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Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#31821
Its sad for those of us who grew up in GARBC churches to see the group fall so far. I think Cedarville sided with the right camp in this instance. Then again, as a now Southern Baptist with many Cedarville ties I have my own biased viewpoint.
GARBC severs ties with Cedarville because of SBC ties . . .

Sep 25, 2006
By David Roach
Baptist Press


CEDARVILLE, Ohio (BP)--The president of Cedarville University says his school is glad to be endorsed by Southern Baptists despite a recent decision by the General Association of Regular Baptist Churches (GARBC) to sever ties with Cedarville because of perceived liberalism in the SBC.

In June the GARBC voted 311-283 at its annual meeting in Lansing, Mich., not to allow Cedarville to set up a display at the GARBC Conference or participate in a GARBC scholarship program. The decision came in response to a 2002 decision by the State Convention of Baptists in Ohio to recommend Cedarville to the state's Southern Baptists.

Bill Brown, president of Cedarville, said Southern Baptists long have enjoyed a cordial relationship with Cedarville and that the GARBC decision is difficult to understand.

"We've always had Southern Baptist students at Cedarville," he told Baptist Press. "We've had Southern Baptists on our board for 40 years. So it's not like there hasn't been some relationship with Southern Baptists that goes way back."

At its June meeting the GARBC approved a statement entitled "Ecclesiastical Separation and Its Associational Applications" outlining the body's commitment to separate from those who compromise the truth or practice sin.

John Greening, GARBC national representative, recommended to messengers at the annual meeting that they sever ties with Cedarville in accordance with the fellowship's commitment to "biblical separation -- from sin and error and unto holiness and truth."

Expressing thankfulness for the SBC's conservative resurgence, Greening added, "It is obvious that the SBC is a work in progress" and cited alleged examples of perceived problems in the SBC.

"The newly elected SBC president describes himself as a conservative inerrantist, yet he has issued a call for more open dialogue on theological issues," Greening said in a statement of SBC president Frank Page. "A 15-foot statue of Billy Graham was unveiled two weeks ago at the SBC meeting in North Carolina. We praise the Lord for many who have come to faith in Christ through Billy Graham's preaching. However there is no one in evangelical circles who has done more to blur the lines of distinction between Evangelicals and Catholics than Billy Graham."

At a press conference following his election in June, Page affirmed the SBC's conservative resurgence and said as president he would seek to "reach out to godly, conservative men and women who perhaps have not been utilized in the past."

Greening commended the decision by the SBC's International Mission Board not to permit missionaries to practice a private prayer language but cited as problematic the lack of unanimous support for the policy in the SBC as well as IMB president Jerry Rankin's practice of a private prayer language.

"When you change the boundaries, you change your identity," Greening said in the statement. "It may appear in the short term you are making gains, but in the long term you jeopardize your organizational integrity. It is the position of our constitution that a church's dual affiliation with both the GARBC and the SBC is not permissible."

When contacted by Baptist Press, a GARBC spokesman declined to give any comment beyond what the group had already put in print.

Despite the officially severed partnership, a significant number of GARBC students remain at Cedarville, Brown said. He estimated that more than 50 percent of the university's 3,100 students are Baptist and said a majority of that group attends GARBC churches.

"There are 50 years of history between Cedarville and the GARBC," Brown said. "We've developed a lot of friendships over the years, and frankly a lot of the pastors in GARBC churches are Cedarville grads, and a lot of the people attending the churches are Cedarville grads. We're always going to have a strong tie to the churches in the fellowship."

After the GARBC's decision this summer, Brown wrote a letter to GARBC churches expressing support for them and a commitment to continue supporting their ministries. Many of the churches responded positively, Brown said.

"We have a lot of GARBC churches that have written me expressing support and encouragement, saying, 'We're still with you. We don't care what they say.' That's been encouraging," he said.

Jack Kwok, executive director of the State Convention of Baptists in Ohio, said the relationship between Cedarville and Ohio Baptists began after Ohio Baptists conducted a study on starting a college.

"At the conclusion of that study we determined that if we were to start a school, it would be just like Cedarville University," Kwok, who serves on the Cedarville board of trustees, told Baptist Press. "So why reproduce something that was already there? They were biblically sound [and] a high academic quality school. So we endorsed officially at our convention Cedarville University, recommending Cedarville to all Southern Baptists in our state and any Southern Baptists anywhere."

Kwok stressed that Cedarville does not receive any Cooperative Program money. He also expressed respect for GARBC believers and affirmed their right to make decisions as an autonomous fellowship.

"We wanted to come along and join people that we considered in like theological positions and having a heartbeat for winning people to Jesus that shared our calling," Kwok said of Cedarville. "In no way do we want to reflect anything negatively on the GARBC."

Through the conflict Cedarville remains committed to its doctrinal statement and to serving Baptists, Brown said. Cedarville's doctrinal statement affirms inerrancy.

"It's like we've been sailing through these choppy waters but we've been very steady because we haven't changed our doctrinal statement," he said. "We haven't changed anything. We've just said, 'Yes you can send your students here.' And all of the sudden this broke out around us. We've just kind of been slow and steady through all of it."

