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By Purple Haize
#546850
thepostman wrote:Totally agree. It's great to see but unfortunately the stigma still exists for numerous reasons that probably could fill another multi page thread.


Agreed
User avatar
By Class of 20Something
#546914 The stigma exists because the zero tolerance culture of schools infiltrated the military. Programs like the Personnel Reliability Program and most combat arms career fields will immediately strip you of your weapon temporarily or permanently just for seeking help. The only reason I sought help when I did was because I was already unable to arm for the time being. The stigma isn't going to go away as long as policies like that exist.

I was in the largest single squadron in the Air Force and from your piers, you are useless if you seek help because you aren't able to perform your job. From leadership, you are useless because you throw manning numbers off and can't use over manning for more days off or better schedules. We called it the R.O.D. Squad. (Relieved of Duty) All your screwups that were getting UCMJ'd, anyone that has sought mental health help, and anyone that was waiting or recovering from a medical procedure.

The fastest way for leadership to change the stigma is to trust the mental health professionals to make the decision if someone can still preform their job while receiving care. Ultimately, most that are in want to preform their job, but they also want to be sane too. They know that if they seek help, they will be ostracized bey their piers and leadership and unable to do one of the key parts of recovery, that is to be a productive member of the unit.
By thepostman
#546916 Yeah that is a good summary of it. Obviously certain mental health conditions will immediately warrant unarming someone. The problem comes with how leadership choses to go about helping those seeking help.

Just today I found out an Army guy who occasionally visited our small group took all the money him and his wife had and went AWOL. He struggled with a slew of mental health issues and probably didn't seem the help he needed because the stigma is so bad, especially in the army. I'm not saying he should be completely off the hook but it is a byproduct of a system that makes those who struggle feel like they can't talk about it.

Now this guys wife and their 2 kids are completely screwed. The church is helping them and my wife and I are doing what we can but the Army really won't do much because he went AWOL. These kinds of stories aren't hard to find which makes it even sadder.
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By Jonathan Carone
#552616 So in two days the Trump administration has used the Bible to defend splitting up families at the border and Trump has said he wanted the American people to look at him like the North Koreans look at their dictator.

Things are going great.
By JK37
#552628 I don’t have a problem with families being split. The law is the law. But don’t thump a book you clearly don’t live by. I’d like to think it’s a bad strategy, but I don’t know if it is.

The “love me” thing was refreshing. He acts like it already, now just calling a spade a spade.
By thepostman
#552629 But you can't use the bible to justify it. Of course the reporter was baiting her and she fell for it.

But seriously When did politicians or reporters become biblical theologians? I don't get the point in the questions posed by the reporter and I am saddened by her answer. Nothing in the world of government or how our media covers it makes any sense to me. The division is crippling us.

**end of rant**
User avatar
By TH Spangler
#552639 Democrats made the laws that split families? And the way democrats are pushing abortion we are going to need a lot of "legal" immigrants to keep our capitalism alive. They do need to come legally though?
User avatar
By cruzan_flame13
#552641
Jonathan Carone wrote:So in two days the Trump administration has used the Bible to defend splitting up families at the border and Trump has said he wanted the American people to look at him like the North Koreans look at their dictator.

Things are going great.


I would like a link to where Trump has actually made that statement. On the topic on the family splitting by the borders, if one is going to look into this situation emotionally then the response is going to be inaccurate. There's more depth to that topic than most even realize and honestly i feel bad for those who are in the crossfire. Going back to those politicians and media actors, they will perform and point out this issue, but none of them will give a hand to help. They receive millions annually, yet none will allow these folks to live in their mansion(s) that they own. The fact that a parent will take a risk to come through a hot desert just to make their child(ren) an anchor child is a abusive. Then you have to consider the cartels using these people so that they can traffick their drugs and arms into the U.S. I will also add that most of these "dreamers" are either criminals or they are innocent and just walking around no place to go with the possibility of being kidnapped(human trafficking is big in the U.S. but is never really talked about..hmmm)or locked up in cages in "detainment centers." Just search immigrants locked in cages and you'll see articles and videos about it. This has been going on for years and now these so call loving politicians and media want to finally bring it up.
User avatar
By Class of 20Something
#552645
Yacht Rock wrote:Yay, let's be more like North Korea...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dkKD-PXxjg


Face meet palm.

