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By Jonathan Carone
#546545 There are two things all of us can agree on regardless of where we stand on the gun debate:

1) There are laws on the books that are not being enforced.

2) There was a massive failure at many levels in Parkland.

Here is my question:

What can be done to ensure the laws on the books begin being enforced? If that’s where we need to start, how do we make it happen?
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#546547
Jonathan Carone wrote:There are two things all of us can agree on regardless of where we stand on the gun debate:

1) There are laws on the books that are not being enforced.

2) There was a massive failure at many levels in Parkland.

Here is my question:

What can be done to ensure the laws on the books begin being enforced? If that’s where we need to start, how do we make it happen?


States and Municipalities were bribed with Federal Money to put their info and keep it updated in the database and didn’t do it. The ‘evil’ NRA pushed and pushed to get the Databases up and current. To no avail. I mean that would certainly fall under the category of ‘Do Something ‘. But an incomplete database isn’t as sexy a villain as the NRA and scary looking firearms
By flamehunter
#546549 The NRA's purpose is singular - protect the Second Amendment rights of law abiding citizens. It is the job of government to enforce laws and protect the citizens. The blame sent to the NRA is 100% political and severely misplaced. The "pure as the driven snow" (according to some) media has done nothing but cover up the inadequacies of the government's role in all this by being the mouthpiece of the anti-gun agenda. Until the focus is directed in the right direction these events will continue to happen with regularity. I'm not a conspiracy guy, but the failures at Parkland ALMOST look like a deliberate attempt to allow this to happen.
User avatar
By Jonathan Carone
#546552
flamehunter wrote:Im not a conspiracy guy, but the failures at Parkland ALMOST look like a deliberate attempt to allow this to happen.


I think it was the opposite. From some of the things I’ve read, the Broward police and Broward schools entered in an agreement to not arrest students. This allowed their safety rankings to increase which would increase funding. This is how Cruz was visited but never arrested.
User avatar
By Class of 20Something
#546556
Jonathan Carone wrote:This allowed their safety rankings to increase which would increase funding. This is how Cruz was visited but never arrested.


38 Times.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#546558
Jonathan Carone wrote:
flamehunter wrote:Im not a conspiracy guy, but the failures at Parkland ALMOST look like a deliberate attempt to allow this to happen.


I think it was the opposite. From some of the things I’ve read, the Broward police and Broward schools entered in an agreement to not arrest students. This allowed their safety rankings to increase which would increase funding. This is how Cruz was visited but never arrested.


Smoke and mirrors. It’s why students weren’t allowed to be expelled at that school district. It’s why it takes a super natural act for a kid in LCS Alternative Ed to be suspended. It’s about the money. They can say ‘Hey look at these numbers!!’ We are awesome. No one gets suspended. Look at all these students. We need more ‘resources’ ($$$).” Yet in reality they are failing the students
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By Jonathan Carone
#546564 There was a real interesting thread about it on Twitter over the weekend. I wish I remember who it was from. His credentials were that he did a lot of research on the area after Trayvon Martin and stumbled upon the corruption between the school board and police departments. He even highlighted how gangs/organized crime were using students to do their dirty work and would wait until after the quotas were hit before they'd commit a crime knowing the student wouldn't get arrested.
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By Purple Haize
#546569 It s a numbers game. People know how to play the system to their advantage. And the people truly in need and the people who truly are concerned are the ones who get screwed
User avatar
By BJWilliams
#546815 Being a consumer in the mental health system, I would have to agree. Im lucky that I have been able to get regular therapy from the city and get my medication worked out as well
User avatar
By Jonathan Carone
#546820
BJWilliams wrote:Being a consumer in the mental health system, I would have to agree. Im lucky that I have been able to get regular therapy from the city and get my medication worked out as well


That makes me happy. Good for you.
User avatar
By Class of 20Something
#546830
Jonathan Carone wrote:
BJWilliams wrote:Being a consumer in the mental health system, I would have to agree. Im lucky that I have been able to get regular therapy from the city and get my medication worked out as well


That makes me happy. Good for you.


When I was in the service, one of the best decisions I made was to talk to a mental health counselor. I think the best part was just getting to open up, have someone listen, and not have it infiltrate any social circles other than I was much easier to be around. I cannot recommend it enough to anyone. If you need to talk to someone, talk to someone. Practically, I told my life story to a stranger and got as much feedback as I wanted out of it.
By thepostman
#546833 I'm so glad you took advantage of the mental health resources available to services members while you were in the service. There is a stigma within the military circles that going to mental health will harm your career and in some instances I can see why people think that.

