A Sea Of Red

I caught a glimpse of him and his wife last night on Larry King Live. I know I am dead wrong here, but my first gut reaction was "Jim and Tammy Faye" all over again. The way he talked in normal conversation, to me, was in the "TV Preacher's Voice" and overly showy, much like Bakker did. (editorial note...JF always spoke like a normal guy, as have several other big time pastors when I have had the opportunity to meet them). I will admit I only caught the part when they were talking about money and how God wants us to be successful...enter PTL Show flashback.

Sly, I know you can provide some insight. Pleading totally ignorant, here, can you feel me in on him and his ministry. He must be doing something right.

I don't know a whole lot about his ministry...but I have always gotten a bad vibe from him. I have heard rumors from someone who says a good family friend use to work for the ministry that aren't so great...but those are rumors that I probably shouldn't just throw out there on a public forum...

He just always gives me a bad vibe....

That's what I want...personal perceptions...is it just me? Am I missing something? Or am I just being overly cynical?

I don't think so...but maybe thats just because I agree with you...I saw him on Larry King a couple of years ago and he told Larry King that he didn't like to talk about sin because he wanted to keep things positive...i have always wanted to find a video clip of that, but never have....plus I worked for Inservice America for a while and took calls for his ministry and the crap I was forced to say to the callers at the end of the call was enough to make me sick....most ministries always wanted you to mention how to donate money, but Osteen's speel was so long that I always felt like I was guilting people into giving money....I stopped reading it after a while....

Joel Osteen on Larry King, discussing salvation (specifically, John 14:6)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPeYUXuuRUM&NR=1

(I don't think I can embed vids in FlameFans).

I was just going to post that...JF really wanted him to come in and speak....then he became crazy

Every time I've listened to him the message seemed to dwell on - seek God and you will be rich, which someone stated earlier sounds like Jim Bakker.

He's basically a positive thinking guy, a motivational speaker. His messages are all the same: never deep or substantial, all about accentuating the positive in order to live the life God intended you to have (although he's not name it/claim it or prosperity per se). It's mostly about being happy and living life with joy as a child of God. Nothing wrong with his message, God knows Jerry Falwell preached on it more than a few times, but it's pretty much Osteen's only focus. That's where I disagree, and why I'm not particularly a fan.

He's a decent therapist but not a preacher. He doesn't preach the whole Bible, just the "happy texts." A Pollyanna preacher.

Ed Dantes wrote:Joel Osteen on Larry King, discussing salvation (specifically, John 14:6)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPeYUXuuRUM&NR=1

(I don't think I can embed vids in FlameFans).

wow...i think he is just into everybody loving him...

I just can't deal with the eye thing. When he speaks from the pulpit, he takes forever to blink. Never trust a man who'd rather look at you with his eyes closed.

I cant find a picture or video but Joel looks JUST LIKE that kid from The Legend of Bagger Vance...I mean spot on!

They look like each other, act like each other...the boy even does the eye thing where he cant blink normal

I used to really enjoy listening to him preach, but I noticed that I have never heard him say anything about Christ. What is the Christian life without Christ???

jcmanson wrote:I used to really enjoy listening to him preach, but I noticed that I have never heard him say anything about Christ. What is the Christian life without Christ???

Ian life.

jcmanson wrote:I used to really enjoy listening to him preach, but I noticed that I have never heard him say anything about Christ. What is the Christian life without Christ???

You must have never watched an entire broadcast. He always closes with a quick invitation. Not exactly a Gospel message, but I'm pretty sure he mentions Christ.

First off, I admit I have mixed feelings about Joel. I'm not a fan of Victoria but that's just me.

Is he Christian Lite? Pretty much. His sermons are more about having a relationship with God and having a positive attitude than anything else. He's preaching to seekers more than anybody else. And he is being very successful in that goal. Churches all over Houston are loaded with folks who were attracted by Joel's positive messages and then went seeking for deeper truths. I attended a few weeks ago with one of my best friends who is a lifelong Catholic and was attending the first non-Catholic service of his life (against the wishes of most of his family). He's disenchanted with Catholicism and he sees hope in Joel's preaching. That has allowed Mrs. Sly & I an opportunity to reach out to him on a deeper level.

I admit I pull for a guy who is a preacher's son and who spent most of his life as a broadcaster. He sold off his television station a year or so ago about the time Lakewood moved into the old Summit/Compaq Center. I read his first book and enjoyed it as a motivational tool.

Lakewood was started by Joel's dad John as a SBC mission in a feedmill. They long ago left the SBC behind which makes nearby Second Baptist (Ed Young Sr.'s church) the largest church in America connected to a denomination.

For the record, the worship service is awesome with Israel Houghton in that environment and that is a big reason why the church attendance is so strong.

And Joel does have a full invitation after they sign off the television broadcast.

Joel Osteen = sermonettes for Christianettes.

Seriously, I can't stomach the man. Although talking about him the last time he was on King got me FLOODED with readers and comments.

Wasn't he on sixty minutes a few days ago? He kinda creeped me out, and then my fiance said he gave her the child molester vibe, and I agree.

Sly Fox wrote:First off, I admit I have mixed feelings about Joel. I'm not a fan of Victoria but that's just me.

Is he Christian Lite? Pretty much. His sermons are more about having a relationship with God and having a positive attitude than anything else. He's preaching to seekers more than anybody else. And he is being very successful in that goal. Churches all over Houston are loaded with folks who were attracted by Joel's positive messages and then went seeking for deeper truths. I attended a few weeks ago with one of my best friends who is a lifelong Catholic and was attending the first non-Catholic service of his life (against the wishes of most of his family). He's disenchanted with Catholicism and he sees hope in Joel's preaching. That has allowed Mrs. Sly & I an opportunity to reach out to him on a deeper level.