Ugh
By thepostman
#552649 His own mouth is a bad source? Trump was right, he could shoot someone and people would still defend him. He has got that (R) next to his name so I guess we are do overlook all of this.
By ballah09
#552650
cruzan_flame13 wrote:
Yacht Rock wrote:Yay, let's be more like North Korea...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dkKD-PXxjg


Really, that’s the source that everyone is talking about? Wow...


? he says it right there.

People really going to defend this and the justifying the use of the Bible of taking kids away from families? amazing
User avatar
By cruzan_flame13
#552652 Ballah you should look into what Israel did with foreigners. Also I didn’t hear him said he wants to be Kim Jung Un. I heard that he like how his general give him the attention in a way of respect. If you understood the mutiny that is occurring in D.C. then you’d understand what he meant by that. However this corruption and destruction of the United States by traitors a.k.a the deep state has been going on decades before Trump even talked about politics. So I see how anyone will wonder why anyone will “defend” Trump’s statement when they have media who is there to split the people’s beliefs and decision and not actually speak on what’s really going on. Is Trump a saint? No. However, he is actually quite brilliant even with his blue collar New Yorker articulation. I’m not a big Trump supporter, but actions speak louder than words and clearly all the attack on him should tell the American people something. The problem is Americans don’t know actual history and they wouldn’t want to hear a lot of facts based on their cognitive dissonance. Well that’s just my two cents on this subject.
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By Purple Haize
#552656
thepostman wrote:His own mouth is a bad source? Trump was right, he could shoot someone and people would still defend him. He has got that (R) next to his name so I guess we are do overlook all of this.


I defend him because I like what he’s doing John McCain has an R by his name. His comments regarding the G7 are not defensible. Paul Ryan has an R by his name and I don’t defend his approach on several issues. It has nothing to do with there being an R by his name
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By Purple Haize
#552657
Jonathan Carone wrote:So in two days the Trump administration has used the Bible to defend splitting up families at the border and Trump has said he wanted the American people to look at him like the North Koreans look at their dictator.

Things are going great.


The second statement was clearly a joke. If you don’t think it was then you might want to check your humor meter.
As for your first statement I need clarification. Are you disapproving of the Policy or the Biblical reference?
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By Jonathan Carone
#552658 To say the North Korea thing was only a joke is to ignore all the other examples of Trump demanding loyalty throughout his entire career. He may have said it in a joking manner, but there was truth in that joke.

As for the immigration policy — I don’t like splitting families up and would prefer a different route but I can understand the idea behind it. I cannot under any circumstance agree with using the Bible to justify it.
By lynchburgwildcats
#552660
Jonathan Carone wrote:So in two days the Trump administration has used the Bible to defend splitting up families at the border and Trump has said he wanted the American people to look at him like the North Koreans look at their dictator.

Things are going great.

And don't forget the whole putting the kids in internment tent camps either.
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By Purple Haize
#552661
Jonathan Carone wrote:To say the North Korea thing was only a joke is to ignore all the other examples of Trump demanding loyalty throughout his entire career. He may have said it in a joking manner, but there was truth in that joke.

As for the immigration policy — I don’t like splitting families up and would prefer a different route but I can understand the idea behind it. I cannot under any circumstance agree with using the Bible to justify it.


Again, check your humor meter
I will agree with you on Scripture. I don’t like it used when the Left talks about Welfare etc and I don’t like it when it was used in this case. As for the Policy it starts with the Parents of these children. They seem to escape all the blame. The second thing is that no solution is given only- That’s Horrible That’s not America. No matter what the Policy is, you are going to have a less than ideal situation. And that’s not the US Government fault it’s the fault of those Parents.
By lynchburgwildcats
#552662
cruzan_flame13 wrote:However this corruption and destruction of the United States by traitors a.k.a the deep state has been going on decades before Trump even talked about politics.

Wanna know how I know you're an idiot?
By lynchburgwildcats
#552663
Purple Haize wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote:To say the North Korea thing was only a joke is to ignore all the other examples of Trump demanding loyalty throughout his entire career. He may have said it in a joking manner, but there was truth in that joke.

