[TallyW]

I agree that frivilous law suits aren't the direction we should go but I wouldn't define this as such. Apparently 7,000+ people think it's not frivilous. Religious freedoms are being stripped on a regular basis and unfortunately most places don't care about a kumbaya hand holding circle... they care about bad press and defending a lawsuit. The point also isn't who doesn't come to their campus next semester. If W&M continues to remove faith from the public square and show intollerance to faith, they should be held accountable. It is not a positive solution that Christians (or other faiths) end up feeling unwanted on campus. Enrollment wouldn't go down because of this... it's just that the makeup of the enrollment would change. That isn't a solution.

Also, not EVERYTHING is handled through a lawsuit. Friendly letters are how things are handled out of court. When someone is in the wrong a friendly letter is a polite (not to mention inexpensive and normally low-key) way of handling things. The law must be utilized when it is a law that someone is violating.

Haize, your agrument seems to put groups like LC or ACLJ up there with ambulance chasers who make bad local commercials. They aren't. Recently a good friend of mine (who is also a Pastor) in Texas called and told me of a situation where children were being prohibited from giving personal invitations to a church event. Even though the invitations were handed out to everyone and on the kid's own time, the school claimed church/state. Well, a quick fax from the Liberty Counsel got the school to leave the child alone. Children especially don't know their rights and we should consider the fact that when an adult tells a kid that inviting people to church is wrong... that kid is not likely to push the envelope much further. The Principle of the school didn't listen to the parent. It took a friendly letter to get the school to back off and let the child do what his legal rights allow him to do.

Yes it's a case by case basis but we can't toss out the baby with the bath water. Christians have to play hardball sometimes and speak up for injustice wherever it is.

[Purple Haize]

Tally - Agreed, it is on a case by case basis. Handing out invitations, agreed that was well handled. I would caution not to A) play with matches and B) Not justify a law suit b/c the number of people involved. There were a lot of people who didn't like that whole going to the promised land thing, or Equal Rights thing. I agree that issues like this are best handled out of court, but, and this is where we disagree, a letter from a legal organization seems a bit drastic to me. A more effective way, IMO, is to get agroup of alum and/or donors to send that letter. I would be at that point the displays would be back up by the president him/herself.
You did bring up a good point I have not thought about (do you need a moment?) I am not sure whether or not I put groups like LC in with the ACLU/Ambulance chasers or not. I will have to ponder that over the next week. I DO know that if I see a person with a comb over and bad hair coloring appear a'la James Sokolov style, my mind will be made up !!!!
PEACE
Happy Holidays (Just goofin, you can have a Merry Christmas if you want!!!)

[Sly Fox]

And here is your wishy-washy end result:

W&M cross will return to chapel on Sundays

WILLIAMSBURG, Va. The great cross debate at the College of William and Mary is resolved -- sort of.
President Gene Nichol announced today that the two-foot-high, century-old bronze cross removed from the altar at Wren Chapel in October will be returned to the chapel on Sundays.

He hoped to appease some of the more than seven thousand people who signed an online petition to return the cross.

The Liberty Counsel, a legal advocacy group with ties to Jerry Falwell's Liberty University, even threatened a lawsuit.

Nichol originally ordered the cross moved to a storage room to help non-Christians feel more welcome in Wren Chapel. The chapel is in the Wren Building, which is used for secular meetings, including annual school-wide events.

Nichol says he doubts his solution will please everyone.

http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.asp?S ... =menu368_2

[PeterParker]

***Note that I do not have problems with the Liberty Counsel pursuing its mission statement (although I wouldn't mind it not being named the same as my alma mater); I would simply like more separation between the entities. My problem is that invariably the counsel's views on a particular issue and suits they file will ultimately pigeon-hole the graduates of the school in the public perception. For those who want to brazenly say that opinion doesn't matter, it does when one tries to get a job outside of the christian bubble.

http://www.nljonline.com/index.php?opti ... 4&Itemid=0


From the 2/07 National Liberty Journal:

With God there is Only One Giant in the Land

The New Year promises to be exciting


MATHEW D. STAVER

Founder and Chairman, Liberty Counsel

Dean, Liberty University School of Law


I am unusually excited at the onset of 2007 because strategic foundations were established last year that I believe will bring about many new opportunities in the coming year. As the founder of Liberty Counsel, I see the vision God gave me for this ministry being fulfilled. As the dean of Liberty University School of Law, I see unparalleled possibilities for the future as we train a new generation to use the law as a fulcrum for good.