It speaks volumes when a person can put that to the side and get the care that they need.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#546835
thepostman wrote:I'm so glad you took advantage of the mental health resources available to services members while you were in the service. There is a stigma within the military circles that going to mental health will harm your career and in some instances I can see why people think that.

It speaks volumes when a person can put that to the side and get the care that they need.


I’ve seen this paradigm start to shift, although you are a little closer to it. I’m seeing several former combat vets I know really encouraging those currently in or recently discharged to take advantage of it. Their are a lot of broken vets out there. I’m glad to see things, at least in my circle, seem to change
By thepostman
#546839 Former vets for sure. The stigma still exists in the active duty world. It isn't as bad as it use to be but it still exists.

I attempt to play a small roll in changing that. We shall see.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#546842
thepostman wrote:Former vets for sure. The stigma still exists in the active duty world. It isn't as bad as it use to be but it still exists.

I attempt to play a small roll in changing that. We shall see.


I guess what I’m saying is in seeing vets talking to active duty guys about it. Which is a seismic shift then just 5 or 10 years ago. Let alone 30
By thepostman
#546846 Totally agree. It's great to see but unfortunately the stigma still exists for numerous reasons that probably could fill another multi page thread.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#546850
thepostman wrote:Totally agree. It's great to see but unfortunately the stigma still exists for numerous reasons that probably could fill another multi page thread.


Agreed
User avatar
By Class of 20Something
#546914 The stigma exists because the zero tolerance culture of schools infiltrated the military. Programs like the Personnel Reliability Program and most combat arms career fields will immediately strip you of your weapon temporarily or permanently just for seeking help. The only reason I sought help when I did was because I was already unable to arm for the time being. The stigma isn't going to go away as long as policies like that exist.

I was in the largest single squadron in the Air Force and from your piers, you are useless if you seek help because you aren't able to perform your job. From leadership, you are useless because you throw manning numbers off and can't use over manning for more days off or better schedules. We called it the R.O.D. Squad. (Relieved of Duty) All your screwups that were getting UCMJ'd, anyone that has sought mental health help, and anyone that was waiting or recovering from a medical procedure.

The fastest way for leadership to change the stigma is to trust the mental health professionals to make the decision if someone can still preform their job while receiving care. Ultimately, most that are in want to preform their job, but they also want to be sane too. They know that if they seek help, they will be ostracized bey their piers and leadership and unable to do one of the key parts of recovery, that is to be a productive member of the unit.
By thepostman
#546916 Yeah that is a good summary of it. Obviously certain mental health conditions will immediately warrant unarming someone. The problem comes with how leadership choses to go about helping those seeking help.

Just today I found out an Army guy who occasionally visited our small group took all the money him and his wife had and went AWOL. He struggled with a slew of mental health issues and probably didn't seem the help he needed because the stigma is so bad, especially in the army. I'm not saying he should be completely off the hook but it is a byproduct of a system that makes those who struggle feel like they can't talk about it.

Now this guys wife and their 2 kids are completely screwed. The church is helping them and my wife and I are doing what we can but the Army really won't do much because he went AWOL. These kinds of stories aren't hard to find which makes it even sadder.
User avatar
By Jonathan Carone
#552616 So in two days the Trump administration has used the Bible to defend splitting up families at the border and Trump has said he wanted the American people to look at him like the North Koreans look at their dictator.

Things are going great.
By JK37
#552628 I don’t have a problem with families being split. The law is the law. But don’t thump a book you clearly don’t live by. I’d like to think it’s a bad strategy, but I don’t know if it is.

The “love me” thing was refreshing. He acts like it already, now just calling a spade a spade.
By thepostman
#552629 But you can't use the bible to justify it. Of course the reporter was baiting her and she fell for it.

But seriously When did politicians or reporters become biblical theologians? I don't get the point in the questions posed by the reporter and I am saddened by her answer. Nothing in the world of government or how our media covers it makes any sense to me. The division is crippling us.

**end of rant**
User avatar
By TH Spangler
#552639 Democrats made the laws that split families? And the way democrats are pushing abortion we are going to need a lot of "legal" immigrants to keep our capitalism alive. They do need to come legally though?
User avatar
By cruzan_flame13
#552641
Jonathan Carone wrote:So in two days the Trump administration has used the Bible to defend splitting up families at the border and Trump has said he wanted the American people to look at him like the North Koreans look at their dictator.

Things are going great.