As for the immigration policy — I don’t like splitting families up and would prefer a different route but I can understand the idea behind it. I cannot under any circumstance agree with using the Bible to justify it.


Again, check your humor meter
I will agree with you on Scripture. I don’t like it used when the Left talks about Welfare etc and I don’t like it when it was used in this case. As for the Policy it starts with the Parents of these children. They seem to escape all the blame. The second thing is that no solution is given only- That’s Horrible That’s not America. No matter what the Policy is, you are going to have a less than ideal situation. And that’s not the US Government fault it’s the fault of those Parents.

No solution is given. People have been proposing for years various different ways to create a path for citizenship for these people instead of locking them up like animals like the current administration is doing now.
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By cruzan_flame13
#552664
lynchburgwildcats wrote:
cruzan_flame13 wrote:However this corruption and destruction of the United States by traitors a.k.a the deep state has been going on decades before Trump even talked about politics.

Wanna know how I know you're an idiot?


Please inform me with your intelligence. I want to see what your response will be then I will not point out how much you lack knowledge of politics in the U.S. I mean the information is there and books have been written by elites who stated what their plans were for the past century. I bet you’ve never heard of the Tavistock Institute and how it shaped American culture. Yet you’re going to tell me how idiotic I am on a forum smh.
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By cruzan_flame13
#552665 Lynchburgwildcat, you do know that those immigrants were being caged up since the Obama administration (and even probably before him) right? That picture that the loving caring media has exposed was from 2014 during the Obama administration. I would like you to actually go to one of those sanctuary cities and actually live there. I lived in Chicago and it’s not great and folks who are oblivious to reality most likely live in nice areas that block out the inner/poor areas. You think you’d go in those places? No, you wouldn’t. Yet you’ll spew what you call information out and bash others in which you don’t like what they’ve said. You’re just on one end of the paradigm.
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By makarov97
#552666 I will never understand the millennial snowflakes and the things that they latch on to.

There isn't any doubt that President Trump was joking in reference to the NK comment. HE SAID AS MUCH later. The pathetic and worthless scum sucking filthy delusional "journalists" jumped all over to paint a headline to "RESIST!" (TM) even though they already knew that President Trump was joking. Then millennial snowflakes jump all over the headline that the scum media painted, just because of their hatred for the President.

When said Millennials get called on the fact that they are REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEing over an obvious joke, they twist themselves into knots trying to say, "but he really means it."

As for the "separating kids from their parents" garbage. Do you believe in national borders or not? It's really simple.

I know that Millennial scum think that we all should live in a kumbaya one-world government under the control of the benevolent dictators at the UN, but national borders exist. When people break the law, bad things happen. The media trash is using kids as a pawn because of their hatred for the President, never mind that their MMMMMM MMMMMM MMMMMM BARACK OBAMA!!!! was also "separating parents from their kids" (and he went so far as to put them in cages.)

The President isn't perfect, but he has been doing a lot of good, and the last time I checked, the economy is roaring along.

The meeting in NK was a good thing, especially if things progress to a nuclear free NK and the removal of our forces from SK (and we quit being policeman for the world.) The "but he doesn't say nice things" crowd disgust me.

Millennial trash would rather someone talk nice to them while sticking a knife in their back and destroying the country, because snowflakes can't stand to hear someone tell it like it is.

Some of the best leaders that I had in the military were gruff, rude, salty and kinda mean, but they got the job done, got respect, and were not afraid to get into the dirt with the rest of us.
By thepostman
#552669
makarov97 wrote:I will never understand the millennial snowflakes and the things that they latch on to.

There isn't any doubt that President Trump was joking in reference to the NK comment. HE SAID AS MUCH later. The pathetic and worthless scum sucking filthy delusional "journalists" jumped all over to paint a headline to "RESIST!" (TM) even though they already knew that President Trump was joking. Then millennial snowflakes jump all over the headline that the scum media painted, just because of their hatred for the President.

When said Millennials get called on the fact that they are REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEing over an obvious joke, they twist themselves into knots trying to say, "but he really means it."