Cedarville has been associated with the CARBC since 1953. The college's bylaws require that eight pastors from the Ohio Association of Regular Baptist Churches sit on its board of trustees.

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User avatar
By PAmedic
Registration Days Posts
#31834
oh for cryin' out loud.

and thats all I got to say 'bout dat.
By Libertine
Registration Days Posts
#31859
Once again, the only real downside to Christianity is Christians. I had no idea that Billy Graham was such a divisive figure. :roll:
User avatar
By PAmedic
Registration Days Posts
#31899
I couldn't have said that better myself, LIB.

RIGHT ON!
By Baldspot
Registration Days Posts
#31970
Billy Graham said in a recent Newsweek article that the Bible isn't always true. He specially stated the Genesis account of creation probably can't be taken literally.

That being said, perhaps LU will get some more students out of GARBC's mistake.
By Libertine
Registration Days Posts
#31972
Baldspot wrote:Billy Graham said in a recent Newsweek article that the Bible isn't always true. He specially stated the Genesis account of creation probably can't be taken literally.

That being said, perhaps LU will get some more students out of GARBC's mistake.
The fact that that appeared in 'Newsweek' raises bouceaup red flags for me. Not saying it isn't true but I'd certainly want to double-check the source on that one.
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By El Scorcho
Registration Days Posts
#31979
Baldspot wrote:Billy Graham said in a recent Newsweek article that the Bible isn't always true.
I read that interview and don't recall that part. It's entirely possible that I just glossed over it since it was waiting room reading, but I'd like to think I would remember that. Got a scan of the quote or a link to an online version?
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#31994
Baldspot wrote:Billy Graham said in a recent Newsweek article that the Bible isn't always true. He specially stated the Genesis account of creation probably can't be taken literally.
That being said, perhaps LU will get some more students out of GARBC's mistake.
now that would be a fun debate
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By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#32008
now i have been raised in baptist churches all my life, but is it me or are baptist the most rediculous Christians in the world?? rediculous.....i am sure God loves all the leaders fighting over the dumb crap the argue about.....
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#32009
The thing is, he very well could've been referring to the belief that many hold that one day to God is different than one day to man. It's funny how things can not come across as they should.
By Baldspot
Registration Days Posts
#32016
Newsweek.com would only give a few excerpts of the article which I've cut and pasted. The entire article is password protected. Personally I have a lot of respect for Billy Graham but at times he has done some screwy things. For instance, during his last NYC revival he invited Bill and Hillary onto the platform. All good, but then he went on to say how he thought Hillary would make a great president to the hundred thousand or so in Central Park and those watching on TV.

Two exceprts:

Graham spends hours now with his Bible, at once savoring and reconsidering old stories and old lessons.
"I'm not a literalist in the sense that every single jot and tittle is from the Lord," Graham says in the current issue of Newsweek. "This is a little difference in my thinking through the years. There are things that I just
don't understand."

He is sure and certain of his faith in Jesus as the way to salvation, but when asked whether he believes heaven will be closed to good Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus or secular people, Graham says: "Those are decisions only the Lord will make. It would be foolish for me to speculate on who will be there and
who won't ... I don't want to speculate about all that. I believe the love of God is absolute. He said he gave his son for the whole world, and I think he loves everybody regardless of what label they have."
By Libertine
Registration Days Posts
#32048
I could care less about BG's thoughts on politics. He's been a Democrat, albeit a conservative one, all his life. I mean, come on, he's 85+. He probably thought he was talking about Sir Edmund Hillary. :wink:
Graham spends hours now with his Bible, at once savoring and reconsidering old stories and old lessons.
"I'm not a literalist in the sense that every single jot and tittle is from the Lord," Graham says in the current issue of Newsweek.
Again, I have no special allegiance to BG, but I don't take Newsweek quotes at face value. For instance:
He is sure and certain of his faith in Jesus as the way to salvation, but when asked whether he believes heaven will be closed to good Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus or secular people, Graham says: "Those are decisions only the Lord will make."
That's true.
It would be foolish for me to speculate on who will be there and
who won't.
Also true.
I believe the love of God is absolute. He said he gave his son for the whole world, and I think he loves everybody regardless of what label they have."
Also true.

Lumped altogether, the quote seems to indicate one thing but if you break it down statement by statement, it means something else entirely. Newsweek loves to do that. Anytime you see an ellipsis in a Newsweek quote, you can pretty much toss the whole paragraph out.
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#32050
Hey Lib, shouldn't you be at convo?
By Libertine
Registration Days Posts
#32068
SuperJon wrote:Hey Lib, shouldn't you be at convo?
Oh, poor SJ, some of us have jobs (a novel enough concept to you, I know) that require us to be in multiple locations at any given moment. Thanks to the good people at IBM and Red Bull, the laws of time and space are now only semi-immutable. BTW, where were you this morning?
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#32079
Off-campus, no class til 11:30. I was getting ready for school.
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