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#513568
Last month the band King's Kaleidoscope released their new album. You may or may not know who they are. They were one of the bands that formed out of Mars Hill Church in Seattle. They entered the worship/Christian music scene in 2011/2012 with a series of hymn covers that got a lot of play in modern churches. They then released one of the best Christian albums of 2014 with their first full length.

Their latest album is drawing both criticism and praise and is starting what I believe to be a really interesting conversation. It's getting reaction because the lyrics include the f-word twice. There's also an edited version where the lyrics are changed but the fact that a leading Christian band released an explicit song is overshadowing everything. Here's what the writer/lead singer said about the song:
Well, first I would say I think that for people who haven't actually listened to the record, or listened to that song, just listen to those last three songs in a row, and I think that it will be self-explanatory in terms of what is going on there. The short answer is, that song comes from the deepest part of my gut and my being, and the fear that I face throughout my life - I've had really severe anxiety disorder my whole life, and that's been a major part of my struggle and story. That song is about the fear of running from God or that God will turn his back on me and I will end up apart from him in hell. And the actual lyric is something that is from my journal - I don't know how everyone else has conversations with God, but I have very vulnerable conversations, and God already knows how afraid I am. I usually figure it's good for me to pour out my soul to him, and that's what that song is.

The choice to keep that original version, which is straight from off the top of my head, really, as well as the edited one... It took me a long time, and I really sought counsel and had a lot of conversations with pastor friends of mine and family. At the end of the day, that song is not going to impact somebody who has never felt that way anyways. So that song is there for people who have felt like me. And I know fear and Satan and death - the voice of all of that is not poetic, it's not thoughtful, it's not patient. It's aggressive and demanding and terrifying. And that's what came out of my heart because that's what I was hearing, and so that's what I chose to leave it in the song. It was to say, look, this is the reality of how we feel sometimes, and this is the reality of how God responds to that. And I just want people to know that that is life. It is freaking scary, and God talks to that and he speaks to us right where we are.

At the same time, I know other people have different convictions theologically on language - obviously I don't have that conviction, otherwise I wouldn't have released it. [laughs] But I really respect that, and I know some people want to just buy the CD and be able to play it in their car without their kids hearing it. Some people have told me, "I don't care if my kids listen to that song at all" - the unedited version. But because I respect people, I want to have a different version for them, and that song - it's not really about that word, it's about the meaning and the bigger context, and I think if anything I'm trying to be vulnerable and have different types of people be able to engage with that song in a powerful way.

So I came to my label and said, "Okay, I think that I want to release a version of a song with an f-bomb in it. I want to do it in the most respectful way possible." [laughs] They were like, "What in the world?" Because most artists are trying to do shock jock or something, but there's none of that vibe for me. I'd say, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about it or convince anyone of anything. I'm just trying to be honest and vulnerable. I think that's important in art, and important as a Christian. If there's any place that I can share my story and my testimony for what it really is, it should be the church at large. And that's what I'm doing.
If you want to hear the explicit version, you can listen to it here.

I think I know where I land on this song because we've dealt with it with other artists before, but I'd love to hear your opinion on it. Here are the questions I'd start with:

1) Should there be a place in the Christian bubble for us to share our most authentic feelings?

2) Is that place through music?

3) Does this song discredit the rest of the band's music?
By ALUmnus
Registration Days Posts
#513585
I have a lot of thoughts on this, but here are just a few short ones.
Authenticity and transparency are not virtues, they're not fruits of the Spirit, but they've been lionized in our modern secular culture. This is secularism creeping into the church. And a quick glance at the fruit of the Spirit will show the "authenticity" that Mr. Kaleidoscope exhibits is actually poor judgement. He also has a very subjective view of "convictions on language". Considering the church he springs from and the pastor he sat under, it's hardly surprising.

Again, there's lots more to be said, and I didn't address your three questions, but none of this is new.