As for the "separating kids from their parents" garbage. Do you believe in national borders or not? It's really simple.

I know that Millennial scum think that we all should live in a kumbaya one-world government under the control of the benevolent dictators at the UN, but national borders exist. When people break the law, bad things happen. The media trash is using kids as a pawn because of their hatred for the President, never mind that their MMMMMM MMMMMM MMMMMM BARACK OBAMA!!!! was also "separating parents from their kids" (and he went so far as to put them in cages.)

The President isn't perfect, but he has been doing a lot of good, and the last time I checked, the economy is roaring along.

The meeting in NK was a good thing, especially if things progress to a nuclear free NK and the removal of our forces from SK (and we quit being policeman for the world.) The "but he doesn't say nice things" crowd disgust me.

Millennial trash would rather someone talk nice to them while sticking a knife in their back and destroying the country, because snowflakes can't stand to hear someone tell it like it is.

Some of the best leaders that I had in the military were gruff, rude, salty and kinda mean, but they got the job done, got respect, and were not afraid to get into the dirt with the rest of us.



:roll:
User avatar
By cruzan_flame13
#552670
makarov97 wrote:I will never understand the millennial snowflakes and the things that they latch on to.

There isn't any doubt that President Trump was joking in reference to the NK comment. HE SAID AS MUCH later. The pathetic and worthless scum sucking filthy delusional "journalists" jumped all over to paint a headline to "RESIST!" (TM) even though they already knew that President Trump was joking. Then millennial snowflakes jump all over the headline that the scum media painted, just because of their hatred for the President.

When said Millennials get called on the fact that they are REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEing over an obvious joke, they twist themselves into knots trying to say, "but he really means it."

As for the "separating kids from their parents" garbage. Do you believe in national borders or not? It's really simple.

I know that Millennial scum think that we all should live in a kumbaya one-world government under the control of the benevolent dictators at the UN, but national borders exist. When people break the law, bad things happen. The media trash is using kids as a pawn because of their hatred for the President, never mind that their MMMMMM MMMMMM MMMMMM BARACK OBAMA!!!! was also "separating parents from their kids" (and he went so far as to put them in cages.)

The President isn't perfect, but he has been doing a lot of good, and the last time I checked, the economy is roaring along.

The meeting in NK was a good thing, especially if things progress to a nuclear free NK and the removal of our forces from SK (and we quit being policeman for the world.) The "but he doesn't say nice things" crowd disgust me.

Millennial trash would rather someone talk nice to them while sticking a knife in their back and destroying the country, because snowflakes can't stand to hear someone tell it like it is.

Some of the best leaders that I had in the military were gruff, rude, salty and kinda mean, but they got the job done, got respect, and were not afraid to get into the dirt with the rest of us.



As I stated before with the kids in the cage, I agree and I dont see any Obama Thread that discuss this(just pointing that out). I don’t see the media bringing up American children who are abducted and sold all throughout the U.S. but these people are virtue signaling in an attempt to get a Hegelian Dialect response from the uninformed American people. Lynchburgwildcat and others here, I don’t hate you and I try not to name call because that is childish. Yet to attack the president because you don’t like him while we have politicians like the Clintons, the Podestas, the Bushes, Joe Biden and countless politicians still roaming the streets with so much crime and darkness in their backgrounds is beyond Stockholm syndrome. I’m from the islands where one of the islands in association is a private island where politicians, business elites and even royals come there and do some dark things. This is going on right now in the U.S. and Americans are focus on propaganda news and shows. They don’t call it t.v. programming for no reason.
By thepostman
#552671 One can be critical of Trump and still not be a huge fan of Obama. A lot of his policies were fools gold.

The immigration issue has been going in most of my life if not longer. There isn't any one person or administration or political party to blame. There is plenty of blame to go around. But I don't believe trump and his administration are helping anything.

I don't think name calling an entire generation is exactly the most productive thing either. But such is life.

This is why I couldn't believe Jon decided to open this can of worms on this page. Nothing good ever comes from this discussion in here. Which is a shame because with the differing views on this page we could really have a good discussion.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#552672
thepostman wrote:One can be critical of Trump and still not be a huge fan of Obama. A lot of his policies were fools gold.