I would like a link to where Trump has actually made that statement. On the topic on the family splitting by the borders, if one is going to look into this situation emotionally then the response is going to be inaccurate. There's more depth to that topic than most even realize and honestly i feel bad for those who are in the crossfire. Going back to those politicians and media actors, they will perform and point out this issue, but none of them will give a hand to help. They receive millions annually, yet none will allow these folks to live in their mansion(s) that they own. The fact that a parent will take a risk to come through a hot desert just to make their child(ren) an anchor child is a abusive. Then you have to consider the cartels using these people so that they can traffick their drugs and arms into the U.S. I will also add that most of these "dreamers" are either criminals or they are innocent and just walking around no place to go with the possibility of being kidnapped(human trafficking is big in the U.S. but is never really talked about..hmmm)or locked up in cages in "detainment centers." Just search immigrants locked in cages and you'll see articles and videos about it. This has been going on for years and now these so call loving politicians and media want to finally bring it up.
User avatar
By Class of 20Something
#552645
Yacht Rock wrote:Yay, let's be more like North Korea...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dkKD-PXxjg


Face meet palm.

Ugh
By thepostman
#552649 His own mouth is a bad source? Trump was right, he could shoot someone and people would still defend him. He has got that (R) next to his name so I guess we are do overlook all of this.
By ballah09
#552650
cruzan_flame13 wrote:
Yacht Rock wrote:Yay, let's be more like North Korea...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dkKD-PXxjg


Really, that’s the source that everyone is talking about? Wow...


? he says it right there.

People really going to defend this and the justifying the use of the Bible of taking kids away from families? amazing
User avatar
By cruzan_flame13
#552652 Ballah you should look into what Israel did with foreigners. Also I didn’t hear him said he wants to be Kim Jung Un. I heard that he like how his general give him the attention in a way of respect. If you understood the mutiny that is occurring in D.C. then you’d understand what he meant by that. However this corruption and destruction of the United States by traitors a.k.a the deep state has been going on decades before Trump even talked about politics. So I see how anyone will wonder why anyone will “defend” Trump’s statement when they have media who is there to split the people’s beliefs and decision and not actually speak on what’s really going on. Is Trump a saint? No. However, he is actually quite brilliant even with his blue collar New Yorker articulation. I’m not a big Trump supporter, but actions speak louder than words and clearly all the attack on him should tell the American people something. The problem is Americans don’t know actual history and they wouldn’t want to hear a lot of facts based on their cognitive dissonance. Well that’s just my two cents on this subject.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#552656
thepostman wrote:His own mouth is a bad source? Trump was right, he could shoot someone and people would still defend him. He has got that (R) next to his name so I guess we are do overlook all of this.


I defend him because I like what he’s doing John McCain has an R by his name. His comments regarding the G7 are not defensible. Paul Ryan has an R by his name and I don’t defend his approach on several issues. It has nothing to do with there being an R by his name
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#552657
Jonathan Carone wrote:So in two days the Trump administration has used the Bible to defend splitting up families at the border and Trump has said he wanted the American people to look at him like the North Koreans look at their dictator.

Things are going great.


The second statement was clearly a joke. If you don’t think it was then you might want to check your humor meter.
As for your first statement I need clarification. Are you disapproving of the Policy or the Biblical reference?
User avatar
By Jonathan Carone
#552658 To say the North Korea thing was only a joke is to ignore all the other examples of Trump demanding loyalty throughout his entire career. He may have said it in a joking manner, but there was truth in that joke.

As for the immigration policy — I don’t like splitting families up and would prefer a different route but I can understand the idea behind it. I cannot under any circumstance agree with using the Bible to justify it.
By lynchburgwildcats
#552660
Jonathan Carone wrote:So in two days the Trump administration has used the Bible to defend splitting up families at the border and Trump has said he wanted the American people to look at him like the North Koreans look at their dictator.

Things are going great.

And don't forget the whole putting the kids in internment tent camps either.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#552661
Jonathan Carone wrote:To say the North Korea thing was only a joke is to ignore all the other examples of Trump demanding loyalty throughout his entire career. He may have said it in a joking manner, but there was truth in that joke.

As for the immigration policy — I don’t like splitting families up and would prefer a different route but I can understand the idea behind it. I cannot under any circumstance agree with using the Bible to justify it.


Again, check your humor meter
I will agree with you on Scripture. I don’t like it used when the Left talks about Welfare etc and I don’t like it when it was used in this case. As for the Policy it starts with the Parents of these children. They seem to escape all the blame. The second thing is that no solution is given only- That’s Horrible That’s not America. No matter what the Policy is, you are going to have a less than ideal situation. And that’s not the US Government fault it’s the fault of those Parents.
By lynchburgwildcats
#552662
cruzan_flame13 wrote:However this corruption and destruction of the United States by traitors a.k.a the deep state has been going on decades before Trump even talked about politics.

