Our Christian foundation is what makes our university unique. This is the place to bring prayer requests, discuss theological issues and how to become better Champions for Christ.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

By ALUmnus
Registration Days Posts
#477187
Someone's been listening to/reading Justin Lee. Or is that just the stock joke for everyone who thinks orthodox Christians are all hypocrites.
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#477191
ALUmnus wrote:Someone's been listening to/reading Justin Lee. Or is that just the stock joke for everyone who thinks orthodox Christians are all hypocrites.
Actually Justin Lee is a personal friend of mine, but I have not read any of his books. However, he's not the person I originally heard that quote from. It does, however, fit with the person who said many young-earth creationists call other viewpoints heresy.

I'm surprised you'd read/listen to him, last time I posted something of his on here you referred to him as "amateur."
By ALUmnus
Registration Days Posts
#477342
He is. I heard him open a debate with that joke. He was ill-prepared to debate using reason and logic. His argumentation was pretty much just emotional pleading.
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#477352
Regardless of your opinion of him, the joke does have some truth in it (truthfully when I first heard it, you're the first person I thought of). I haven't heard him debate, so I can't refute your assertions on that one time you heard him.
By phoenix
Registration Days Posts
#479903
ALUmnus wrote:Someone's been listening to/reading Justin Lee. Or is that just the stock joke for everyone who thinks orthodox Christians are all hypocrites.
It's an old joke, and one I've used from the pulpit to illustrate the fact that we are willing to condemn others for the smallest and most insignificant reasons. IIRC, I heard it first from a speaker at Liberty ....

And to get back on track, God creating the world with an illusion of age just seems too much like deception to me. "Let's make it look like it's really, really old. That'll mess with 'em for years!" From the early church to now, many good, orthodox Christian people have thought the universe was old.
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By NotAJerry
Registration Days Posts
#483875
Random appearance just to suggest a couple of things for people to read.

The Lost World of Genesis One -- John Walton
Genesis Unbound -- John Sailhamer

Two guys who do a pretty good job of showing that the Hebrew in Genesis 1 is nowhere near as definite as the current YEC position posits it to be. Another thing you may want to do is try to find someone prior to Ellen G White who claimed the six literal day viewpoint.
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#483901
Here's the thing (and I don't do a lot of religious/theological discussions)...

God is omnipotent and operates beyond our human concept of time and space. So, as a result, God, when he created the earth, could potentially have created fully grown plants and animals, and created Adam and Eve as fully developed human beings as well.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#483921
BJWilliams wrote:Here's the thing (and I don't do a lot of religious/theological discussions)...

God is omnipotent and operates beyond our human concept of time and space. So, as a result, God, when he created the earth, could potentially have created fully grown plants and animals, and created Adam and Eve as fully developed human beings as well.
He could have done lots of things. So why get hung up on 6 literal days?
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#483933
I don't know (like I said, I don't generally do religious/theological discussions...or political for that matter), As I said, God can operate any way he sees fit, because he is outside of time and space.

That said, we never really will know the true answer until we get to the other side of glory.
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By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#483942
But as long as the conversation is civil there is nothing wrong with talking about it. Many thing won't be known until we either meet Jesus or he returns. It doesn't mean we shouldn't at least talk about these things.
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#483995
I agree postie. I'm just saying that we can go back and forth on this from now til the Rapture, but will never really know the whole truth on the matter on this side of the universe
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#483996
Civility is the key though. YEC tend to show less of it.
By ALUmnus
Registration Days Posts
#483997
NotAJerry wrote:Random appearance just to suggest a couple of things for people to read.