I admit I pull for a guy who is a preacher's son and who spent most of his life as a broadcaster. He sold off his television station a year or so ago about the time Lakewood moved into the old Summit/Compaq Center. I read his first book and enjoyed it as a motivational tool.

Lakewood was started by Joel's dad John as a SBC mission in a feedmill. They long ago left the SBC behind which makes nearby Second Baptist (Ed Young Sr.'s church) the largest church in America connected to a denomination.

For the record, the worship service is awesome with Israel Houghton in that environment and that is a big reason why the church attendance is so strong.

And Joel does have a full invitation after they sign off the television broadcast.

Thats a very interesting take....and a side I've never looked at before...I guess I rather him do what he's doing then not doing anything at all...


ALTHOUGH it is very dangerous for his members...similar to those at LU who grew up in the Christian home and Christian school and learn how to play both sides...party at night but all the parents think they are the greatest kids ever b/c they see them playing Church...I think the same for his members


Not all will seek out to find out more like Sly's friend...but I'm thankful for those that have.

Hold My Own wrote:I was just going to post that...JF really wanted him to come in and speak....then he became crazy

JF or JO??? LOL

RagingTireFire wrote:I just can't deal with the eye thing. When he speaks from the pulpit, he takes forever to blink. Never trust a man who'd rather look at you with his eyes closed.

Interesting totally unrelated observation. If you have ever watched the movie Jesus Of Nazareth (old school but awesome) the person who plays Jesus (non credited btw) RARELY if ever blinks. One time I actaully counted how many blinks but forgot how many It wasn't often

And now for something completely serious:

There are a lot of preachers like JO out there. He is just the lates incarnation of the Mega Church movement. I compare him to a Willow Creek (Illinois) Ed Hybles church. Yes, his sermons aren't going to rival Jonathon Edwards for their dogman and hermeneuitcs, BUT they do have mass appeal and bring people into the church. Isn't there a place for that anymore? SLY makes a rare good point when he says people LEAVE that church to find other places to grow. Why is this wrong? He does a great job of putting positive spin on Christianity to show people that it is not all hellfire and brimstone. Think of the people he can reach.
Now, does he look like a child molester? Probably. WAAAAYYYY to much hair gel, looks like an old manager of mine who I despised, not a big fan of his wife (although she is sort of a hotty) and I am ALWAYS suspicious of TV Preachers. Maybe that is b/c I have had personal experiences with OR, JandT, and JS. So until he get arrested for molestin dead collies or such I am going ot give him the benefit of the doubt. Remember alot of these thigs were also said about Rick warren

He was given a platform on Larry King's show and asked if Jesus is the only way to heaven and replied, "I don't know." In the same interview he went on to say Hindus may get to heaven based on how committed they are to their beliefs.

Of course he's attracting large crowds and selling lots of books with this nonsense. The question for each of us is whether we prefer the glitz of large crowds or taking a chance on being the only one at a party.

Baldspot wrote:He was given a platform on Larry King's show and asked if Jesus is the only way to heaven and replied, "I don't know." In the same interview he went on to say Hindus may get to heaven based on how committed they are to their beliefs.

I hope you can find a transcript of that interview, because in the Larry King interview that I found (from June 20, 2005), Joel Osteen said that he believes that the only way to heaven is through Christ, but God is the only one who can judge the heart of a person.

Larry King Live: June 20,2005 wrote:KING: Phoenix, Arizona. Hello.

CALLER: Hello, Larry. You're the best, and thank you, Joe -- Joel -- for your positive messages and your book. I'm wondering, though, why you side-stepped Larry's earlier question about how we get to heaven? The bible clearly tells us that Jesus is the way, the truth and the light and the only way to the father is through him. That's not really a message of condemnation but of truth.

OSTEEN: Yes, I would agree with her. I believe that...

KING: So then a Jew is not going to heaven?

OSTEEN: No. Here's my thing, Larry, is I can't judge somebody's heart. You know? Only god can look at somebody's heart, and so -- I don't know. To me, it's not my business to say, you know, this one is or this one isn't. I just say, here's what the bible teaches and I'm going to put my faith in Christ. And I just I think it's wrong when you go around saying, you're saying you're not going, you're not going, you're not going, because it's not exactly my way. I'm just...

KING: But you believe your way.

OSTEEN: I believe my way. I believe my way with all my heart.

KING: But for someone who doesn't share it is wrong, isn't he?

OSTEEN: Well, yes. Well, I don't know if I look at it like that. I would present my way, but I'm just going to let god be the judge of that. I don't know. I don't know.

KING: So you make no judgment on anyone?

OSTEEN: No. But I...

KING: What about atheists?

OSTEEN: You know what, I'm going to let someone -- I'm going to let god be the judge of who goes to heaven and hell. I just -- again, I present the truth, and I say it every week. You know, I believe it's a relationship with Jesus. But you know what? I'm not going to go around telling everybody else if they don't want to believe that that's going to be their choice. God's got to look at your own heart. God's got to look at your heart, and only god knows that.

And the "hindu" bit:

KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?

OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.

Source: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... kl.01.html

How do you feel about that scorcy....this rub's me the wrong way but from how you set it up it almost seemed like you really didnt have that much of a problem with it