Wanna know how I know you're an idiot?
By lynchburgwildcats
#552663
Purple Haize wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote:To say the North Korea thing was only a joke is to ignore all the other examples of Trump demanding loyalty throughout his entire career. He may have said it in a joking manner, but there was truth in that joke.

As for the immigration policy — I don’t like splitting families up and would prefer a different route but I can understand the idea behind it. I cannot under any circumstance agree with using the Bible to justify it.


Again, check your humor meter
I will agree with you on Scripture. I don’t like it used when the Left talks about Welfare etc and I don’t like it when it was used in this case. As for the Policy it starts with the Parents of these children. They seem to escape all the blame. The second thing is that no solution is given only- That’s Horrible That’s not America. No matter what the Policy is, you are going to have a less than ideal situation. And that’s not the US Government fault it’s the fault of those Parents.

No solution is given. People have been proposing for years various different ways to create a path for citizenship for these people instead of locking them up like animals like the current administration is doing now.
User avatar
By cruzan_flame13
#552664
lynchburgwildcats wrote:
cruzan_flame13 wrote:However this corruption and destruction of the United States by traitors a.k.a the deep state has been going on decades before Trump even talked about politics.

Wanna know how I know you're an idiot?


Please inform me with your intelligence. I want to see what your response will be then I will not point out how much you lack knowledge of politics in the U.S. I mean the information is there and books have been written by elites who stated what their plans were for the past century. I bet you’ve never heard of the Tavistock Institute and how it shaped American culture. Yet you’re going to tell me how idiotic I am on a forum smh.
User avatar
By cruzan_flame13
#552665 Lynchburgwildcat, you do know that those immigrants were being caged up since the Obama administration (and even probably before him) right? That picture that the loving caring media has exposed was from 2014 during the Obama administration. I would like you to actually go to one of those sanctuary cities and actually live there. I lived in Chicago and it’s not great and folks who are oblivious to reality most likely live in nice areas that block out the inner/poor areas. You think you’d go in those places? No, you wouldn’t. Yet you’ll spew what you call information out and bash others in which you don’t like what they’ve said. You’re just on one end of the paradigm.
User avatar
By makarov97
#552666 I will never understand the millennial snowflakes and the things that they latch on to.

There isn't any doubt that President Trump was joking in reference to the NK comment. HE SAID AS MUCH later. The pathetic and worthless scum sucking filthy delusional "journalists" jumped all over to paint a headline to "RESIST!" (TM) even though they already knew that President Trump was joking. Then millennial snowflakes jump all over the headline that the scum media painted, just because of their hatred for the President.

When said Millennials get called on the fact that they are REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEing over an obvious joke, they twist themselves into knots trying to say, "but he really means it."

As for the "separating kids from their parents" garbage. Do you believe in national borders or not? It's really simple.

I know that Millennial scum think that we all should live in a kumbaya one-world government under the control of the benevolent dictators at the UN, but national borders exist. When people break the law, bad things happen. The media trash is using kids as a pawn because of their hatred for the President, never mind that their MMMMMM MMMMMM MMMMMM BARACK OBAMA!!!! was also "separating parents from their kids" (and he went so far as to put them in cages.)

The President isn't perfect, but he has been doing a lot of good, and the last time I checked, the economy is roaring along.

The meeting in NK was a good thing, especially if things progress to a nuclear free NK and the removal of our forces from SK (and we quit being policeman for the world.) The "but he doesn't say nice things" crowd disgust me.

Millennial trash would rather someone talk nice to them while sticking a knife in their back and destroying the country, because snowflakes can't stand to hear someone tell it like it is.

Some of the best leaders that I had in the military were gruff, rude, salty and kinda mean, but they got the job done, got respect, and were not afraid to get into the dirt with the rest of us.
By thepostman
#552669
makarov97 wrote:I will never understand the millennial snowflakes and the things that they latch on to.

There isn't any doubt that President Trump was joking in reference to the NK comment. HE SAID AS MUCH later. The pathetic and worthless scum sucking filthy delusional "journalists" jumped all over to paint a headline to "RESIST!" (TM) even though they already knew that President Trump was joking. Then millennial snowflakes jump all over the headline that the scum media painted, just because of their hatred for the President.

When said Millennials get called on the fact that they are REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEing over an obvious joke, they twist themselves into knots trying to say, "but he really means it."

As for the "separating kids from their parents" garbage. Do you believe in national borders or not? It's really simple.

