[PeterParker]

Interested to start a threadline and see others opinions on what LU can do to bolster its academic reputation in the collegiate world. (The debate team is a great headline grabber, but our rankings in the academic area still put us in the bottom tier, unlike a Baylor who, albeit 150 years old, is in the top areas.)

With the rolling admissions policy, and the desire on the admin/JF part not to deny anybody who wants a "distinctively christian education" from the mountain, what can be done to bridge that with the necessity to build a strong academic product/reputation. In discussions with other alum, several ideas have popped up, like creating a junior college on the mountain or something kind of like how Rudy Ruettiger (Rudy movie) wanted to go to Notre Dame, but had to settle on the smaller catholic feeder college down the road, and work his academics to get in. Perhaps if they tried something like that they could make the school more selective while still opening the opportunity for all who desire to come can come to experience the "mountain."

[Sly Fox]

Getting accreditation was a HUGE step for us. But our open enrollment up to this point is what destroys our reputation. Allegedly we are turning away applicants in large numbers this fall to try and control the explosive growth. That will help. We need to get our average SAT entrant titals up significantly.

But we are pouring most of our money into infrastructure right now and not compensating our profs the way you need to in order to attract & retain the best possible staff. That will need to be addressed eventually before we'll really begin making significant progress. But to be honest, its all about appearances.

[PeterParker]

I can see the need to get to the number, but they really need to move from that rolling admissions thing at some point. Until the academic standing reaches a Notre Dame level or higher, dreams of rivaling the "ivy league in academics" as JF puts it will be delayed. There are some simple solutions once the infrastructure is in place and they have reached the desired number. It would be nice to see a shift to an attention to quality, not only in academics but also in the manner they approach building etcetera...moving away from the church camp idea, to a more professional approach (which appears to be happening.)

Prestige will always attract people, even if they don't agree with you 100%; if your product really is the best at some point the underlying numbers have to correlate to the big statements and grandstanding to avoid looking foolish. I don't mind the vision and the statements, just would like to see evidence of attention being paid to getting the facts and stats to match.

[Hold My Own]

yeah, once the only construction is putting up new dorms to meet the growing student body I think it'll all work out...I think LU is going about this the right way although some would say get your academic standards up first and go/grow from there although I think being a private christian university it puts us in a different situation

[TallyW]

I agree. Get the population up to where we want it... then you create an environment worth coming to. Once you do that... begin to jack up admissions requirements. All in due time. The facts are that many of the people who claim LU's academics are terrible are the same people who got in because of that.

[A.G.]

Once someone gets into the school, they still have to do the college-level work.

[LUconn]

As of right now, I knew a few people that used LU as something of a Junior College. Get your grades up at LU and then transfer to where they wanted to go. The joke's on them though. I doubt their state schools will take evangelism or GNED as credits.

[TallyW]

agreed A.G.
I've never met an alum that felt they were ripped off with their undergrad. In fact I've heard quite the opposite... that people get out into the world and have a different voice to offer... LU does a good job of exposing you to both sides of the arguement where state schools typically hang far left on issues. It adds something to the workplace... a broader perspective of ideas.

Besides... most jobs the average student will get will NOT CARE where you got your degree. They just want it to be an accredited degree and they want to see you get the job done.

[jcmanson]

If the major increase of applicants that Jerry is alleging is true, then I would think the incoming freshman for next year would have very good SAT scores, GPA's, etc.

[jack_sparrow81]

Tally W is right. I had a couple of buddies that went to Appalachian St. and Samford and they would tell me all through school that their schools are ranked Top 10 in US Weekly and Liberty's academics were a joke yadda yadda and their schools were so much better . We all graduated in 2004: The ASU buddy is still searching for a job and living with his parents at home and the Samford grad just got a job 6 months ago and I'm making double of what he is making with the same major. It took me about 4 weeks after graduation to get the job that I'm at now. I'm not sitting here trying to brag that I'm better than them because making more money does not mean that you are more successful, but it goes to show you that a school's academic reputation isn't all that important unless you go to Ivy league school or close such as Duke or Stanford. In some cases, yeh I will admit, it does make a difference such as graduating from Duke or Florida with a medical degree is impressive, but most employers nowadays just want that piece of paper showing that you graduated from somewhere whether it be backwoods university or Harvard. Liberty's has some excellent professors (Bruce Bell for example) that could easily teach at an Ivy league school if they wanted to.

[jack_sparrow81]

Sorry for the double post. i also didn't want to come off as conceited from my ranting and raving. God has definitly blessed me for where I am today and it doesn't matter whether i'm making two cents or a billion dollars. It just ticks you off sometimes of the perceived notions of these kooks of slamming Liberty and all.

[Hold My Own]

Not to mention the generation gap is just ending and people who've attended LU are now starting to send their kids here, although it's really going to take a few more years since the first batch of LU'rs really had it rough....but a few more years and I think the word will be out and then like I said before everything will be raised (prob. prices again too!)

