of Occupy. Are we occupying France Japan or Australia? We have troops there. We even fought the Japanese. So if we just look at countries we fought where we have troops we must be occupying Germany, Austria, Italy, Turkey, Japan and Vietnam.
What you call Americanism, I call Democracy. We used to have 2 Super Powers during the Cold War. Each exporting their ideas of the world. We won that one. Yeah us! Now we are the only SuperPower so we do have a lot of influence. America is not the only country or even culture that tries to spread its influence with conflict.
Finally, for Iran I don't see a lot of people clamoring to invade. I agree 100% that Iran should NOT be allowed to build a nuclear weapon. They are not rational, by Western thought, actors. It is obvious that under the Bush administration we started doing some clandestine work to prevent that and Obama has let it continue. Eventually though someone is going to have to go in their and destroy the infra structure.
The world does not operate by the If I Leave You Alone, You Will Leave Me Alone philosophy.

First, we are not a Democracy. We are a Republic. It is based on the foundational constructs of the Rule of Law. We have so much goodness in our country and we should promote it, but we should not force it on other nations through a barrel of a gun. We want other countries to emulate us because we are "the shining city upon a Hill".

Based on your idea of Americanism, we should respect law. According to the UN Security Council, we violated the law when going to Iraq, and not following our constitutional requirement for congressional approval, we don't even follow our own laws.

We are Rome....Stretching the military too thin to expand the empire along with inflation by the debasing of the currency resulted in the fall of the Roman Empire. That reminds me of our country. We cant better manage a failed concept of empire spreading. Give me a break

[Purple Haize]

We are exporting Democracy not Republicanism.
I don't put a ton of moral or legal authority in the UN. They would also like us to void the 2nd Amendment.
Congress authorized the use of force and passed a resolution for Regime Change in Iraq.
Now you are going with Rome? Really? Do we have Emporer's? We are for from an Empire. Currency and a military stretched too thin had more to do with the personal corruption of the EMPORER, which we do not have.
There has never been anything like America. To use your 2 example: if the Nazi's come up with the Bomb first, would they have shown such restraint as we have? What if the Romans had a similar weapon? Caesar Caligula or Nero with The Bomb? Absurd? Sorta. But we are not a people who subjugate others. We do not occupy countries with Governors and Viceroys. We are unique.

[jmdickens]

We are exporting Democracy not Republicanism.
I don't put a ton of moral or legal authority in the UN. They would also like us to void the 2nd Amendment.
Congress authorized the use of force and passed a resolution for Regime Change in Iraq.
Now you are going with Rome? Really? Do we have Emporer's? We are for from an Empire. Currency and a military stretched too thin had more to do with the personal corruption of the EMPORER, which we do not have.
There has never been anything like America. To use your 2 example: if the Nazi's come up with the Bomb first, would they have shown such restraint as we have? What if the Romans had a similar weapon? Caesar Caligula or Nero with The Bomb? Absurd? Sorta. But we are not a people who subjugate others. We do not occupy countries with Governors and Viceroys. We are unique.

that is absolutely inaccurate. Democracy just means that majority rules. I am sure if we polled the Middle Eastern countries, the majority would tell us to get out. we are exporting: "Do what we say and we will send you money, if you dont do what we say we might start bombing you" type of government. Not Democracy

The UN does have standards on International Law that make sense and we violated one by invading another country that is not a direct threat to us. If you want to say that the 1998 resolution signed by Clinton was a declaration of war, then you are full of it. That peace of legislation was used as evidence in 2002 as support for the invasion, not an actual Bill to allow the President to go to war.

We are Rome. We are doing what they did. Part of the expansion was because of the desire that Rome had for everyone to be like Rome. They didnt have the military forces to spread so they hired (foreign & domestic) mercenaries to fight for them. They ultimately turned on them....

We are doing exactly what the Romans did. Cant deny it

[Purple Haize]

Yes I can. We are not Rome. See how easy that was?
Besides earlier you said we are Nazi's.
A Republic is a form of democracy.
We do not have Emperor's
The UN is a den of snakes and thieves. The list is long and distinguished of Resolutions that are never headed.
We don't bomb every country if they 'don't want our money' as you put it.
Which people in the Middle East are you polling?

[kuntryboimike]

Not sure who here supports Obama but anyone who votes for him this time around is anti-military as far as I'm concerned. You can pack your things and leave this country for all I care. You don't cut benefits from those who provide the freedom for this country! Get this soldier hater of frickin office!

In an effort to cut defense spending, the Obama Administration plans to cut health benefits for active duty and retired military personnel and their families

http://m.examiner.com/conservative-in-s ... on-workers

[kuntryboimike]

By the why, did I mention I despise Obama? Why wait for re-election kick him out now.

[RubberMallet]

did you just pull out the "WELL YOU KIN GIIIIIIIIIIT OUT OF UR COUNTRAH!" card?

[jbock13]

Good Lord. Just because you hate Obama doesn't mean you get to make up facts about him. He was born in Hawaii. Get over it.

This why I have never liked the tea party and all their Obama conspiracies crap. Oh, and he's not some secret Muslim either. Goodness.

[ALUmnus]

Why are you pinning conspiracies on the tea party? You're making a connection that's not there. I think there's a smart sorta word for that, just can't remember what it is.

[jbock13]

Why are you pinning conspiracies on the tea party? You're making a connection that's not there. I think there's a smart sorta word for that, just can't remember what it is.

Okay, fair enough. Some in the Tea Party.

[Purple Haize]

Why are you pinning conspiracies on the tea party? You're making a connection that's not there. I think there's a smart sorta word for that, just can't remember what it is.

Ronbot? I kid I I kid.

[Humble_Opinion]

You know - I'm really not an advocate for citing Wikipedia as a source, but since someone in this thread is actually using the UN as a source - I feel this is justified.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution

There was an Iraq War Resolution, authorizing the use of force against Iraq for several reasons (no it was not all about WMD). For anyone who knows anything, the Iraqis repeatedly shot at our aircraft and violated the No Fly Zone. While the 1991 Persian Gulf War ended for us citizens in the country and the media - it did not end for those in the U.S. Navy and Air Force.

Also, while arguments can be made that we are 'occupying' two countries - it is completely absurd to associate our intentions and exploits with those of the Roman Empire. We do not 'rule' these people, we have rebuilt their infrastructure, provided security when there was none, instituted free elections that were certified by an International Board - all without extracting valuable natural resources and enslaving the local population. So seriously, cut the crap.

That being said - I still think we should get the heck out of dodge and issue the sternest of warnings that if we have to come back to these parts of the world again - it will not be for the purpose of liberation.

[kuntryboimike]

Good Lord. Just because you hate Obama doesn't mean you get to make up facts about him. He was born in Hawaii. Get over it.

This why I have never liked the tea party and all their Obama conspiracies crap. Oh, and he's not some secret Muslim either. Goodness.

Making up facts? He frickin announced the change of medical benefits plan himself! And who said he's a muslim? Not me. The birth certificate thing is ridiculous but that's not even my biggest concern. Those of you on here trying to back up Obama still haven't given an acceptable reason why it's okay to rip off the soldiers. I'm assuming MOST of you who still back him have NEVER served in the Military.