I know that Millennial scum think that we all should live in a kumbaya one-world government under the control of the benevolent dictators at the UN, but national borders exist. When people break the law, bad things happen. The media trash is using kids as a pawn because of their hatred for the President, never mind that their MMMMMM MMMMMM MMMMMM BARACK OBAMA!!!! was also "separating parents from their kids" (and he went so far as to put them in cages.)

The President isn't perfect, but he has been doing a lot of good, and the last time I checked, the economy is roaring along.

The meeting in NK was a good thing, especially if things progress to a nuclear free NK and the removal of our forces from SK (and we quit being policeman for the world.) The "but he doesn't say nice things" crowd disgust me.

Millennial trash would rather someone talk nice to them while sticking a knife in their back and destroying the country, because snowflakes can't stand to hear someone tell it like it is.

Some of the best leaders that I had in the military were gruff, rude, salty and kinda mean, but they got the job done, got respect, and were not afraid to get into the dirt with the rest of us.



:roll:
User avatar
By cruzan_flame13
#552670
makarov97 wrote:I will never understand the millennial snowflakes and the things that they latch on to.

There isn't any doubt that President Trump was joking in reference to the NK comment. HE SAID AS MUCH later. The pathetic and worthless scum sucking filthy delusional "journalists" jumped all over to paint a headline to "RESIST!" (TM) even though they already knew that President Trump was joking. Then millennial snowflakes jump all over the headline that the scum media painted, just because of their hatred for the President.

When said Millennials get called on the fact that they are REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEing over an obvious joke, they twist themselves into knots trying to say, "but he really means it."

As for the "separating kids from their parents" garbage. Do you believe in national borders or not? It's really simple.

I know that Millennial scum think that we all should live in a kumbaya one-world government under the control of the benevolent dictators at the UN, but national borders exist. When people break the law, bad things happen. The media trash is using kids as a pawn because of their hatred for the President, never mind that their MMMMMM MMMMMM MMMMMM BARACK OBAMA!!!! was also "separating parents from their kids" (and he went so far as to put them in cages.)

The President isn't perfect, but he has been doing a lot of good, and the last time I checked, the economy is roaring along.

The meeting in NK was a good thing, especially if things progress to a nuclear free NK and the removal of our forces from SK (and we quit being policeman for the world.) The "but he doesn't say nice things" crowd disgust me.

Millennial trash would rather someone talk nice to them while sticking a knife in their back and destroying the country, because snowflakes can't stand to hear someone tell it like it is.

Some of the best leaders that I had in the military were gruff, rude, salty and kinda mean, but they got the job done, got respect, and were not afraid to get into the dirt with the rest of us.



As I stated before with the kids in the cage, I agree and I dont see any Obama Thread that discuss this(just pointing that out). I don’t see the media bringing up American children who are abducted and sold all throughout the U.S. but these people are virtue signaling in an attempt to get a Hegelian Dialect response from the uninformed American people. Lynchburgwildcat and others here, I don’t hate you and I try not to name call because that is childish. Yet to attack the president because you don’t like him while we have politicians like the Clintons, the Podestas, the Bushes, Joe Biden and countless politicians still roaming the streets with so much crime and darkness in their backgrounds is beyond Stockholm syndrome. I’m from the islands where one of the islands in association is a private island where politicians, business elites and even royals come there and do some dark things. This is going on right now in the U.S. and Americans are focus on propaganda news and shows. They don’t call it t.v. programming for no reason.
By thepostman
#552671 One can be critical of Trump and still not be a huge fan of Obama. A lot of his policies were fools gold.

The immigration issue has been going in most of my life if not longer. There isn't any one person or administration or political party to blame. There is plenty of blame to go around. But I don't believe trump and his administration are helping anything.

I don't think name calling an entire generation is exactly the most productive thing either. But such is life.

This is why I couldn't believe Jon decided to open this can of worms on this page. Nothing good ever comes from this discussion in here. Which is a shame because with the differing views on this page we could really have a good discussion.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#552672
thepostman wrote:One can be critical of Trump and still not be a huge fan of Obama. A lot of his policies were fools gold.

The immigration issue has been going in most of my life if not longer. There isn't any one person or administration or political party to blame. There is plenty of blame to go around. But I don't believe trump and his administration are helping anything.

I don't think name calling an entire generation is exactly the most productive thing either. But such is life.

This is why I couldn't believe Jon decided to open this can of worms on this page. Nothing good ever comes from this discussion in here. Which is a shame because with the differing views on this page we could really have a good discussion.


That’s why I asked for clarification on his issue There were 2 separate issues on the Immigration front