[SuperJon]

Ok, I know it's going to get questions, so here's the copy and paste from the website I got it from. It's Jay Bakker's church (Revolution Church) in Atlanta, GA.

Jesus Is The Saviour Not Christianity
Are we defending Christ or Christianity? Will enforcing the ideals of a pre-packaged Christian lifestyle help people feel the love of Christ? Do we believe that our lifestyles hold more truths than Jesus? Are we trying to drive people to Christianity or lead them to Christ?


Religion Kills
Religion is a false perception of holiness that focuses on law and kills the true message of Christ. Jesus had much to say about the religious who put the law before his true message.

“…How terrible it will be for you experts of religious law! For you crush people beneath impossible religious demands, and you never lift a finger to ease the burden.” Luke 11:46

“How terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest part of your income, but you ignore the important things of the law- justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but you should not leave undone the most important things. Blind Guides! You strain your water so you won’t accidentally swallow a gnat; then you swallow a camel.” Matthew 23:23-24

Jesus came and declared that the most important law was “You must love the Lord with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind; and love your neighbor as yourself.” (Matthew 22:37.39) Religion ignores the reasons behind this being the most important commandment and only focuses on the exterior and works as a way to get close to God. It is religion that not only kills the true message of hope Christ taught but also has held back the lost from understanding the true meaning of Christianity.

[Sly Fox]

I understand the intent. Its not a new concept. Tony Campolo popularized it 20-30 years ago. While I agree with the core premise, it doesn't take into consideration the impact of such statements on non-believers. The shock value for Christians is fine with me since it provokes independent thought. But I'm concerned that the seekers might get a misconstrued message.

[SuperJon]

I know it's not a new concept, I just wanted to post this because I'm sure it's going to get questions. The thing that I like about those two banners is the shock factor. Someone sees that and they're more than likely going to ask, "What do you mean?" and I think that opens the door to "witness" to them. A simple Jesus fish or WWJD or whatever shirt isn't going to spark an interest in someone to come up and ask you what it means.

[Hold My Own]

yeah, the biggest problem with these is non-believers say "Hey I just have to believe in Jesus and not all the in's and out's of a religion"

[Brokeback Flamer]

yeah, the biggest problem with these is non-believers say "Hey I just have to believe in Jesus and not all the in's and out's of a religion"

Umm... it worked for the apostles

[Sly Fox]

I'm moving this thread to The Chapel. It fits that forum much better.

For the record, I like this thread.

[Hold My Own]

I would hope you get the jest of that statement but I have had to explain things before so here it goes, some people say I can do whatever I want as long as I believe in Jesus

Example....you would say, I can have lots of boyfriends and as long as I believe in Jesus it's OK

[El Scorcho]

I don't really care for Jay Bakker. Jesus is still a-okay with me, though.

[Sly Fox]

Forgive my ignorance but I had no idea he was in the ministry. Considering everything he was exposed to as a kid int hat household, I would've assumed otherwise. I remember seeing him and his older sister (who couldn't carry a tune in a bucket, bless her heart) as kids on the old PTL pre-Jessica Hahn.

[SuperJon]

He's been in the ministry about 10 years. He speaks mainly to the subculture and has a book out. Some stuff I don't like, some stuff I really do. His church (The Revolution) is a lot like Reese Roper's church (Scum Of The Earth). The Revolution actually meets in a concert venue type deal.

[SuperJon]

Bakker and Jerry don't get along, and that's putting it VERY nicely. However, Dr. Vukich, head of the youth department, has been trying for a long time to get Bakker to come speak at LU.

[PAmedic]

I got it right away

I agree wholeheartedly

I'm a little concerned that HMO has lots of boyfriends. (I think he should narrow it down a bit)

[Brokeback Flamer]

I got it right away

I agree wholeheartedly

I'm a little concerned that HMO has lots of boyfriends. (I think he should narrow it down a bit)

Good one.......but if he only has 1 boyfriend............
I love the statement. Sure it can get carried away, but has anyone seen the Greek Orthodox liturgy !! WOW!!! Sure you will have the people say "I don't need no commentaries or nothing just the KJV. It was good enough for the disciples, it is good enough for me!!" (Actual statement, and yes he DID mean the REAL ENGLISH KJV!!)
The only credence I put into "religion" or more specifically "denomination" ( a more accurate 21st century word for the same differences) is to be able to recognize how people worship God. AG (Not A. G.) do it one way, Church of Christ do it another. If we start focusing on "religion" then one of these two HAS TO BE WRONG! We could even have a Religious Civil War between the graduates of Northern Baptist Seminar and the Southern Baptist Convention!
As for my two cents on the Bakers, I really like what Jay has done. I might actually show up to hear this guy speak. What a life he has lived. It would have beeen SOOOO easy for him to turn his back and become bitter and jaded, but he has taken where he is and chosen to serve there. Awesome!! As for his dad, I met him a few years ago and he was truly a broken man. He admitted that his biggest "problem" was "the crowd". That made think. He said that it was so intoxicating to be in front of the camera's the focus of all attention the ability to rub elbows with the movers and shakers of the world, that he became addicted to it. Made me think. (at least it wasnt nasal sprays like his ex!!)

[Jasmen8182]

Christianity IS "watered down" in a lot of churches; we need to show God's love while still holding to His truths, not afraid of offense but not bashing/unloving. We really need the Holy Spirit's guidance. This came up in a study on James. It's really got me thinking- though I've been "saved" for more than 3 decades. Pure and undefiled religion will be evident in works; Paul certainly didn't tread lightly on issues facing the early church either. I also just heard on radio today about covenants (like btwn. one tribal chief and another); it was amazing to hear how it fits with God's covenant with us. One of the steps (last?) is about blessings-IF we abide by the covenant- and cursings- IF we break the covenant.

[Jasmen8182]

PS it's Sun.April 22 still @8:35 (7:35pm inTexas?)