A Sea Of Red

I feel that. Most of my favorite music is in that space- religious themes outside of the Christian market. There’s so much more honesty and depth borne out of that longing. “Christian” music tends to be too safe and down the middle for me. There’s no wrestling and it can come off as disingenuous.

also didn't allow pants with "patch pockets", back pockets that were on the outside of the pants.

My H-A educated pastor took the exact opposite view: he said women's slacks were designed without "patch pockets" so that men would be more likely to look and lust at that area of a woman's body.

He seemed to indicate male clothing. TBH, that's something that you'd see on Christopher Street down in the West Village.

stokesjokes wrote: ↑April 28th, 2021, 10:52 am I feel that. Most of my favorite music is in that space- religious themes outside of the Christian market. There’s so much more honesty and depth borne out of that longing. “Christian” music tends to be too safe and down the middle for me. There’s no wrestling and it can come off as disingenuous.

That's true. And there are several in mainstream music who are exemplary believers as well. Hayward and Lodge from the Moody Blues immediately come to mind.

Rather than burn his CDs, a friend of mine in the Late '80s gave me his Huey Lewis and Mr. Mister CDs. The irony in the last one slipped by him but not me.

Weird circle in this conversation here- apparently the Mr. Mister drummer has been the King Crimson drummer since 1994.

After a youth group video on rock music back in the day, I remember smashing some Zeppelin and Def Leppard, but could not part with my Van Halen tapes.

Is this where I thank you for the conversation and kindly invite you to listen to the actual episodes?

I also recall getting back on the bus after a football loss at the Independent Baptist Christian school I attended, to a firm lecture about all of the music that was found in players’ bags. We were told it was the reason we lost

Jonathan Carone wrote: ↑April 28th, 2021, 3:13 pm Is this where I thank you for the conversation and kindly invite you to listen to the actual episodes?

Probably so

One of my favorite Christian college stories (TN Temple) was about a senior on his graduation day went down to the flea market in Chattanooga and bought a bunch of cheap, scratched up rock music albums and took him back to his dorm room. Just when the parents started arriving, he opened his dorm window and started yelling, "I'm a senior, and it's time I got right with God on my graduation day!" And then he started throwing these old rock music albums out his second story dorm window.

All the fundy parents walking started shouting, "Amen! Glory to God! Throw that devil's music away, brother!"

These stories are comical.

Alice Cooper is an interesting case. Saw him on the Golf Channel a few years back. Talked candidly about how he was kicked out of Rob Jones U. Started a band with friends he grew up with. Got lucky with his horror themed performance art routine. Ended up in rehab for substance abuse. And then committed his life to Christ. Uses his resources to spread the Gospel and help the needy. Still performs the routine. Says his audience always knew it was a satirical act. But now he uses it as a platform to share his faith off stage.

paradox wrote: ↑April 29th, 2021, 9:09 am Alice Cooper is an interesting case. Saw him on the Golf Channel a few years back. Talked candidly about how he was kicked out of Rob Jones U. Started a band with friends he grew up with. Got lucky with his horror themed performance art routine. Ended up in rehab for substance abuse. And then committed his life to Christ. Uses his resources to spread the Gospel and help the needy. Still performs the routine. Says his audience always knew it was a satirical act. But now he uses it as a platform to share his faith off stage.

Hollywood loves those that leave the faith, they'll gladly promote them. Alice threw'em a curve coming back . Also you every notice how they turn wholesome kid stars into the opposite the day they turn 18. After your 12 year old is in love with them.

paradox wrote: ↑April 29th, 2021, 9:09 am Alice Cooper is an interesting case. Saw him on the Golf Channel a few years back. Talked candidly about how he was kicked out of Rob Jones U. Started a band with friends he grew up with. Got lucky with his horror themed performance art routine. Ended up in rehab for substance abuse. And then committed his life to Christ. Uses his resources to spread the Gospel and help the needy. Still performs the routine. Says his audience always knew it was a satirical act. But now he uses it as a platform to share his faith off stage.

Pretty interesting interview with Greg Laurie below. Not sure I completely buy that his audiences knew it was all an act though. If I recall correctly he had a song about necrophelia back in the day. Not sure you can argue that type of stuff does not damage young minds. Anyway, the interview is pretty good:

*edit* Spangler, I’m a little more cynical on the 2nd point. I think they try to sell you on the wholesome when that probably was never really the case. Once they’re 18 and free from those contractual obligations with the Mouse, we see a better picture.

You are losing me, stokesjokes. It sounds like you are talking about the Jonas Brothers or Miley Cyrus.

I was referencing Mr. Mister. Big difference. 'Welcome to the Real World' is one of my favorite mainstream albums that was Christian to the core but accepted nearly universally by secular audiences. The two big hits on that release, 'Kyrie' and 'Broken Wings' could be sung today as worship songs.

Sorry, I was referencing @TH Spangler ’s last post and somehow thought it was you!

Whoops!

Must be the baby brain

stokesjokes wrote: ↑April 29th, 2021, 10:29 am *edit* Spangler, I’m a little more cynical on the 2nd point. I think they try to sell you on the wholesome when that probably was never really the case. Once they’re 18 and free from those contractual obligations with the Mouse, we see a better picture.

Maybe so but like I said they jump at any opportunity to glorify a fall. You have to wonder what's going on in mind of a 12 year old fan. And what the mouse's motive is. $$$ or your 12 year old's mind or both.

TH Spangler wrote: ↑February 7th, 2021, 7:10 am Wow, you guys choose some strange churches. I've never experienced anything like that. I always choose solid scripture centered ones. One's that teach like Dr Jeremiah, Dr. McGee, pastor Johnathan Falwell. The ones you mention don't seem to he teaching the gospel. Sounds like some kind of false doctrine.

Well having been around TRBC since 71, I've seen some things that need to be unlearned.

So many weird gimmicks come out of this youth group subculture. The intensions may be good, but it rarely seems to translate outside of the subculture itself.

paradox wrote: ↑May 26th, 2021, 8:54 am So many weird gimmicks come out of this youth group subculture. The intensions may be good, but it rarely seems to translate outside of the subculture itself.

That’s what our entire show is about. How do we find the good from those good intentions but also shake off the bad that came from them so we can do better for our kids.

I think that the natural tendency is for parents to try to control this process. What we end up mostly doing is replicating nominally cultural Christians. Or worse yet, people afraid to live their lives and discover truth on their own. Real faith, however, listens, seeks to understand, encourages, suggests, keeps an open dialogue going, etc.

Thankfully what my youth group taught and my home taught were two different things.

The IFB subculture taught to never question leadership, or specifically anything leadership said or did. Thankfully, many a car ride home after church involved a discussion on the messages taught and an encouragement to think on them critically. Didn’t mean we always disagreed either. Just a balance.

Things aren’t right just because Preacher says so.

We covered that in the Cult of Personality/Toxic Leadership episode we did. We also talked about it in the Wise vs Right episode with how we have to give kids space to question and doubt.