A Sea Of Red

Tell me again why we're giving this guy a platform to speak to the student body?

http://www.baptisttwentyone.com/2014/03 ... on-church/

This latest stuff is just a recent bit of a growing history with this guy. But something tells me his celebrity will outshine any real concerns someone might have. At least, that's what LU has shown us in the past.

What is your problem with letting him speak? Should we only allow those with whom we (mostly) agree speak?

JK37 wrote:What is your problem with letting him speak? Should we only allow those with whom we (mostly) agree speak?

How do you think they will introduce him to the students?

Author and pastor.

Exactly...no reason to politicize the intro or anything...simply author and pastor.

I don't get upset at people speaking at convo very often because it is clearly more than just a "church service" but this guy has no business being there and his church is nearly everything about church I have grown to hate. I realize Liberty does this kind of thing all the time, but to me this is a difference set of circumstances. I really should just stop typing now...

Ah yes, we should only allow pastors who preach only in accordance with our doctrine/comfortably to speak at convo. We should never bring in people who we disagree with or who might not condemn the things that we condemn. Oh, also, we should never bring in speakers who have sinned before.

I swear, the guy is a dynamic speaker. He's done a fabulous job pastoring a church in a very lost area. Has he made mistakes? Yeah, but not every pastor is God, right? Honestly, I love that Liberty brings in speakers from all walks of life. Catholics, Presbyterians, Jews, businessmen/women, athletes...etc. Convo isn't supposed to be church for a week. In my time at school, I've had the opportunity to see Ben Stein, Donald Trump, the Duggars, Michael Franzese and a bunch of other great speakers. It wasn't like they were coming into to teach a philosophy class. They were just simply brought in to speak. NO other school provides this opportunity.

VAGolf wrote:Ah yes, we should only allow pastors who preach only in accordance with our doctrine/comfortably to speak at convo. We should never bring in people who we disagree with or who might not condemn the things that we condemn. Oh, also, we should never bring in speakers who have sinned before.

I swear, the guy is a dynamic speaker. He's done a fabulous job pastoring a church in a very lost area. Has he made mistakes? Yeah, but not every pastor is God, right? Honestly, I love that Liberty brings in speakers from all walks of life. Catholics, Presbyterians, Jews, businessmen/women, athletes...etc. Convo isn't supposed to be church for a week. In my time at school, I've had the opportunity to see Ben Stein, Donald Trump, the Duggars, Michael Franzese and a bunch of other great speakers. It wasn't like they were coming into to teach a philosophy class. They were just simply brought in to speak. NO other school provides this opportunity.

Throw in Lecrae, James Brown from Fox/CBS, Dinesh D'Souza, the guy from Undercover Boss and the creator of Survivor and any number of others from all walks of life and its the best part of the LU experience

I get that, I really do. I just believe that certain things should be avoided but whatever. I have never seen eye to eye with liberty on everything, and I know this won't be the last time I disagree. Take the reps and don't go to convo...I did that a time or two

I'm not a huge fan of what he's doing from a Christian leadership perspective and how his church is required to "honor" him and all of that, but it can't be denied that he is a great communicator. He has a new book out that I think could have a huge impact on college kids and if he speaks on something from that, I have no problem with him speaking. I would never consider working at or being a member at Elevation, but I'd listen to a sermon from Furtick. Some people can be great preachers but bad pastors.

I agree with SJ in this instance. Count me among those who have serious concerns with his views on pastoral authority. Jesus made very clear to Peter the concept of servanthood being the prime directive for pastors. That seems to be a concept that a number of megachurch pastors find themselves struggling to apply. I would like to see Furtick follow the Francis Chan path and step away from his pastoral role to focus on his writing for which he clearly has some acumen.

But if he is invited to speak on a particular topic and he can inspire the student body then I don't have a huge issue. I do believe we have others out there who could be invited without the baggage that could have similar results.

Sly Fox wrote:I agree with SJ in this instance. Count me among those who have serious concerns with his views on pastoral authority. Jesus made very clear to Peter the concept of servanthood being the prime directive for pastors. That seems to be a concept that a number of megachurch pastors find themselves struggling to apply. I would like to see Furtick follow the Francis Chan path and step away from his pastoral role to focus on his writing for which he clearly has some acumen.

But if he is invited to speak on a particular topic and he can inspire the student body then I don't have a huge issue. I do believe we have others out there who could be invited without the baggage that could have similar results.

The Pope????

Ok, in all seriousness, I do have issues with the way things are done at that church. However, I think SJ's viewpoint represents how I see this.

So, all things considered, we should be promoting this guy's book, to college students? And, all things considered, the only factor that matters is his speaking ability? Huh, sounds pretty shallow to me. But, maybe that's where we are.

ALUmnus wrote:So, all things considered, we should be promoting this guy's book, to college students? And, all things considered, the only factor that matters is his speaking ability? Huh, sounds pretty shallow to me. But, maybe that's where we are.

Convo isn't church. He isn't coming to lead our student body, he's coming to speak to them.

VAGolf wrote:

ALUmnus wrote:So, all things considered, we should be promoting this guy's book, to college students? And, all things considered, the only factor that matters is his speaking ability? Huh, sounds pretty shallow to me. But, maybe that's where we are.

Convo isn't church. He isn't coming to lead our student body, he's coming to speak to them.

I don't see how that changes or makes any difference to what I said.

I hold those who claim to be Christians to a higher standard that come in to speak than the non-Christian speakers that come in to speak to the student body. I realize he is a decent writer but it doesn't take away the borderline blasphemous way he goes about leading his church.

Again, this isn't the first time I disagreed with a Liberty decision and it won't be the last.