Edit: Not sure why it popped up today, but this article from two years ago speaks well to the topic:
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/arti ... holiness-2
Last edited by ALUmnus on July 27th, 2016, 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By ECUnited
Registration Days Posts
#513673
Ok, I'll bite and actually give my opinions on Jon's 3 questions.

1) Should there be a place in the Christian bubble for us to share our most authentic feelings?
Absolutely. Too many of us (myself included) put on a 'mask' because we have this mis-guided notion that we have to be 'perfect', or if not perfect, then 'respectable' in the eyes of the church. Of all places where we should be the most vulnerable is within the Christian bubble. However, that doesn't mean we need to be vulnerable with everybody. That level of vulnerability probably should come out in close-knit groups (community groups - maybe, accountability partners - sure, one-on-one with pastor/elder)

2) Is that place through music?
It can come through music, but not at the degree of dropping f-bombs. Again, music is a more public, wide-reaching platform. I will say it doesn't surprise me that the songwriter, coming out of Mars Hill felt 'free' enough to use the f-bomb, but that's all I'm going to say about that. The record company should have put their foot down and said 'no', so I blame them just as much for that coming out in recorded form. Again, my opinion, is that level of vulnerability is for a less-public venue. If you and I are having coffee or a counseling session and those words come out, I personally, am not going to be shocked (my wife on the other hand would probably pass out), but I'm going to cringe if you do it in a more open setting. I understand frustration and some folks need to curse to get their point across, I've even done it myself sometimes, but personally, there are other ways to express yourself without going 'nuclear' (if you see cursing as a 'nuclear' option). In times like this my mind just goes back to Philipians 4:8 "Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."

3) Does this song discredit the rest of the band's music?
Not necessarily, but I guess that depends on if they are still passing themselves off as a 'Christian' band. U2 has 'Christian' messages in their songs, but let's be real, as much as I like them, I don't consider them a true 'Christian' band. Same with Lifehouse and some others. Now if Third Day was to drop a f-bomb in one of their songs, I would be going, "what's going on?" However if Mac Powell wanted to in a solo album and drop a curse word, I guess that's his right, but because he's such a well-known member of Third Day, I think it would impact their music, just because of their popularity. In this case, does that give them more 'liberty' than Mac Powell or somebody more 'famous', absolutely not, but it wouldn't necessarily discredit their previous work, but it might cast a shadow on their future music.

My final thoughts on the overall climate of today's 'Christian' culture is that we have become way too familiar with the ways of the world in an effort to have the world embrace us. I'm not sure that's what Jesus envisioned when he told the disciples that the world would hate them. I think we have become more concerned with how the world views us than how God views us, and if I'm pointing fingers at anyone, I have four more pointing back at me. I know this is something I've been struggling with lately, so how's that for vulnerability?
By ALUmnus
Registration Days Posts
#513675
Jonathan Carone wrote: 1) Should there be a place in the Christian bubble for us to share our most authentic feelings?

2) Is that place through music?

3) Does this song discredit the rest of the band's music?
1. This place in the Christian bubble is the church. It's in your local body of brothers and sisters in Christ with whom you fellowship, worship, discipline, confess & repent, bear each others' burdens, disciple, and work for the kingdom. Honestly, that's where it is, and if it's not in your church... First ask yourself why, then ask your pastors or elders why, and then seriously consider if you need to leave an unhealthy church. Share your most authentic feelings with those who are accountable for you, not to a consumer audience.

2. Sure, but as a Christian, it ought to also be honoring to God and faithful to His word.

3. I haven't listened to this song, but that's a question I've thought about a lot and it's not an easy one to answer. Take Ray Boltz. He has written some outstanding songs, some of the most-sung "special music" songs ever heard in the church. Several years ago he left his wife and children to live with his male lover. So then, what do we do with his music? The way songs are written and composed these days, they could EASILY be written by unbelievers (and I don't doubt that many are). So are believers to use them? That can make for some really long, but really fruitful, conversations.
I personally have a hard time listening to some music when I distrust the artist. This isn't universal at all, but it does change the way I view their work, and whether or not I want to share and support it. But, in the spirit of transparency, I'm very inconsistent in this.
#513888
I ended up getting slammed last week so I was never able to come back and answer the questions myself.

