A Sea Of Red

thepostman wrote: ↑June 29th, 2020, 2:06 pm Well TH is going to condemn you to hell now.

If that's the case then there's a lot of mainline Christian traditions that would be considered "heretical".

Articles like this are interesting if you believe there will BE a rapture.

One day, Turkey could even aim its sights at Jerusalem. The speech about Hagia Sophia clearly indicated this is on the agenda in the future.

https://m.jpost.com/middle-east/turkey- ... que-634700

Turkey attack Israel, Turkey in Syria? I read that might be a possibility somewhere else

TH Spangler wrote:Articles like this are interesting if you believe there will BE a rapture.

One day, Turkey could even aim its sights at Jerusalem. The speech about Hagia Sophia clearly indicated this is on the agenda in the future.

https://m.jpost.com/middle-east/turkey- ... que-634700

Turkey attack Israel, Turkey in Syria? I read that might be a possibility somewhere else

You do realize the Hagia Sophia is in Istanbul (not Constantinople), not Jerusalem, correct?

I thought she was on Law and Order?

I saw this tweet this morning. It made me laugh and instantly thought about this thread.

thepostman wrote:I saw this tweet this morning. It made me laugh and instantly thought about this thread.

How dare you sir! As a new American who made the decision on July 5'th to give my life to America after a moving patriotic concert at church, I resent the bashing of new Americans everywhere!

thepostman wrote: ↑July 14th, 2020, 4:26 pm I saw this tweet this morning. It made me laugh and instantly thought about this thread.

What's amazing to me is Israel's biggest supporter and top military power has NO roll in endtime prophecy.

Which, can be credibly argued, is why they are so viciously attacked by all nations

Purple Haize wrote: ↑July 14th, 2020, 8:32 pm Which, can be credibly argued, is why they are so viciously attacked by all nations

End time, three maybe four. Iran, Turkey and Russia. The rest only protest the aggression.

No one can comprehend what goes on under the sun.
Skip the anxiety which we all are told is no good and just pray for grace and peace.

Been in a PCA church since I was saved in the early 80"s. Denomination is mostly amillennial. Personally, I am posttrib. I comprehend the bible teaching that Christ will use endtime events to winnow the visible church so as to purify it before the resurrection. Huge difference between seven years of tribulation vs. the wrath of God that follows afterwards. Church was never promised deliverence from tribulation. Actually, quite the opposite.

LUDad wrote: ↑July 26th, 2020, 11:51 pm Been in a PCA church since I was saved in the early 80"s. Denomination is mostly amillennial. Personally, I am posttrib. I comprehend the bible teaching that Christ will use endtime events to winnow the visible church so as to purify it before the resurrection. Huge difference between seven years of tribulation vs. the wrath of God that follows afterwards. Church was never promised deliverence from tribulation. Actually, quite the opposite.

That company started that in 2017 and it was pretty controversial

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/25/tech ... oyees.html

Some states have even moved towards regulating it/outlawing it

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/state ... 2020-02-03

Now of course the belief among many is microchipping is the mark of the beast but that is certianly arguable but I hate needles and can't imagine wanting something implanted in your skin.

thepostman wrote: ↑July 27th, 2020, 8:04 am That company started that in 2017 and it was pretty controversial

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/25/tech ... oyees.html

Some states have even moved towards regulating it/outlawing it

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/state ... 2020-02-03

Now of course the belief among many is microchipping is the mark of the beast but that is certianly arguable but I hate needles and can't imagine wanting something implanted in your skin.

Without the mark you will not be able buy, sell or borrow. Just run and hide

TH Spangler wrote: ↑July 27th, 2020, 6:25 am

LUDad wrote: ↑July 26th, 2020, 11:51 pm Been in a PCA church since I was saved in the early 80"s. Denomination is mostly amillennial. Personally, I am posttrib. I comprehend the bible teaching that Christ will use endtime events to winnow the visible church so as to purify it before the resurrection. Huge difference between seven years of tribulation vs. the wrath of God that follows afterwards. Church was never promised deliverence from tribulation. Actually, quite the opposite.

That certainty is a possibility. However, many Reformers believed the two beasts of Rev. 13 represented a dual "anti" christ. They were persecuted by both the Caliphate & the Catholic Church. The mark of the beast was the "sign" of the covenant. Either, the mark applied to the forehead of the one being baptised or the reception of the communion bread received in the right hand from the Catholic priest. I could envision a replay of this at the endtime. Likewise, the 1st century Church was caught between two entities; the Romans and apostate Judaism.

Best. Thread. Ever.

(grabs popcorn)

When it comes to end time prophecy I like to focus on Gods relationship with his chosen bloodline, the Jew.

TH Spangler wrote: ↑July 28th, 2020, 5:36 am When it comes to end time prophecy I like to focus on Gods relationship with his chosen bloodline, the Jew.

Well that's where your theology falls apart. Through Jesus, we are shown God's chosen people are anyone and everyone who will accept his son as their savior. You're using Old Testament covenantal theology to apply to a New Testament prophecy when we're living under a new covenant where the old covenants have been fulfilled.

