Our Christian foundation is what makes our university unique. This is the place to bring prayer requests, discuss theological issues and how to become better Champions for Christ.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

By ALUmnus
Registration Days Posts
#626540
paradox wrote: May 26th, 2021, 10:04 am I think that the natural tendency is for parents to try to control this process.
It's been my experience that when it comes to youth or children's Sunday school, parents are pretty hands off and have no idea what goes on or what is taught. Youth leaders have to beg for any type of parental involvement either with the group or with discipling their own kids.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#626542
In context, we were talking about committed parents who actually care. Those you speak of seem to be part of this whole nominal casual Christian scene.

Bottom line is true Christian conversion is a matter of the heart and not a technique that can be mastered.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#626544
If I can say this, these conversations have come up with my son and I. He tells me most youth group kids are only "theists." When I ask him what he means by that he says, "they believe in God, but that's all." "They are not willing to take it further than that; and youth group is just a place for kids to go, who happen to have parents that attend church." "Most show little interest in being Christians. And there are more than a few who are hostile to the faith, embarrassed by it, and think that it's immoral." According to him, they show up in every group he's been too.
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#626545
Jonathan Carone wrote: May 26th, 2021, 10:51 am We covered that in the Cult of Personality/Toxic Leadership episode we did. We also talked about it in the Wise vs Right episode with how we have to give kids space to question and doubt.
Are you guys doing another season? I listened to the first season and thought it could go some really interesting places if you were able to continue.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#626548
stokesjokes wrote: May 26th, 2021, 2:00 pm
Jonathan Carone wrote: May 26th, 2021, 10:51 am We covered that in the Cult of Personality/Toxic Leadership episode we did. We also talked about it in the Wise vs Right episode with how we have to give kids space to question and doubt.
Are you guys doing another season? I listened to the first season and thought it could go some really interesting places if you were able to continue.
Yep! We were hoping to do some bonus episodes over the summer and then another full season September-ish. Hoping the schedules work out to make it happen. Here are some topics we're kicking around:

Mission trips as vacations
How we view our body as a temple
We sexualized everything
We glorified extravagant testimonies
We discipled kids through behavior modification
How we try to pray away depression
Cry nights at church camp
Our views on death, heaven, and hell

Those could change, but it's where we're leaning for now.
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#626549
paradox wrote: May 26th, 2021, 1:53 pm If I can say this, these conversations have come up with my son and I. He tells me most youth group kids are only "theists." When I ask him what he means by that he says, "they believe in God, but that's all." "They are not willing to take it further than that; and youth group is just a place for kids to go, who happen to have parents that attend church." "Most show little interest in being Christians. And there are more than a few who are hostile to the faith, embarrassed by it, and think that it's immoral." According to him, they show up in every group he's been too.
This sounds like conversations in my car for the last few years with my son. The only thing missing was the hipocricy of the supposed student leaders.
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#626551
Jonathan Carone wrote: May 26th, 2021, 2:08 pm
stokesjokes wrote: May 26th, 2021, 2:00 pm
Jonathan Carone wrote: May 26th, 2021, 10:51 am We covered that in the Cult of Personality/Toxic Leadership episode we did. We also talked about it in the Wise vs Right episode with how we have to give kids space to question and doubt.
Are you guys doing another season? I listened to the first season and thought it could go some really interesting places if you were able to continue.
Yep! We were hoping to do some bonus episodes over the summer and then another full season September-ish. Hoping the schedules work out to make it happen. Here are some topics we're kicking around:

Mission trips as vacations
How we view our body as a temple
We sexualized everything
We glorified extravagant testimonies
We discipled kids through behavior modification
How we try to pray away depression
Cry nights at church camp
Our views on death, heaven, and hell

Those could change, but it's where we're leaning for now.
That’s awesome! Do you guys have the budget or reach to bring in guests? Starting each episode with a youth group story hit me with cringe -y nostalgia, I wonder what some of the mini-celebs in that world think about their roles looking back.

Joshua Harris was on “The Bible for Normal People” last week, that got me thinking about it. That and Kevin Max tweeting that he’s an ex-vangelical.
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#626553
There are no shortage of washouts. From my perspective that is not the point of what SJ is producing. It is attempting to learn from the mistakes of the past and do better moving forward.

