[jbock13]

But what Republicans did do, is to set up the possibility that when the other party took over, that government could be used for political ends.

But then again, most Republicans are absolutely clueless when it comes to Democrat tactics. They think this is all still the good-ol-boys club where everybody has dinner together. That's what the Boehners, McConnells, McDonnells, McCains and McCarthy's represent.

(side note: that's a lot of mc's).

[flamehunter]

This has devolved quickly.

I think there are a few reasons for the shift in feelings toward snooping. First, I agree with Haize in that I think a lot feel differently about snooping on Americans versus snooping on foreigners. I also think that, whereas in the last administration, the "enemy" was Islamic terrorists whereas this administration has referred to conservatives as "the enemy." That kind of rhetoric I think causes conservatives to give more pause to what this type of information is used for and the intentions behind them. Especially after seeing what the IRS has done, I think it is reasonable for conservatives to change their mind.

That's just the road lag talking. I like the rest of your post, especially on defining who The Enemy is.

I think you are right on. As for the difference between the administrations, the prior one was more about doing what they thought best for the country (but not completely), while the current one is all about what is best for themselves politically.

[Purple Haize]

I would go further saying that the past Administration felt that what was good for the Country was good for them. This administration feels that what is good for them is good for them is good for the Country

[phoenix]

What surprises me is this guy who doesn't seem qualified to work at a Dairy Queen would somehow be given this incredible untethered access.?

This exactly.

[thepostman]

I won't and really shouldn't say a whole lot, but there is no comparison to what this guy has done and what Manning did...none whatsoever.

[Purple Haize]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... alone.html

Lets not forget the other victim here.

"Before her boyfriend’s big reveal, Mills described her blog as detailing “my adventures as a world-traveling, pole-dancing superhero.”

[El Scorcho]

Snowden has now been charged with espionage under Obama's most favorite law to prosecute. He's prosecuted twice as many people with espionage as all previous administrations combined. Transparency, y'all.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... CMP=twt_gu

If the U.S. can extradite, Snowden will likely face life in prison, though the charge does come with the potential of the death penalty.

[jbock13]

Snowden is an American hero. Ask yourself why both Republicans and Democrats want his head. What are they so afraid of? They're afraid of freedom. You see, they both love power, the ability to control and monitor our lives.

[Purple Haize]

Snowden is an American hero. Ask yourself why both Republicans and Democrats want his head. What are they so afraid of? They're afraid of freedom. You see, they both love power, the ability to control and monitor our lives.

My only concern with Snowden is that some of his information will prove false, thus discrediting a whole bunch.
Watching Man of Steel yesterday had a funny moment. There is a section where they are trying to find this 'alien' aka Superman. Someone near me said Ask the NSA, I'm sure they have his phone number! Then at the end he trashes a drone they were using to try and find his hideout.the same guy says' he's going to get audited now for sure!

[LUconn]

spoiler alert jerk!

[Purple Haize]

spoiler alert jerk!

The Man of Steel is also not from Earth!

Put that in y our spoiler alert pipe and smoke it!

[LUconn]

I'm not swayed one way or the other on this guy yet. He could be an american hero. He could be a traitor. I guess it depends on where he ends up, what information he has and who it winds up going to. If he defects to China or the Soviets and he has detrimental information (not just tattletale info), obviously that's something that's not good. On the other hand, I still haven't heard why this guy who otherwise seems like a loser, got this job and has some info the govt seems to be afraid of. It seems suspicious. And really what info has he leaked? That the programs we assumed exist, exist? And no proof to back it up other than the oppositions reaction.

The only thing I know that I'm happy with is the fact he's mentioned that we have some kind of cyber warfare operations working against China. Those bamas are constantly getting their hands caught in our cookie jar with seemingly no recourse. It's nice to know somebody realizes we need to have an offense in this area of warfare.

[El Scorcho]

On the other hand, I still haven't heard why this guy who otherwise seems like a loser...

I'm curious as to why you think this way about him. I think there was some effort to paint him that way early on, but I haven't seen any real evidence to make me believe something is wrong with him. If it's because of him not completing high school, his dad addressed that in an interview with a reporter from Fox News.

"Every place you read is 'high school dropout, high school dropout, high school dropout' ... The fact is, is that Ed had an illness at the beginning of his sophomore year when his mother and I were going through a divorce ... they believed that it was mono. I believe it was diagnosed as mono, but he missed approximately four or five months of school. So, he was gonna fall behind. And he asked if he could try to test into a program at the local community college ... And, you know, there was some disagreement on whether he should do that. The bottom line is he did, and he completed his high school equivalency in advance of when he would have graduated from high school, and then continued taking college courses."

(Link: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/snowden%E2%8 ... n-the-run/)

I think using the term "highschool dropout" certainly put forward the notion that he was some kind of a loser, but I've watched his interviews. He's articulate and intelligent. He was a Systems Administrator at the NSA. To me, it just feel a bit like an effort to smear the guy in order to prevent people from sympathizing with his cause.