As for the mark of the beast, the idea that it will be a physical mark on the hand or the head takes the scripture out of the context of the entire Bible. It's something meant to scare people and that has made end times teachers a crap ton of money.

This is a great article on why the mark of the beast likely isn't anything the Left Behind books made us think it will be.

I base all my end times beliefs on this movie and it’s sequels! Left Behind is like The Living Bible in comparison

Jonathan Carone wrote: ↑July 28th, 2020, 9:33 am

TH Spangler wrote: ↑July 28th, 2020, 5:36 am When it comes to end time prophecy I like to focus on Gods relationship with his chosen bloodline, the Jew.

Well that's where your theology falls apart. Through Jesus, we are shown God's chosen people are anyone and everyone who will accept his son as their savior. You're using Old Testament covenantal theology to apply to a New Testament prophecy when we're living under a new covenant where the old covenants have been fulfilled.

As for the mark of the beast, the idea that it will be a physical mark on the hand or the head takes the scripture out of the context of the entire Bible. It's something meant to scare people and that has made end times teachers a crap ton of money.

This is a great article on why the mark of the beast likely isn't anything the Left Behind books made us think it will be.

The Bible says there will be terrible conflict in Israel during the end times. That is why the time period is known as the Tribulation, the Great Tribulation, and the “time of Jacob’s trouble”. Here is what the Bible says about Israel in the end times:

There will be a mass return of Jews to the land of Israel (Deuteronomy 30:3; Isaiah 43:6; Ezekiel 34:11-13; 36:24; 37:1-14).

The Antichrist will make a 7-year covenant of "peace" with Israel (Isaiah 28:18; Daniel 9:27).

The temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem (Daniel 9:27; Matthew 24:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4; Revelation 11:1).

The Antichrist will break his covenant with Israel, and worldwide persecution of Israel will result (Daniel 9:27; 12:1, 11; Zechariah 11:16; Matthew 24:15, 21; Revelation 12:13). Israel will be invaded (Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

Israel will finally recognize Jesus as their Messiah (Zechariah 12:10). Israel will be regenerated, restored, and regathered (Jeremiah 33:8; Ezekiel 11:17; Romans 11:26).

What is the mark of the beast?
https://www.gotquestions.org/mark-beast.html

"What are the covenants in the Bible?"
https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-covenants.html

That movie gave my sister legit nightmares and is one of the biggest reasons she rejected Christianity.

Jonathan Carone wrote: ↑July 28th, 2020, 10:25 am That movie gave my sister legit nightmares and is one of the biggest reasons she rejected Christianity.

The guillotine scene was pretty intense for the age group this movie was shown to

Heck, I've had reoccurring nightmares about tornados since watching the Wizard of Oz at age 5. 🌪

TH Spangler: The scriptures you reference concerning the temple of God can refer to either (1) the first century Jewish Temple, an end-time Jewish Temple (3) the body of Christian believers (1 Cor. 3:16). You are stipulating that all these texts reference an endtime temple. I would disagree.

Have you considered that Dan. 27 is simply recapitulating verse 26? I would suggest that verse 26 speaks of the 3.5 years of Christ's public ministry. At the end of his ministry he was cut-off or crucified. Assuming he was crucified at Passover in 30 AD as attested to by many non Catholic scholars, the verse then jumps to Passover 70 AD when Titus surrounded Jerusalem to begin his siege of the city. Precisely three and one half years earlier, the Jews repealed the Roman General, Cestius Gallus and his Roman army from Jerusalem in an astonishing defeat. The Jews then dwelt in the security of the city thinking they were invincible (see Rev. 12:6). But the wrath of God was simply being stored for the last half of Daniel's Seventieth Week for the end in 70 AD. Another 40 year wilderness experience?

Anyway, Dan. 9:27 simply recapitulates verse 26. The "he" in verse 27 is Christ, He makes a "firm" covenant with the Jews for 3.5 years. Instead of accepting him as Messiah, they crucified him (in other words, Christ's Atonement--in principle--put a stop to sacrifice and grain offerings in the Jewish Temple). The actual stoppage came in 70 AD when Titus desolated the physical temple in Jerusalem. Thus, both verses speaks of Daniel's 70th Week as two 3 1/2 year periods separated by a gap of time so a to make it a 40 year program.

I would strongly suggest that the Revelation tells the above story of this first century fulfillment of Daniel's 70th Week and takes it one step further. It also reveals a second (end-time) fulfillment of this same 40 year period. A recapitulation, so to speak, that follows the outline provided by Daniel 9:26-27.

OK, you guys can take me off to the funny farm now

Not going to act like a know it all and tell you your "theology is flawed", like some..one here . A lot will be unclear until it unfolds. Being a pre tribulation rapture guy I probably haven't focused on the tribulation like I should. For the past decade I have become very comfortable with the answers I find at Got Questions. I was just looking at these links and some other things you mentioned. Love this resource.

https://www.gotquestions.org/posttribulationism.html

https://www.gotquestions.org/pretribulationism.html