[FlamingYalieWahoo]

If evangelical, orthodox students from other Christian traditions (Roman Catholics, Methodists, Presbyterians etc.) choose to attend LU, should they be berated by faculty who disagree with them. I know someone who was told by some faculty members - at graduation - that they were glad he was graduating and they didn't mean it in a nice way. I had another friend who was Methodist who was very outspoken about his disagreements with the moral teachings of the UM, but he was being a witness. Yet, some at LU were very negative towards him. Since many of such folks do really follow Christ, my doctor is Roman Catholic and he includes discussing our faith in Christ at every check up I have. He was in Young Life as a teenager which had a profound impact on him. Yeah, we might disagree about some points of practice and doctrine but really is it appropriate for faculty to do this on someone's special day?

[Cider Jim]

One of the great things about the LU faculty is how diverse we are now. When I came to LU 24 years ago, all faculty were required to be members of TRBC. Since then (I forget the year, but probably in the 1990s), faculty were given the freedom to attend other local churches. Though I'm still a Baptist, I teach with colleagues who belong to various other Protestant denominations--Methodist (Fumble, RIP), Presbyterian, Lutheran, etc.

Likewise, our student body is much more diverse. The last statistic I saw was that only 40% of our students are now Baptists.

[Rooster Cogburn]

Likewise, our student body is much more diverse. The last statistic I saw was that only 40% of our students are now Baptists.

If that is the case, then by default the profs must be more careful. Spirited debate is one thing, insult is a totally different and unacceptable thing.

[LUconn]

Regardless of who or why that situation happened, that attitude just seems very immature and vindictive. Just keep your mouth shut and deal like an adult.

[Hold My Own]

While there is no excuse for what happened (in his version of the story) we need to keep in mind our Profs are like our students...we have a lot and we need to make sure we dont try and lump them all in the "intolerant" category because of one or two.

[Cider Jim]

Gosh, I wish ole Fumble was still around to give his 2 cents on this topic.

But once Super gets wind of this topic, I'm sure we'll hear his opinion.

[FlamingYalieWahoo]

Thanks everybody for some good insights. I hope I didn't give the impression that I thought all or even most LU faculty had such an attitude. I know many in all departments who do not share this attitude or if they have qualms with others they don't make a big deal of it. Spirited debate is one thing but if someone is following Christ their denominational affiliation should be a minor issue. Unfortunately, when I was at LU in the early 80s I shared this attitude of bias but moving on and meeting people from other traditions really showed me how off base I was. For now I'm a Methodist and I lead an adult Sunday School class whose members are so hungry to know how to be faithful followers of Christ it puts me to shame. I would like to see an army of evangelicals re-take some of the mainline churches. In the southeast most of the large Methodist churches are evangelical and the African and South American churches are also conservative - they keep the denomination from going further into the tank. Thanks for your comments.

[ALUmnus]

Honestly, we really don't know any of the story, just what someone heard. This kid could have been a major headache for these profs.

[RubberMallet]

If evangelical, orthodox students from other Christian traditions (Roman Catholics, Methodists, Presbyterians etc.) choose to attend LU, should they be berated by faculty who disagree with them. I know someone who was told by some faculty members - at graduation - that they were glad he was graduating and they didn't mean it in a nice way. I had another friend who was Methodist who was very outspoken about his disagreements with the moral teachings of the UM, but he was being a witness. Yet, some at LU were very negative towards him. Since many of such folks do really follow Christ, my doctor is Roman Catholic and he includes discussing our faith in Christ at every check up I have. He was in Young Life as a teenager which had a profound impact on him. Yeah, we might disagree about some points of practice and doctrine but really is it appropriate for faculty to do this on someone's special day?

from my experience at the school the people that claim negativity toward them were very combative and argumentative first. basically what i'm saying is that they are dopes.

[SuperJon]

This kid was probably one of those kids who thinks he knows everything about the Bible and wanted to argue with people to make himself feel smarter. Undergrad is filled with those kids. It's the reason I almost left Liberty after my first semester. You learn to just laugh at them.

[FlamingYalieWahoo]

I know this person - have had lunch with him and communicated with him via email on numerous occasions - he is a very nice young man. I will vouch for his sincerity. He is not a combative person. I will say that he is Roman Catholic which is one tradition that gets treated with more contempt than most by evangelicals (I guess its that whole Reformation thing) - even though most of what their church teaches on moral issues (and most of its basic tenets of theology) are in keeping with much of what evangelicals believe. He was outspoken about being Roman Catholic but not in an obnoxious way. He was invited by the professor of the Roman Catholic theology class to present his views even though he wasn't in the class but the same faculty member insisted that he read an anti-catholic book and meet with him so he could persuade to leave Catholicism. This was sort of an attempt at spirited discussion. So doubt me if you want to but I have at least talked to him in person and know a little bit about his personality and his outlook on things.