For the record, I gave been friends with Kevin since we were at LU together. He's seen truckloads of hipocricy from his perch in the Christian music world. He flirted with Catholicism during his Vegas years after the breakup of DCT. He and I have some interesting back and forths on Facebook from time to time. I'd best descibe him today as a Ragamuffin Christian with a hippie vibe. He's seen theology used as a club to beat up too many people and now prefers to downplay that as while focusing on a relationship with Jesus. He reminds me of what we saw with his former Grand Rapids neighbor Ed Dobson in his latter years.

I am down with some of those ideas, Jon. I have served in student ministry close to a decade and I am in my 50s. Watching the latest trends come and go over the past few decades has made me cringe but at times we forget what generated these ideas in the first place. Typically they were well-intentioned and borne out of isses present at the time. It is easy to look back with hindsight from a woke perspective, but just remember that the brilliance of today will inevitably be derided just a few years down the line. Not that derision isn't needed but just tempered with somee understanding.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#626554
stokesjokes wrote: May 26th, 2021, 2:31 pm
Jonathan Carone wrote: May 26th, 2021, 2:08 pm
stokesjokes wrote: May 26th, 2021, 2:00 pm

Are you guys doing another season? I listened to the first season and thought it could go some really interesting places if you were able to continue.
Yep! We were hoping to do some bonus episodes over the summer and then another full season September-ish. Hoping the schedules work out to make it happen. Here are some topics we're kicking around:

Mission trips as vacations
How we view our body as a temple
We sexualized everything
We glorified extravagant testimonies
We discipled kids through behavior modification
How we try to pray away depression
Cry nights at church camp
Our views on death, heaven, and hell

Those could change, but it's where we're leaning for now.
That’s awesome! Do you guys have the budget or reach to bring in guests? Starting each episode with a youth group story hit me with cringe -y nostalgia, I wonder what some of the mini-celebs in that world think about their roles looking back.

Joshua Harris was on “The Bible for Normal People” last week, that got me thinking about it. That and Kevin Max tweeting that he’s an ex-vangelical.
I invited Josh on but never heard back from him. We're in the same circles business wise so we've talked some, but not about any of that stuff.

I've thought about the guest route, but I really wouldn't want Josh or Kevin on there. We're not trying to break down things in a negative way. I have such a specific idea for the tone of the show that it'll be Eric and I for now. It'll keep us from growing but I'd rather do the show I'm proud of for 100 people than worry about chasing down names to be on there.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#626555
Sly Fox wrote: May 26th, 2021, 2:48 pm It is easy to look back with hindsight from a woke perspective, but just remember that the brilliance of today will inevitably be derided just a few years down the line. Not that derision isn't needed but just tempered with somee understanding.
We're not trying to be woke. I'd take that accusation as an insult in the way you said it.

We've also said multiple times on the show we're trying to do better for our kids knowing full well in 20-30 years they're going to do a podcast about all the ways we screwed up. We don't consider anything we do the brilliance of today. It's learning from the past so we can do the best we can with the information we have all while knowing we're going to mess up along the way.
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By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#626558
Jonathan Carone wrote: May 26th, 2021, 2:52 pm
stokesjokes wrote: May 26th, 2021, 2:31 pm
Jonathan Carone wrote: May 26th, 2021, 2:08 pm

Yep! We were hoping to do some bonus episodes over the summer and then another full season September-ish. Hoping the schedules work out to make it happen. Here are some topics we're kicking around:

Mission trips as vacations
How we view our body as a temple
We sexualized everything
We glorified extravagant testimonies
We discipled kids through behavior modification
How we try to pray away depression
Cry nights at church camp
Our views on death, heaven, and hell

Those could change, but it's where we're leaning for now.
That’s awesome! Do you guys have the budget or reach to bring in guests? Starting each episode with a youth group story hit me with cringe -y nostalgia, I wonder what some of the mini-celebs in that world think about their roles looking back.

Joshua Harris was on “The Bible for Normal People” last week, that got me thinking about it. That and Kevin Max tweeting that he’s an ex-vangelical.
I invited Josh on but never heard back from him. We're in the same circles business wise so we've talked some, but not about any of that stuff.