The immigration issue has been going in most of my life if not longer. There isn't any one person or administration or political party to blame. There is plenty of blame to go around. But I don't believe trump and his administration are helping anything.

I don't think name calling an entire generation is exactly the most productive thing either. But such is life.

This is why I couldn't believe Jon decided to open this can of worms on this page. Nothing good ever comes from this discussion in here. Which is a shame because with the differing views on this page we could really have a good discussion.


That’s why I asked for clarification on his issue There were 2 separate issues on the Immigration front
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#552674
thepostman wrote:You're pretty civil compared to makarov97.

:)


Because it’s a good topic to debate. I agree that the NoKo comment dust up is stupid. It’s Trumps humor style.
But the Immigration debate can be had.
By JK37
#552675
thepostman wrote:One can be critical of Trump and still not be a huge fan of Obama. A lot of his policies were fools gold.

The immigration issue has been going in most of my life if not longer. There isn't any one person or administration or political party to blame. There is plenty of blame to go around. But I don't believe trump and his administration are helping anything.

I don't think name calling an entire generation is exactly the most productive thing either. But such is life.

This is why I couldn't believe Jon decided to open this can of worms on this page. Nothing good ever comes from this discussion in here. Which is a shame because with the differing views on this page we could really have a good discussion.


Can’t you see how you’re proving Makarov’s point? The closest thing to a substantive direct response to everything he said is to establish (twice!) that you don’t appreciate Millenials beings called names. I don’t know who you are or if you’re a Millenial or not, but in general our country has to engage more substantively to these debates.

Just as some blindly follow the (R), Just as many if not more blindly bash the (R).

A nation that is polarized and minority turmoil worsening coming out of Obama administration. First black President and 17 minority cabinet members over the course of his 8 years. I’d like to ask so many African Americans who voted for him in 2008 and again in 2012 just because he is black, “Are things better or worse for you now? You had your guy for 8 years, what happened?!” And of course the excuses will fly. The media gives him a pass because he was nice, even though he accomplished about as much as Carter and history will ultimately judge him just as irrelevant.

Economy roaring along, unemployment nosediving, DPRK meeting successful when Obama gave up. But everything gets blasted by MSM because they don’t like the guy in the oval? Truth be told, he TERRIFIES them, and he’s rolling toward a second term. And given the alternative, I’m okay with that.

Speaking of alternatives, how come we’re not hearing whose going to run against him in 2020?!
User avatar
By TH Spangler
#552686
JK37 wrote:Speaking of alternatives, how come we’re not hearing who's going to run against him in 2020?!


No one likes volunteering to lose
By thepostman
#552690
JK37 wrote:
thepostman wrote:One can be critical of Trump and still not be a huge fan of Obama. A lot of his policies were fools gold.

The immigration issue has been going in most of my life if not longer. There isn't any one person or administration or political party to blame. There is plenty of blame to go around. But I don't believe trump and his administration are helping anything.

I don't think name calling an entire generation is exactly the most productive thing either. But such is life.

This is why I couldn't believe Jon decided to open this can of worms on this page. Nothing good ever comes from this discussion in here. Which is a shame because with the differing views on this page we could really have a good discussion.


Can’t you see how you’re proving Makarov’s point? The closest thing to a substantive direct response to everything he said is to establish (twice!) that you don’t appreciate Millenials beings called names. I don’t know who you are or if you’re a Millenial or not, but in general our country has to engage more substantively to these debates.

Just as some blindly follow the (R), Just as many if not more blindly bash the (R).

A nation that is polarized and minority turmoil worsening coming out of Obama administration. First black President and 17 minority cabinet members over the course of his 8 years. I’d like to ask so many African Americans who voted for him in 2008 and again in 2012 just because he is black, “Are things better or worse for you now? You had your guy for 8 years, what happened?!” And of course the excuses will fly. The media gives him a pass because he was nice, even though he accomplished about as much as Carter and history will ultimately judge him just as irrelevant.