One “new foundation” involves the December 2006 opening of a new office in Washington, D.C., for Liberty Counsel and Liberty University. Having a permanent base of operation in our nation’s capital has been one of my key visions for years. The Moral Majority, under the leadership of Dr. Jerry Falwell, maintained an office there through most of the 1970s and 80s.


Liberty Raised to Higher Power


We are back with additional strategic operations. This new office will provide greater opportunities to craft national public policy, monitor judicial appointments, network, coordinate and strategize with policymakers and world leaders. As I see it, we now have a three-fold cord, which includes Liberty University, Liberty Counsel and Liberty Alliance (also known as the Moral Majority Coalition). In a very real sense, we now have Liberty raised to the third power (Liberty3 ), or what I sometimes refer to as “Liberty raised to a Higher Power.”


Liberty University is the world’s largest evangelical university with more than 120,000 alumni. This educational powerhouse is training a new generation to be what we term “salt and light soldiers” in law, religion, church and worldwide missions, medicine, business, government, education, arts and science, engineering, literature and many other areas. Editorial: Just a passing thought; While I am aware that scripture speaks of the christian life in terms of the discipline of a soldier, I really wince when I hear the "war" vernacular bandied about incessantly(LU representatives from the Religious studies area seem to be especially fond of using it.) I am no "Polical Correctness" aficionado, but the extremist Muslims utilize similar vernacular about their faith fighting the corrupt cultures of the world. IMHO, if more would actually do something out of pocket to help the poor & downtrodden instead of always talking and making grandiose political overtures, more people might be attracted to the faith. After all, Jesus eschewed the politics and hung out with the undervalued demographic--and people flocked to hear his message. Seems that a large segment of the modern christian demographic seems to be dogmatically latched onto the authoritarian "war like" element of christianity (us verse them & do this, don't do that) and fail to incorporate, integrate and exude the Christ-like behavior pattern of grace and compassion to their fellow man. Obviously, I am not saying that christians shouldn't utilize the political or legal avenues for due process in representation of grievances; however, it just occurs to me that the 21st century christian has been groomed to come out with "sword of the law" brandished first, rather than with cool cup of water extended.


Liberty Counsel is one of the nation’s premiere public interest law firms gaining victory after victory in defense of religious freedom, the family and the sanctity of human life.


Liberty Alliance is a grass roots policy organization mobilizing citizens to vote and engage the political culture. Liberty Alliance carries on the spirit of the Moral Majority and, since 2004, is also known as The Moral Majority Coalition.


Impact in Washington, D.C.


Perhaps the greatest effect of this new office will be to extend our internship and placement programs to Congress, the Cabinet and the White House. We are training young champions for Christ to become real leaders, and there could be no better way to have an impact on our national culture than to place young men and women in the highest levels of spiritual, political and judicial influence.


We are asking for mighty miracles.


The Apostle Paul wrote that we walk by faith, not by sight (II Corinthians 5:7). Faith is seeing what is not yet visible (Hebrews 11:1). Since we already have had interns working in the Capitol, and since we have worked with national policymakers for some time now, it is easy to see what can now be accomplished with a fully staffed, permanent office in the District of Columbia.


With the new Democrat leadership taking its place, having a permanent office is now more important than ever. I have always believed that the best strategy to win is to continually advance and never to retreat.


The fact is, I am optimistic about the future of the office in Washington, D.C., regardless of which party is in power. I encourage everyone involved in this vital work to be like Joshua and Caleb who spied out the Promised Land: Look for God’s presence, not the giants.


Challenging the ACLU


Another foundation established last year that will bear great fruit in 2007 involves Liberty University School of Law and Liberty Counsel. Last year, I assumed the role as dean of the School of Law. My highly capable wife Anita became the president of Liberty Counsel.


The net result is that both Liberty Counsel and the Liberty University School of Law are in a better position to train new lawyers to defend religious freedom, the sanctity of human life and the traditional family.


In May, the school of law will graduate its first class of 50 new lawyers. We will soon thereafter be annually graduating about 150 students who will use the law as a fulcrum for good in all areas of the culture, including education, policy making, government service, legal practice or other fields of ministry.


By way of perspective, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has an army of 8,000 volunteer attorneys using law for what we see as destructive purposes. While deploying a new group of lawyers annually following three years of intense training, we will also implement training programs for law students from other institutions, as well as programs for practicing attorneys. We are encouraged by the example of Gideon’s army in that we don’t need to match the exact number of lawyers who oppose our values.


We just need a committed contingent of the right kind of lawyers.