I've thought about the guest route, but I really wouldn't want Josh or Kevin on there. We're not trying to break down things in a negative way. I have such a specific idea for the tone of the show that it'll be Eric and I for now. It'll keep us from growing but I'd rather do the show I'm proud of for 100 people than worry about chasing down names to be on there.
One of the things you guys capture well is the earnestness of it all, I can see where those particular guys might mess with that vibe.
Jonathan Carone liked this
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#626566
Jonathan Carone wrote: May 26th, 2021, 2:56 pm
Sly Fox wrote: May 26th, 2021, 2:48 pm It is easy to look back with hindsight from a woke perspective, but just remember that the brilliance of today will inevitably be derided just a few years down the line. Not that derision isn't needed but just tempered with somee understanding.
We're not trying to be woke. I'd take that accusation as an insult in the way you said it.

We've also said multiple times on the show we're trying to do better for our kids knowing full well in 20-30 years they're going to do a podcast about all the ways we screwed up. We don't consider anything we do the brilliance of today. It's learning from the past so we can do the best we can with the information we have all while knowing we're going to mess up along the way.
My two cents on the current state of affairs--we often lack authenticity and don't value honesty enough. We don't like risk but faith requires it. We would seem to prefer the superficial journey of the WWJD facade to the blood, sweat, and tears of the narrow way.
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#626568
Actually I wasn't implying woke the way that you suggest, SJ. I was just referencing grading the past using today's eyes. Context matters and we can come off arrogant and superior if not careful. And to be clear I was not suggesting that is the case with your podcast.
Jonathan Carone liked this
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#626583
A couple of issues of today--why are so many people in ministry coming out of colleges and seminaries without a coherent comprehensive understanding of the Old Testament and how it relates to the New Covenant? Effective articulation here could clear up a lot of confusion for many kids. Also, why do we habitually follow trends and constantly muddle the message? Even Hank Hill was savvy enough to see through that one in a very memorable episode of King of the Hill. Again, authenticity matters, especially to youth.
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#626586
I suspect the fact that is because theology in general is so missing from student ministries across the board. Kids today are thirsting for truth and we continue to give them entertainment. Then again, it is tough to dive deeper in a setting with hundreds of kids. I get the dilemma for student pastors. And many of the student ministers I have worked alongside went to college earning business or accounting deegrees while interning summers at thir home church. While most take seminary classes once their church is picking up the nickel after graduation and employment thee truth is that for most the bigger theological concepts are intimdating to thm peersonally much less to articulate.

I currently have a nice group of 12-15 middle and high schoolers meeeting in our home on Thursday evenings getting deeper. But I recognizee as we grow that will be tougher to pull off. So I am not trying to be judgemental. I get it.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#626592
That thirst will always be there. Pete Townsend, says that the song Baba O'Riley is a philosophical conclusion of entertainment replacing God with this mass teenage wasteland staring back at him. In the quiet moments, though, people know that they are thirty. Entertainment can't cure that.

My garage was converted into a game room several years ago. My kids have entertained many friends in there. Some of the most interesting feedback that I've received involves the honest dialogue that occurs between teenagers. Even kids growing up in atheist or muslim homes, when they're honest, confess things about feeling drawn to Christ, and not knowing quite why. So, it's there. That need is inside us all.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#626613
All valid points. It would be comical if it wasn't so true.

So, I'll ask again. How is it possible to come out of seminaries or other ministry programs, unable to make sense of the Old Testament? It's like we come out of these places hamstrung.
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#626615
paradox wrote: May 27th, 2021, 8:44 am why do we habitually follow trends and constantly muddle the message?
Desire for relevance? When it goes to far is when it becomes a primary desire to entertain.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#626618
Making sense of your faith in the most current cultural context falls into that relevance category. That's valid. The kind of so-called "relevance" that seems to be pervasive involves a desire to be something that we're not. A wannabe mentality. Thus, we are reduced to dressing-up the gospel in fancy clothes, creating unnecessary obstacles, for everyone, including ourselves.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#626681
This has been the situation ever since the discovery of the homophobic Chick Fila sandwich and the infamous gay wedding cake dilemma.
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By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#626709
paradox wrote: May 28th, 2021, 8:00 pm This has been the situation ever since the discovery of the homophobic Chick Fila sandwich and the infamous gay wedding cake dilemma.
Chicken sandwich makers, bakers, and youth camp leaders will all be canceled soon. They're deplorable. :lol:
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