ALUmnus wrote:

VAGolf wrote:

ALUmnus wrote:So, all things considered, we should be promoting this guy's book, to college students? And, all things considered, the only factor that matters is his speaking ability? Huh, sounds pretty shallow to me. But, maybe that's where we are.

Convo isn't church. He isn't coming to lead our student body, he's coming to speak to them.

I don't see how that changes or makes any difference to what I said.

Because in a church, you wouldn't want to bring in someone who you philosophically disagree with or a person with whom you have problems. However, convo is just an event meant to expose the students to all sorts of speakers and cultures. We've brought in Ben Stein (Jewish), Donald Trump (CEO), Michael Franzese (former mafia member), James Brown (CBS announcer), Michelle Bachman (politician) and Willie Robertson (CEO). It's not a church. We're bringing in Furtick, because he's a minor celebrity. His name is all over Christian circles, he's simply coming into speak. That and it isn't like Furtick has done anything illegal (Franzese) or been involved in multiple marriages (Trump). He simply has some practices some a handful of Christians have a problem with.

Even so, he hasn't even done anything different than what the Graham's have done in the past. The only reason why his practices are receiving so much publicity is because of the Charlotte media, who hates Furtick.

thepostman wrote:I hold those who claim to be Christians to a higher standard that come in to speak than the non-Christian speakers that come in to speak to the student body. I realize he is a decent writer but it doesn't take away the borderline blasphemous way he goes about leading his church.

Again, this isn't the first time I disagreed with a Liberty decision and it won't be the last.

I've disagreed with plenty of Liberty decisions as well. If you go and read through just about any of the boards, you'll find that I'm anything but a Liberty homer.

I just don't think we should be nitpicking who Liberty brings in to speak at convo.

This is interesting.

VAGolf wrote:
Because in a church, you wouldn't want to bring in someone who you philosophically disagree with or a person with whom you have problems. However, convo is just an event meant to expose the students to all sorts of speakers and cultures. We've brought in Ben Stein (Jewish), Donald Trump (CEO), Michael Franzese (former mafia member), James Brown (CBS announcer), Michelle Bachman (politician) and Willie Robertson (CEO). It's not a church. We're bringing in Furtick, because he's a minor celebrity. His name is all over Christian circles, he's simply coming into speak. That and it isn't like Furtick has done anything illegal (Franzese) or been involved in multiple marriages (Trump). He simply has some practices some a handful of Christians have a problem with.

Even so, he hasn't even done anything different than what the Graham's have done in the past. The only reason why his practices are receiving so much publicity is because of the Charlotte media, who hates Furtick.

FIFY

BJWilliams wrote:

VAGolf wrote:
Because in a church, you wouldn't want to bring in someone who you philosophically disagree with or a person with whom you have problems. However, convo is just an event meant to expose the students to all sorts of speakers and cultures. We've brought in Ben Stein (Jewish), Donald Trump (CEO), Michael Franzese (former mafia member), James Brown (CBS announcer), Michelle Bachman (politician) and Willie Robertson (CEO). It's not a church. We're bringing in Furtick, because he's a minor celebrity. His name is all over Christian circles, he's simply coming into speak. That and it isn't like Furtick has done anything illegal (Franzese) or been involved in multiple marriages (Trump). He simply has some practices some a handful of Christians have a problem with.

Even so, he hasn't even done anything different than what the Graham's have done in the past. The only reason why his practices are receiving so much publicity is because of the Charlotte media, who hates Furtick.

FIFY

Preciate that

VAGolf wrote:He simply has some practices some a handful of Christians have a problem with.

Even so, he hasn't even done anything different than what the Graham's have done in the past. The only reason why his practices are receiving so much publicity is because of the Charlotte media, who hates Furtick.

Sure, feel free to minimize it, but absolutely I think we should scrutinize who LU brings in for convo. ESPECIALLY when it comes to pastors. No, convocation can't technically be called a church, both Biblically and for legal reasons, but when you start with praise, prayer, and then a sermon, things are a little different than when you have someone from an obviously secular position.

It's a mistake and a disservice to the students and faculty.

But, at least the students will be exposed to a dynamic speech. There's that.

It's not just a dynamic speech and you know that. You're trying to minimize his message as well. He may have some messed up Biblical views in some areas but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. His last book (Greater) was theologically sound and very good. I haven't read anything more than the intro of his newest book (Crashing The Chatterbox) but the topic is very much needed. If it's as sound as his last book, and I haven't heard that it isn't, then by all means I'm for him coming to Liberty and teaching on the subject.

Ive had a chance to hear Pastor Furtick twice and found his messages to be both very timely and theologically sound. Now I don't know all the nonsense that has you wanting LU to rescind their invitation, ALUmnus, nor do I need to know at this point. If the school only wanted perfect people to speak in convo there would not BE any convo. I look forward to hearing his message whether Im sitting in a classroom subbing or at home with my wife or wherever I may be when that takes place.

SuperJon wrote:It's not just a dynamic speech and you know that. You're trying to minimize his message as well. He may have some messed up Biblical views in some areas but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. His last book (Greater) was theologically sound and very good. I haven't read anything more than the intro of his newest book (Crashing The Chatterbox) but the topic is very much needed. If it's as sound as his last book, and I haven't heard that it isn't, then by all means I'm for him coming to Liberty and teaching on the subject.

Actually, I disagree with everything you said there. See, for me, Scripture is about Christ. For people like Furtick, it's about us. Furtick is about self, and it reeks from everything he writes. There's very little he has to offer that's sound.

Here's Matt Chandler preaching at Steve Furtick's "Code Orange Revival", and it was a big deal at the time, because he went out there and completely took Furtick's message and Elevation Church to task for their narcissism.

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