I'd genuinely love to hear what gives you that impression, though. I'm certainly not challenging the assertion. I'm just curious.

I think what bolsters his case most for me is to look at what Snowden stands to gain from the situation. I watched his initial interview with Greenwald and read through the live Q&A he did with The Guardian website. To me, he seemed well aware that he stood to gain nothing and to lose everything. He had a comfortable life in Hawaii with his girlfriend, but felt motivated to speak out. This in spite of being aware that he'll likely spend the rest of his life in prison. When I stop and consider that he admits he knew this before he did it; that's when I feel like he someone who needs to be listened to.

I wish the focus was less on him and more on what he leaked. That's where things really seem to be going off the rails.

[LUconn]

I got that impression most likely from when we initially found out about who the leaker was. I didn't recall that he was a "dropout" but just going by my vague recollection, he didn't have a college degree and his previous jobs, if any, were unimpressive and then bam, he's making 6 figures with top secret clearance. "loser" I suppose is just hyperbole in my part to show how from what I think I remember about him, seems like a fishy background to be thrust into such a great job. I do believe him I guess, but I'm still partially suspicious. I guess there's just too many scandals going on, I'm trying to sort out which ones are the ones worth caring about, and which are just noise to distract us from the others. This one having just taken over making the IRS thing basically over which made Benghazi over, without having any actual tangible evidence leaked, makes me uneasy. For some reason we can't multi-task.

[Yacht Rock]

This didn't really give me any insight.

[jbock13]

The problem is, often people falsely equate education with intelligence.

[LUconn]

No, we've all had to get jobs before. And good ones aren't often available to people with no higher education, significant experience or powerful connections. It's enough to give anyone pause.

[jbock13]

Not sure what you mean. Plenty of successful businessmen have nothing but a high school diploma. Education is great, but it's not a guarantee of life's success.

Not sure what you're implying about me personally, but I do just fine

[LUconn]

We're kind of headed down a rabbit trail but he's not some entrepreneur that founded his own company. Navigating through corporate bureaucracy with no demonstrated experience and no higher education is nearly impossible. Heck, I've found it very difficult with those things.

[ATrain]

LUConn is right. Doesn't stop me from browsing USAJOBS frequently though.

[El Scorcho]

I got that impression most likely from when we initially found out about who the leaker was. I didn't recall that he was a "dropout" but just going by my vague recollection, he didn't have a college degree and his previous jobs, if any, were unimpressive and then bam, he's making 6 figures with top secret clearance. "loser" I suppose is just hyperbole in my part to show how from what I think I remember about him, seems like a fishy background to be thrust into such a great job. I do believe him I guess, but I'm still partially suspicious. I guess there's just too many scandals going on, I'm trying to sort out which ones are the ones worth caring about, and which are just noise to distract us from the others. This one having just taken over making the IRS thing basically over which made Benghazi over, without having any actual tangible evidence leaked, makes me uneasy. For some reason we can't multi-task.

Got it. Thank you for explaining.

[ALUmnus]

It just keeps coming. Not only do we have the NSA/CIA spying on the people they're supposed to protect and serve (which we kind of already knew they were), then we have the IRS and EPA collecting our data sans permission and then using it to attack political adversaries, now there's this from an agency most of us have never heard of:
http://spectator.org/archives/2013/06/2 ... atching-yo

The CFPB (Consumer Financial Protect Bureau) is spying on our financial transactions. This is an agency that doesn't really answer to congress, and is funded out of the Federal Reserve, so congress can't control what they do. And to top it off, the guy in charge was appointed unConstitutionally. Woohoo!

Add all that to Facebook creating shadow accounts on all its users (and, I have no doubt, former users), Microsoft & Amazon tracking everyone, and all you Google-obsessed geniuses who use Google for EVERYTHING you do.

One is forced, one is voluntary. Good stuff.

[Yacht Rock]

Saw this video today...it was funny.

[youtube]

[/youtube]

[RubberMallet]

It just keeps coming. Not only do we have the NSA/CIA spying on the people they're supposed to protect and serve (which we kind of already knew they were), then we have the IRS and EPA collecting our data sans permission and then using it to attack political adversaries, now there's this from an agency most of us have never heard of:
http://spectator.org/archives/2013/06/2 ... atching-yo

The CFPB (Consumer Financial Protect Bureau) is spying on our financial transactions. This is an agency that doesn't really answer to congress, and is funded out of the Federal Reserve, so congress can't control what they do. And to top it off, the guy in charge was appointed unConstitutionally. Woohoo!

Add all that to Facebook creating shadow accounts on all its users (and, I have no doubt, former users), Microsoft & Amazon tracking everyone, and all you Google-obsessed geniuses who use Google for EVERYTHING you do.

One is forced, one is voluntary. Good stuff.

hey look a white mexican killed a black "CHILD" RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE