[olldflame]

I believe my purple friend, as the admin. is moving forward with overall expansion plans, a lot of things are being rethought. I can imagine that the original idea was. ÖK, we are building a new baseball stadium and we have this old one. Isn´t it logical to convert it for softball? Then they probably realized it would cost just as much as building a new one and there are a lot of pressing needs in the overall scheme of things which that strategically located piece of land could meet. Chances are the land will be used for something having nothing to do with athletics. As has been mentioned by others, interest in softball is limited and attendance isn´t going to be that great no matter where they are. If they ultimately build a nice facility for softball, IMHO they will have been treated fairly.

[Purple Haize]

I believe my purple friend, as the admin. is moving forward with overall expansion plans, a lot of things are being rethought. I can imagine that the original idea was. ÖK, we are building a new baseball stadium and we have this old one. Isn´t it logical to convert it for softball? Then they probably realized it would cost just as much as building a new one and there are a lot of pressing needs in the overall scheme of things which that strategically located piece of land could meet. Chances are the land will be used for something having nothing to do with athletics. As has been mentioned by others, interest in softball is limited and attendance isn´t going to be that great no matter where they are. If they ultimately build a nice facility for softball, IMHO they will have been treated fairly.

The point is there is no master plan. Do we know, and we may and I haven't heard, what that 'valuable' land is going to be used for? Thus the comment about it being 'too valuable for softball' and 'softball being treated like a red headed step child'. Your last statement treats them exactly LIKE a redheaded step child. It's the attitude of 'they should just be happy with what they get' and be done with it.

[olldflame]

How do you know there is no master plan? It´s not something they would necessarily want to make public, and one reason is the very fact that it is subject to change. If you take a look at where Worthington is located it´s easy to see that the admistration has to consider a lot more than sports in deciding how to use that land. Listen, I am in total agreement with those who have complained that the current softball facilities are inadequate and totally out of line with the overall trend and the resources available. I am beginning to regret using the red headed step child analogy, but you could certainly argue that is how they have been treated thus far. Something needs to be done. I believe it will, and the end result will be a facility our softball team can be proud of. The fact that that facility is going to be elsewhere on campus is not IMHO abusing them in any way shape or form.

[Purple Haize]

How do you know there is no master plan? It´s not something they would necessarily want to make public, and one reason is the very fact that it is subject to change. If you take a look at where Worthington is located it´s easy to see that the admistration has to consider a lot more than sports in deciding how to use that land. Listen, I am in total agreement with those who have complained that the current softball facilities are inadequate and totally out of line with the overall trend and the resources available. I am beginning to regret using the red headed step child analogy, but you could certainly argue that is how they have been treated thus far. Something needs to be done. I believe it will, and the end result will be a facility our softball team can be proud of. The fact that that facility is going to be elsewhere on campus is not IMHO abusing them in any way shape or form.

Why wouldn't you make your master plan public? Most places release artist/architecture renderings of what the future will look like. So why did that land become more valuable? Obviously that area wasn't too valuable for baseball to be in the neighborhood. What changed to make it too valuable for softball? Further, ANY permanent structure will be an upgrade to the softball facilities, this making it something to be proud of by historical comparison. Softball is and always will be treated like the red headed step child, so your analogy is correct. Look at the facilities new athletic and club teams and ask yourself why the priority wasn't on existing programs? And people wonder why Title IX is important.

[olldflame]

Worthington field was built when I was a student at LBC Haize. Yes, that´s right, I said LBC, not LU. WE are talking about the dark ages here. You can´t compare the decision to locate the baseball field there in the 70´s when there were only a few buildings on campus with this decision. You just can´t. It´s a totally different world now. I´m sure in recent years, even before the decision was made to build the new baseball facility, there have been times they wished the land was available to use for something else.

BTW, for some of our younger flamefans, I was using an an analogy based on the old expression Ï´m gunna beat you like a red headed step child.¨ The idea is the kid doesn´t look like it´s step father... it´s ¨different¨ and therefore more inclined to be abused or get the short end of the stick.

[Purple Haize]

Isn't the new baseball field essentially being built right next to the old baseball field?

[logic]

The master plan(s) surely is public, but has never been promoted because as someone said, it changes daily.


This was a "master plan" presented in 2008 that has been completely redone. -

http://www.liberty.edu/media/9972/MASTER_PLAN_CUP.pdf


I see it this way as far as priority order -

1. Football
2. Men's basketball
3. Baseball/Women's basketball

And I would argue as it should be. For the other sports, the pecking order falls somewhere after those 4. If you want to be at number 5, win, keep your kids out of trouble, do well in the classroom, and generally be seen and not heard (read, no complaining). Rarely will you ever be given more if you couldn't do it first with less. That is a universal law of success... go above and beyond despite the apparent drawbacks.

Having said that, we all know softball needs a new facility. It's coming. I think we're getting all bent out of shape because it won't be at Worthington. Relax, it is coming.

My 2 cents -

1. Use Worthington for a state of the art, standalone business school, complete with a mock stock floor and 5 million of real money for the investment club to manage. Make it the nicest building on campus and build it into a Wharton, Kellogg, Darden, etc. Wait 20 years then see the return on investment when LU gradates turn out to be straight shooters with upper level management written all over them.

2. Build an entirely new facility for softball on East campus. It looks like there is still room out near the new Hockey and Lax fields. We have 8,000 acres, I am sure we can find a spot.

3. Live happily ever after (and make fun of Pink Smoke along the way whenever possible )

[Purple Haize]

When exactly will it be coming? How many times has it been promised? How many BSC has Softball won? Wouldn't that put them higher on the pecking order than a new sport? Any drug arrests on the women's softball team? Accusations of coaching misconduct? No and No. Do their kids graduate? Yes. So, your argument is valid that you think they are getting hosed.
As you stated there was a master plan in 2008 that has been completely redone and is now meaningless. I know and agree things change but why a stand alone business school there? What makes the land so valuable?

[olldflame]

The 3 most important words in real estate in my new native tongue.

localidad
localidad
localidad

When the tunnel and new entrance to 29 are completed this will be even more prime property than it is now.

[Purple Haize]

The 3 most important words in real estate in my new native tongue.

localidad
localidad
localidad

When the tunnel and new entrance to 29 are completed this will be even more prime property than it is now.

Hey! Watch your language!
I would agree if the baseball field wasn't right next to the old one. Again, I don't disagree that SB is being treated like a red headed step child. It's just I disagree with those who are pretending it isn't.

[olldflame]

I´m not sure which side I fall on there purple. I agree that is their current status. If a new facility with all the ammenities commensurate with our resources and their status as an established D1 program is built, I would say that status has changed. That doesn´t mean they are the favorite son. We all know that will always be football, but they will have their place at the table with the rest of the family. Lets face it, we probably wouldn´t even be having this discussion if the school hadn´t originally announced they were going to convert Worthington for softball. Plans for the new location would probably be complete by now, and everyone would be happy campers.

[Purple Haize]

They have been promised new facilities numerous times. They will never have a seat at the table. They are not as trendy glamorous or flashy as the other 'other' sports.

[olldflame]

They have been promised new facilities numerous times. They will never have a seat at the table. They are not as trendy glamorous or flashy as the other 'other' sports.

Shall we add to that list of adjectives athletic and entertaining? There is a reason for the sports waning popularity. It has it´s fans, but for most it is simply not as fun to watch as most of the other women´s sports to say nothing of their male counterparts.

[Purple Haize]

They have been promised new facilities numerous times. They will never have a seat at the table. They are not as trendy glamorous or flashy as the other 'other' sports.

Shall we add to that list of adjectives athletic and entertaining? There is a reason for the sports waning popularity. It has it´s fans, but for most it is simply not as fun to watch as most of the other women´s sports to say nothing of their male counterparts.

It can be very entertaining. The numbers from ESPN SB World Series would be a place to start. Just about any woman's sport will be less athletic than it male equivalent. I think it's more exciting or as exciting to watch than most women's sports.
But lets not forget Title IX.

[olldflame]

We are playing semantics with what are already analogies here, but I would most definately disagree that they don´t have a ¨seat at the table¨unless they get their new field at the Worthington location. Their needs should be adressed as have other programs. The fact that past promises have not been kept should not really matter once they have a new home.

[logic]

They have been promised new facilities numerous times. They will never have a seat at the table. They are not as trendy glamorous or flashy as the other 'other' sports.

Why do you feel that way Haize?

[Purple Haize]

We are playing semantics with what are already analogies here, but I would most definately disagree that they don´t have a ¨seat at the table¨unless they get their new field at the Worthington location. Their needs should be adressed as have other programs. The fact that past promises have not been kept should not really matter once they have a new home.

Yeah. All broken promises should mean nothing.

[PAmedic]

Does baseball have indoor batting cages? And why should softball get more than other women's sports?

yes, becoming an industry standard.

[Purple Haize]

Wow. It even has a retractable roof for our big hitters !

[alabama24]

I would agree if the baseball field wasn't right next to the old one.

Haize - I wouldn't say that new field is "right next" to the old one! Worthington Field is much closer to the heart of "main campus." The new baseball stadium, along with the tennis courts, soccer stadium and William's stadium provide a buffer between the administrative buildings (Green Hall) and academic. If new academic buildings went up where Worthington Field is now… it would be relatively close to the new library.

I dont disagree that softball has gotten the short end of the deal… but in order to grow the other women's sports, financial investments were needed immediately. If this thread is still going on this time NEXT year without plans in place to take care of softball, I'll join the picket line with you.

[Purple Haize]

There was a plan in place last year. There have been plans 'in place' off and on for years. It's not a priority, and never will be. They will end up in a few years with a decent place with nice dugouts and bleachers, a small club house and maybe palace for visitors to change.

[logic]

There was a plan in place last year. There have been plans 'in place' off and on for years. It's not a priority, and never will be. They will end up in a few years with a decent place with nice dugouts and bleachers, a small club house and maybe palace for visitors to change.

I don't agree here, Haize. Besides basketball, what women's sport is a priority except maybe Volleyball? How is softball any different than the other women's sports not mentioned above?

[Purple Haize]

There was a plan in place last year. There have been plans 'in place' off and on for years. It's not a priority, and never will be. They will end up in a few years with a decent place with nice dugouts and bleachers, a small club house and maybe palace for visitors to change.

I don't agree here, Haize. Besides basketball, what women's sport is a priority except maybe Volleyball? How is softball any different than the other women's sports not mentioned above?

What do you disagree with? You are agreeing with me that it isn't a priority. How many Club sports or new athletic programs, or joint programs have had facility upgrades?

[logic]

Not sure it is a good argument to include FH as there was no place to play hockey prior to building the field. The sport required a dedicated field...IE you couldn't play hockey on the soccer field. Thank you Title IX, says FH. Lacrosse shares their field with club sports, and good for them as a multi-use facility kills more birds with one stone. REC, IM, and Varsity can all share it. New varsity only facilities, especially for non-revenue women's sports, used by one team and one team only, are hard to come by.

My argument was that softball isn't any less of a priority than other women's sports, and you made it out to seem they are last on the list. My guess is lacrosse doesn't get "their" new facility without REC, club, and IM sports pushing for it as well.

[Purple Haize]

Not sure it is a good argument to include FH as there was no place to play hockey prior to building the field. The sport required a dedicated field...IE you couldn't play hockey on the soccer field. Thank you Title IX, says FH. Lacrosse shares their field with club sports, and good for them as a multi-use facility kills more birds with one stone. REC, IM, and Varsity can all share it. New varsity only facilities, especially for non-revenue women's sports, used by one team and one team only, are hard to come by.

My argument was that softball isn't any less of a priority than other women's sports, and you made it out to seem they are last on the list. My guess is lacrosse doesn't get "their" new facility without REC, club, and IM sports pushing for it as well.

So if everyone gets new facilities, shared or not, before you , this doesn't actually mean you are last