The Lost World of Genesis One -- John Walton
Genesis Unbound -- John Sailhamer

Two guys who do a pretty good job of showing that the Hebrew in Genesis 1 is nowhere near as definite as the current YEC position posits it to be. Another thing you may want to do is try to find someone prior to Ellen G White who claimed the six literal day viewpoint.
Most of the Reformers, actually. And there was this dude named Moses....if you wanted to go waaaayyy back.
By ALUmnus
Registration Days Posts
#483998
ATrain wrote:Civility is the key though. YEC tend to show less of it.
I've actually seen mostly the opposite. YECers can let their conviction get out of hand, for sure, but they are shown nothing but disdain and disrespect. And their arguments are typically dismissed with no debate. In turn, the young-earthers can get pretty defensive. And then of course there are some who label everyone who disagrees as an infidel, but you'll always have that.
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#484003
ALUmnus wrote:
ATrain wrote:Civility is the key though. YEC tend to show less of it.
I've actually seen mostly the opposite. YECers can let their conviction get out of hand, for sure, but they are shown nothing but disdain and disrespect. And their arguments are typically dismissed with no debate. In turn, the young-earthers can get pretty defensive. And then of course there are some who label everyone who disagrees as an infidel, but you'll always have that.
Its the YEC'ers of the last type who seem to have the loudest voices. I have seen many evolutionist and others try and show grace and a "we will agree to disagree and here's why," type attitudes only to be shouted down by YEC'ers about being infidels. This applies to just about any theological debate, from creationism in Genesis to the End Times in Revelation.
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#484016
ATrain wrote:I have seen many evolutionist and others try and show grace ...
You have? Where have those folks been hiding?
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By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#484018
I think it is fair to say both sides of this have shown complete lack of civility to the other side. If you believe otherwise you are eight naive or blinded by your particular view.
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#484019
Sly Fox wrote:
ATrain wrote:I have seen many evolutionist and others try and show grace ...
You have? Where have those folks been hiding?
Not in Texas.

And yes Postman, I agree that evolutionists and those who subscribe to other theories about creationism can and have been very condescending at times. Lately though I've just seen more of the "infidel," rhetoric than anything else.
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By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#484026
I will say this, when I see creationist who claim to be Christians being so nasty towards evolutionist I cringe. The is nothing wrong with debating the individuals and completely disagreeing but the personal attacks floating around on social media by those who claim Christ is disheartening. When I read crap spewed by evolutionist and personal attacks and roll my eyes but they don't know Christ so it shouldn't be surprising.
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By NotAJerry
Registration Days Posts
#484061
ALUmnus wrote:
NotAJerry wrote:Random appearance just to suggest a couple of things for people to read.

The Lost World of Genesis One -- John Walton
Genesis Unbound -- John Sailhamer

Two guys who do a pretty good job of showing that the Hebrew in Genesis 1 is nowhere near as definite as the current YEC position posits it to be. Another thing you may want to do is try to find someone prior to Ellen G White who claimed the six literal day viewpoint.
Most of the Reformers, actually. And there was this dude named Moses....if you wanted to go waaaayyy back.
And here's the typical arrogant, condescending, YEC tripe. I'm guessing you haven't read a word of either book listed above.
By flamehunter
Registration Days Posts
#484065
NotAJerry wrote:
ALUmnus wrote:
NotAJerry wrote:Random appearance just to suggest a couple of things for people to read.

The Lost World of Genesis One -- John Walton
Genesis Unbound -- John Sailhamer

Two guys who do a pretty good job of showing that the Hebrew in Genesis 1 is nowhere near as definite as the current YEC position posits it to be. Another thing you may want to do is try to find someone prior to Ellen G White who claimed the six literal day viewpoint.
Most of the Reformers, actually. And there was this dude named Moses....if you wanted to go waaaayyy back.
And here's the typical arrogant, condescending, YEC tripe. I'm guessing you haven't read a word of either book listed above.
He answered your challenge and you attack the tone and not the substance. Now who's arrogant and condescending?
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#484068
I'm not sure Moses actually said 6 Days.
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#484070
Purple Haize wrote:I'm not sure Moses actually said 6 Days.
I believe he counted out 7. However, keep in mind he was also relying on a several-centuries/millenia old game of telephone between the time the events in Genesis occurred and when he put words to paper/parchment/papyrus/stone/whatever the substance was.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#484071
ATrain wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:I'm not sure Moses actually said 6 Days.
I believe he counted out 7. However, keep in mind he was also relying on a several-centuries/millenia old game of telephone between the time the events in Genesis occurred and when he put words to paper/parchment/papyrus/stone/whatever the substance was.
I didn't count The Almighty's taking a PTO day!
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#484072
Purple Haize wrote:
ATrain wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:I'm not sure Moses actually said 6 Days.
I believe he counted out 7. However, keep in mind he was also relying on a several-centuries/millenia old game of telephone between the time the events in Genesis occurred and when he put words to paper/parchment/papyrus/stone/whatever the substance was.
I didn't count The Almighty's taking a PTO day!
No, but many creationists of all types (young earth, day age, gap, etc...) do :P
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