Economy roaring along, unemployment nosediving, DPRK meeting successful when Obama gave up. But everything gets blasted by MSM because they don’t like the guy in the oval? Truth be told, he TERRIFIES them, and he’s rolling toward a second term. And given the alternative, I’m okay with that.

Speaking of alternatives, how come we’re not hearing whose going to run against him in 2020?!



Here is the thing I am way more conservative politically than I think most on this board even realizes. I am very happy with some of the things trump has done. My problem with him has always been how he uses christianity for votes (which is a very politician thing to do and I have always hated it) and the way he completely alienates the other side. Now I'm not naive enough to believe the Democrats would go out of their way to help a Republican president but you don't have to take the low road to get your point across. Of course that is who his supporters voted for and I don't expect that to change but I don't have to like it

I don't think makarov97 is at all understanding of the millennial generation and how different they all are. It's a large generation and to lump them into one stereotype is lazy and not at all beneficial to actual dialogue.

As far as immigration law goes, like I said it has been an issue for so long. Criminals do take advantage of our lax enforcement and that does need to change. But ripping kids from their mothers only has a ripple effect that won't be seen until 10 or 20 years from now. Kind of like ISIS. These are all things that must be considered. You can't make decisions that are so short sited. Those are things I have been taught serving in the military. Of course politics often gets in the way and the right now results culture dictates that results need to be seen right away.

I also don't claim to be smart enough to figure this stuff out but I am getting sick of my conservativism getting questioned when we have a Republican lead Congress and a Republican president who just pushed through a massive budget that spits in the face of all things I thought conservatives valued. Clearly I'm wrong on that.
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By Jonathan Carone
#552697 One of the disconnects I don’t understand is between Christians and church leaders. Most major denominations and many church leaders (even vocal Trump supporters) have spoken out against the policy of splitting families. Yet many (most?) Trump supporting Christians still follow him and support the policy.
By Yacht Rock
#552698
Jonathan Carone wrote:One of the disconnects I don’t understand is between Christians and church leaders. Most major denominations and many church leaders (even vocal Trump supporters) have spoken out against the policy of splitting families. Yet many (most?) Trump supporting Christians still follow him and support the policy.


Somewhere we’ve reached a point where people on both sides of the aisle put their faith in a box instead of using it as a filter through which we view the issues that come up.

My understanding is that the whole point of having a Christian worldview was to apply that to the issues we see.

As Kermit the Frog would say, “But that’s none of my business.”
User avatar
By cruzan_flame13
#552703
Jonathan Carone wrote:One of the disconnects I don’t understand is between Christians and church leaders. Most major denominations and many church leaders (even vocal Trump supporters) have spoken out against the policy of splitting families. Yet many (most?) Trump supporting Christians still follow him and support the policy.


Trump didn’t ask these illegals to come to the north. Then there are over exaggerated accounts with these claims of illegals seeking asylum. You see the media and those in politics know that they can get people emotionally when it comes to children. What about the parents allowing their children to migrate knowing that they may possibly die(which many do) on the journey. Where’s the uproar on that. Let’s look into facts first before we pull the “Christian card.” If you don’t know the facts and just watching the “CNN/ Fox News analyst” who are just actors reading their script or the controlled newspaper/electronic articles that love promoting false narratives, then I can see why folks can get emotional about the topic. Immigration will always be an issue especially since it has become very emotional. Also Christians today will get emotional without looking into issue with depth with no knowledge of what’s really going on. I’m still learning for the topic and I see the risk of allowing people in. Most are not as innocent as the media will say they are. From the words of locals living near the border, most who cross here are in criminal groups, or from countries not even in the Western Hemisphere. So one can get all emotional when they create a sobbing image in the stories and pictures to go with it (which are usually years old, but they make it seem like it is recent). Yes as believers we should love one another and help those in need, but that doesn’t mean that we should be foolish as well. One cannot save everyone especially when the circumstances are very broad. What I mean by that is that these immigrants are being told to head north with a false promise and countries (like Mexico) are opening their border to allow these people to come here. Are government, especially under the Obama administration, has allowed these people to come in with no documentation. So should we just allow this because we are Christians? Again I’ll say we need to know the facts and not make choices based on how we feel. This shouldn’t be about politics but common sense. This is definitely a divide and conquer or order out of chaos (Ordo Ab Chao) moment in history that we’re experiencing.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#552706
Jonathan Carone wrote:One of the disconnects I don’t understand is between Christians and church leaders. Most major denominations and many church leaders (even vocal Trump supporters) have spoken out against the policy of splitting families. Yet many (most?) Trump supporting Christians still follow him and support the policy.