[PeterParker]

I would hope that "kooks" wasn't referring to my post. My post was simply trying to start a healthy discussion of the "perceived quality" from outside sources--if I own a business and the only people who know and believe that I have a great product are only the ones who work for me, then it's going to be more difficult to get people to buy my product--I have to get it out there in the court of public opinion that it is a great product. If you read my post, it does not suggest that I do not value my education and the intangibles that LU offers that cannot be measured with rankings, opinions, etc. My point was to raise the question of what steps could and should be taken to raise the statistical and perceived merit of the academic reputation. I also did not say that it needed to be 1600 (well 2400 now) to get in. I also agree that much more makes the student than a test score, which is why many schools are dropping the SAT as a sole factor in the selection process. In my opinion, as a former educator, an institution should be measured on the quality of student you produce from your system regardless of the status of that student when they arrived. Unfortunately, the rankings system takes more into account university financials, facilities and "quality" of student as determined by testing scores, high school class rank and GPA which is the source where most high school seniors are formulating their decisions from and ultimately using as a basis to make their decisions.

My post was to see how to make the LU admissions selection process a bit more competitive; in theory the rolling admissions policy could knockout someone who has a high SAT, GPA and class ranking and good all around elements because they choose to late to apply and accept a spot at LU in favor of someone who happened to apply earlier. It is my opinion that once the point of critical mass, or the desired amount of enrolled students, is reached, the rolling admissions thing should be phased out in favor of a system that employs an early decision call and places a premium of targeting the most qualified students from the pool of applicants that desire to come to LU.

Also, I work with people who went to VA schools (VT, UVA, W&M, George Mason, Norfolk State, pretty much the whole lot); I even work with a Brown graduate, and when discussion inevitably turns to alma maters, especially during sports seasons, my fellow workers have opinions about LU academics that I know are misconceptions and as an ambassador for my alma mater attempt to address (although I must say the Radford grad in our group has the toughest time shaking the perceived reputation thing from grads of the big four-VT, UVA, Richmond, W&M-with the whole party thing and being taken seriously as an institution); but therein lies my point, what the perception is in the court of public opinion soley concerning the academic angle. I know the quality of the education I received, and the value it affords me...but my point is that there is somewhat of a disparity between what I know to be true about my degree and what the academic community at large "believes."

[jack_sparrow82]

No it wasn't aimed at you. I was just venting about these other schools. Youre right to some degree with strengh the academics by reviewing the selection process more closely. It just harder to accomplish at a Evangelical school than other schools. You also have to figure that Liberty's only been around for 30 years as compared to some of these other schools that have been around for over 100 years. With this said, does anyone have statistics on the endowment funds of the school through the years?

[PeterParker]

True enough...the strides in 30+ years is impressive; can only imagine what the next 30 hold...I guess the question becomes one of if the powers that be are attentive to this and have a plan to temper the quantity gaols with an attention to the quality question.

I think the endowment thing is an important push...as alumni that is the ticket to making sure the school becomes increasingly stronger in all areas. My company works with universities and their alumni base, so many people have degrees from schools that don't exist anymore. That has to be complicated trying to explain that your degree is valid. The endowment practically assures us that we won't have to worry about it.

I posted this idea on another thread, but the university should develop a marketing plan that provides a site for alumni and university supporters to come and get information on the direction of growth they plan for the school. (Complete with visual layouts of the goals and dreams for the physical structure, the academic programs they wish to implement and where one could securely donate online-paypal?) Pictures are worth a thousand words. Also they should come up with a marketing slogan besides BHAG. My suggestion:



or

[Hold My Own]

True enough...the strides in 30+ years is impressive; can only imagine what the next 30 hold...I guess the question becomes one of if the powers that be are attentive to this and have a plan to temper the quantity gaols with an attention to the quality question.

I think the endowment thing is an important push...as alumni that is the ticket to making sure the school becomes increasingly stronger in all areas. My company works with universities and their alumni base, so many people have degrees from schools that don't exist anymore. That has to be complicated trying to explain that your degree is valid. The endowment practically assures us that we won't have to worry about it.

I posted this idea on another thread, but the university should develop a marketing plan that provides a site for alumni and university supporters to come and get information on the direction of growth they plan for the school. (Complete with visual layouts of the goals and dreams for the physical structure, the academic programs they wish to implement and where one could securely donate online-paypal?) Pictures are worth a thousand words. Also they should come up with a marketing slogan besides BHAG. My suggestion:

You know they were working on something like what you were talking about, I wonder how it's coming? I see what I can dig up, but that is a great idea...I dont worry about the University to much b/c JFjr is as smart as they come although there wouldnt be a public figure to help promote the school like is being done now...I wish someone in admissions could show us the numbers from the year before JF took over recruiting and after....those numbers will make your jaw drop, I saw them one time but I cant recall them enough to post them....but just look at the growth in the last 3-4 years which is when he started to recruit...I can find out tomorrow

[PeterParker]

So what did you find out, if anything.