1) Should there be a place in the Christian bubble for us to share our most authentic feelings?

I totally get what ALUmnus is saying here and he's not wrong. For each of us personally, the local church is where that place is.

However, I wish there was a place where Christian leaders could share some of these feelings though. For me, it speaks volumes when some of the people I look up to in Christianity (leaders of the faith if you will) are willing/able to show that they deal with some of the same things I deal with. (Also - the funny haha versions of this in a sermon to make a point don't count. I'm talking about the real, not the polished.) When I see the highlights of a pastor/leader's life, I feel like I could never be what they are. But when they pull back the veil, I'm reminded we're all the same but it's our trust in Jesus that sets us apart.

The problem with that place is that there are always non-Christians looking in at us. There are people young in their faith who could be confused depending on the topic. There are also Christians willing to snipe at anything less than perfection out of our leaders. The downsides and dangers of doing this are too real for it to happen regularly.

2) Is that place through music?

I think it can be, but not in this way. Even When It Hurts by Hillsong United is a perfect example of this. One of the verses says

Even when the fight seems lost
I'll praise You
Even when it hurts like hell
I'll praise You
Even when it makes no sense to sing
Louder then I'll sing Your praise

That's a powerful, authentic statement to say/sing. It's representative of the Psalms and other passages in the Bible. The phrase "hurts like hell" may have rubbed some the wrong way (and I know churches who have changed the lyric) but it's not over the top offensive.

With that said, this song in question here is one of my favorite songs currently. Because I've been there, the language doesn't bother me personally and makes the song more real. I don't think they should've released it in the explicit form, but I personally love it.

3) Does this song discredit the rest of the band's music?

I don't think so. The writer of Come Thou Fount completely left his faith for years and churches still sang the hymns he wrote. God can use anything, even the lyrics of people who make mistakes, to reach people. To throw the baby out with the bathwater is a little much.
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#513893
I get where you are coming from in this discussion, Jon. There is some validity to being open about our humanity. The challenge comes when being authentic/transparent become an impediment to the Gospel. I'm not saying that is the case here although it most certainly could be.

This seems like a great discussion of what Philippians 4:8 really means. I was going to bring up that verse but ECUnited beat me to it. Here's a little context on that verse that I thinks adds to the discussion:
ESV wrote:5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand; 6 do not be anxious about anything, sbut in everything by prayer and supplication twith thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. 7 And the peace of God, vwhich surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.
For the record, I love these threads.
#513899
Sly Fox wrote:There is some validity to being open about our humanity. The challenge comes when being authentic/transparent become an impediment to the Gospel.
This is what it all boils down to. And unfortunately, due to cultural standards/expectations and past religious scandals, showing a ton of humanity gets too close to perceived hypocrisy for most leaders.
By ALUmnus
Registration Days Posts
#513908
Jonathan Carone wrote:However, I wish there was a place where Christian leaders could share some of these feelings though. For me, it speaks volumes when some of the people I look up to in Christianity (leaders of the faith if you will) are willing/able to show that they deal with some of the same things I deal with. (Also - the funny haha versions of this in a sermon to make a point don't count. I'm talking about the real, not the polished.) When I see the highlights of a pastor/leader's life, I feel like I could never be what they are. But when they pull back the veil, I'm reminded we're all the same but it's our trust in Jesus that sets us apart.
The sad truth is, this doesn't have to be the case. I think what plays a huge part in this happening is the current model of church government that most churches utilize these days. I know that sounds really boring, but it makes a difference. When a church is pastor-led, rather than elder-led, isolation at the "top" becomes inevitable. I'm not throwing stones, my church of 16 years is pastor-led. And churches of all stripes have this problem, Presbyterian included. But a plurality of Biblically-qualified elders helps to prevent what you're talking about.
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