It’s easy to complain when you don’t have to offer an alternative.

I support building ‘The Wall’ and sending the entire Family back. But that’s second part is t really logistically feasible. So this is the best bad solution at the moment.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#552711 Just as a point of reference. I know some will poo poo the source but I like it because it provides links to ‘opposing’ views.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.breitbar ... rents/amp/
By JK37
#552712 The “ripping children from their parents’ arms” line holds no weight with me. The parents approach the border knowing full well that what they’re doing is illegal. They know the risk to their kids when they set out on the trek, and they do it anyway. What the US is doing is actually the humane thing, because to “send the whole family back” is probably a death sentence to the children. So the US offers asylum to these helpless children born to ignorant parents. And the parents are cool with it! Why no outcry about these parents?

The US isn’t ripping children from parents; parents are giving up their kids at an alarming rate. And the US is at least putting them in group homes rather than letting them die.
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By Jonathan Carone
#552713 I can’t get behind the “the parents know what they’re doing! It’s their fault!” line of thinking. While it’s true that they know what they’re doing, many are also weighing staying where they are vs risking everything to come here. They are trying to better their families and give their kids a chance because they didn’t get lucky enough to be born in a country safe enough to stay in.

I understand the reasoning that you have to punish people who break the law. As a Christian, I know there are hundreds of verses in the Bible talking about how to treat refugees, those seeking asylum, and the least of these. As an American, my hope would be that a country built on the foundations we were built upon with the resources (financial and intellectual) we have would be able to come up with a better solution than what we are doing now. The fact we’ve been doing things this way for decades is only more damning for the political class of our country.
By JK37
#552715 “Safe”? I disagree. Many children die on this journey. That’s safe? Many fall into a world of human trafficking. Safe?

I don’t mind them trying to better themselves. Lucky? Luck has nothing to do with it.

What sickens me is the media and politicians playing with the public’s mind. These children aren’t “ripped” from the parents’ hands against their will.
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By Jonathan Carone
#552716 I never implied the journey was safe. It’s anythjng but safe. The hope of life in America is was drives these people to risk everything to come here. They determine that risk is worth the chance to live in America because life where they lived was so bad.

And if you don’t think each one of us is lucky for being born in America then I don’t know what to say. None of us did anything of our own merit to earn being born here.
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By Jonathan Carone
#552718 Also - you’re making the argument against the rhetoric from the media. I’m not talking about their words. My argument has been against splitting families up in general — something that has been happening for more than a decade under both political parties.
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By Purple Haize
#552720
Jonathan Carone wrote:I can’t get behind the “the parents know what they’re doing! It’s their fault!” line of thinking. While it’s true that they know what they’re doing, many are also weighing staying where they are vs risking everything to come here. They are trying to better their families and give their kids a chance because they didn’t get lucky enough to be born in a country safe enough to stay in.

I understand the reasoning that you have to punish people who break the law. As a Christian, I know there are hundreds of verses in the Bible talking about how to treat refugees, those seeking asylum, and the least of these. As an American, my hope would be that a country built on the foundations we were built upon with the resources (financial and intellectual) we have would be able to come up with a better solution than what we are doing now. The fact we’ve been doing things this way for decades is only more damning for the political class of our country.


That’s a bunch of assumptions that have proven inaccurate. They absolutely know what they are doing and you even said so in your second sentence. They are weighing staying in their own country or breaking US Law to come here. They know the reward if they succeed and the price if they fail. Why come to the Us? Several Central Americans have to pass through several other Countries to get to our border. In so doing they lose any claim of asylum. The US treats these minors, unaccompanied or otherwise, better than they have been treated in their lives. I’m with the Law on this one. If we are not sending the whole family back we are doing by far the most humane thing possible and more than ANY of the Countries they traverse did.
My default here is not to blame America or play the Bible card