Do we really want to call people "dopes" when as someone said - you don't know the whole story? Why do you assume the victim is guilty? Have you never been berated for something even though you've only mentioned or someone found out that you were a Christian, a Liberty student or anything else for which you take a stand? Is taking a stand for something in an outspoken manner necessarily being combative and argumentative?

[flames1971]

Regardless of who or why that situation happened, that attitude just seems very immature and vindictive. Just keep your mouth shut and deal like an adult.

I agree. At my school we have many different denominations, but we all have the same core beliefs and get along (for the most part ) fine. I have one friend who is Episcopolian and one who is Quaker, but that doesn't bother me a bit.

[whmatthews]

I wish Ergun Caner would post in this forum.

[Hold My Own]

I dont...I enjoy having him at LU and I think if he started to post on FF his job will be a thing of the past...

[Cider Jim]

Doc adopted the philosophy of his mentor, B.R. Lakin, who said he was "friends with all who were friends with Christ."

[FlamingYalieWahoo]

I will say that when I was a student at Yale Divinity School (which touted itself as non-sectarian) - myself and 3 women from different traditions (mainline Presbyterian, Greek Orthodox, and Episcopalian- sounds like the beginning of a bad joke) started an evangelical fellowship. Several of the evangelical faculty were very encouraging - some students not so much. In fact when we went to ask for funding from the student activities committee, the question was raised about what the standards were for providing funding - would a KKK group (I kid you not that was the illustration) be given funds. I took that to mean that our group was considered by some as similar in nature. Of course it was always fun telling other students that I had attended Liberty - it usually rendered them speechless and red-faced.

Its just ironic that some of those who resist other traditions forget that the evangelical tradition has roots in much of the teaching of persons who did/do not belong to the "accepted" evangelical denominations: Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, John Wesley - some more recent stalwarts - John Stott and J.I. Packer. All of these and many more made important contributions toward a better understanding of the faith. The same could be said in reverse - liberals forget how much of their traditions were shaped by evangelical/orthodox minded founders, theologians and laity (a funny thing - the topic of evangelism is now making a come-back in Methodism - John Wesley would be so proud.)

[LUconn]

In fact when we went to ask for funding from the student activities committee, the question was raised about what the standards were for providing funding - would a KKK group (I kid you not that was the illustration) be given funds.

Sometimes I wonder if there's some type of seminar or literature that gets passed around by these types that have a step by step playbook for what to do when confronted by evangelicals. It's always the same. You're compared to the KKK religiously or if it's a political issue, you're treated obviously as a Nazi. It's a rubber stamp response.

[Baldspot]

I started at Liberty in 1983 having been raised in a United Methodist church and saved as a teenager at a Pentecostal church camp due in part to the efforts of a Jesus hippie from the 70s. Most of my early discipleship came from public school friends who were Pentecostal, United Brethren, Lutheran, non-denominational etc. We started a lunch time prayer group that ended up getting sued by the ACLU (they lost). I read Jerry's book Listen America while in high school and knew that's where I was going.

I ended up living 10 years on campus working in various Student Development roles including supervising prayer groups etc and never had a problem from the school's standpoint. From time to time there were individuals stuck in the baptist back woods but Jerry was so progressive in that regard they were really outnumbered.

I do remember the TRBC membership requirements for faculty/staff but at the time figured it was to make sure we didn't veer too far off the beaten path so to speak (and also keep the tithing $$s close to home). My guess is allowing faculty and staff to branch out into the community has probably paid dividends in generating community support while still allowing the school to dictate standards.

[FlamingYalieWahoo]

Sometimes in services at TRBC - of course I'm trying to remember when I wasn't in a service at TRBC during the 80s. I think I spent as much time there and on a yellow school bus riding to and from services as in class but I digress - I did hear Jerry say - that when asked why he encouraged evangelicals in mainline denominations to leave - he would respond - I always take babies out of refrigerators. But to balance this you also have to remember that his father was lead to Christ by Presbyterian laymen. From what I've heard with a few exceptions beyond the case I mentioned above - there is a growing openness towards those in other traditions who attend or work at LU.