Our Christian foundation is what makes our university unique. This is the place to bring prayer requests, discuss theological issues and how to become better Champions for Christ.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

User avatar
By El Scorcho
Registration Days Posts
#36808
Sly Fox wrote:All those goody commenrcials where they pretend Macs don't get any viruses is not accurate though. I'm a big fan of Final Cuts Pro, otherwise in today's business environment you pretty much arte forced into MS Office on a Windows platform. Yeah, I know there are Mac-compatibles. But it is what it is.
A few questions:

First, how is the virus claim not accurate? To date, there are no known viruses for Mac OS X. None. Zero. Nada. Zilch.

Second, I also have been using Microsoft Office on the Mac for a while, and I have no problems. In fact, Office 2004 with the latest Service Packs is really very nice.

Third, if I need Windows, I can just reboot my Mac and run Windows now. Since Apple transitioned to Intel chips, all of the new Macs can run Windows, too. In just three clicks, I can be booting Windows just like any other PC laptop. Except that when I'm done doing whatever it is I needed/wanted to do (most likely playing a video game), I can reboot back into the best operating system in the world. :)
User avatar
By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#36813
We ran a story the other day talking about how Macs have become the top target of virus and worm writers since most Mac owners feel invincible.
User avatar
By El Scorcho
Registration Days Posts
#36819
Hmm. Wonder what was backing that story up? Apple still only has around 5% of the market share so, the wisdom among geeks is "Why bother?". If you're going to take the time to write a virus, might as well go for the big numbers.

Anyway, to be targeted is one thing. To be successfully attacked is another. Mac users are smug because they're right. Someday a virus or may find it's way onto the platform, but even then we're talking about one virus for an operating system that's been out for almost seven years. In the same time period well over 100,000 successful viruses have been released for Microsoft Windows.

There's a lot of debate as to the how and why of that fact, but the bottom line is that there's still not a single virus out there for Mac OS X. :)
By Jasmen8182
Registration Days Posts
#36844
Last week I mentioned my keys "sticking"- we're going to have to replace our battery.
User avatar
By El Scorcho
Registration Days Posts
#36846
Ohhhh. So it's a wireless keyboard?
By FlamingYalieWahoo
Registration Days Posts
#36857
For the record, I've had 3 Dells - 2 laptops and 1 desktop. My wife has had 2 laptops and 1 desk top. NO PROBLEMS AT ALL WITH THE DELLS OR WINDOWS. Each replacement was because I had upgraded them to the max. Oh my wife did have a laptop screen burnout but she was leaving it up 24/7 for work purposes. It took about 2 years to kill it. That goes back to somewhere around 1998.
By cws1007
Registration Days Posts
#36919
Though I'm MAC at heart, I support the purchase of a Dell if you have to buy a PC.

I've heard good and bad. Never owned one, and hopefully will never have to, but all Dell laptops are made in Nashville, TN. So, I appreciate the economic effect which the operation has on the area. Though Michael Dell looks at Nashville as a step-child, his business has been good.

The plant is quite amazing. Truckloads of parts come in on one side. Assembly lines fill the building, and off comes your computer on the opposite side to be loaded on the trucks for shipping to the customer. You can actually stand in the board rooms and overlook the entire operation floor.

So, for all of the PC lovers - go buy Dell laptops!


For all of my MAC buddies - only we get it. :-)
User avatar
By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#36930
I admit some animosity to Dell when they laid off my wife back when we lived in Round Rock.
User avatar
By El Scorcho
Registration Days Posts
#36937
cws1007 wrote:So, for all of the PC lovers - go buy Dell laptops!


For all of my MAC buddies - only we get it. :-)
I agree 100%.
By Rocketfan
Registration Days Posts
#36951
I haven't bought a computer in about 6 years...still have my sony desktop which has just now crapped out.....i want to get a mini-mac.....have you heard anything bad about them? I used mac all thru college but the wife wouldn't even consider one, but i have talked her into it. Also any idea where to get them the for less?
User avatar
By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#36953
OK, this thread has been hijacked beyond belief. Let's try to get this back on track as a minstry roll call. Please take the Mac vs PC discussion over to the Courtyard.
User avatar
By HarrisburgFlame
Registration Days Posts
#39540
I am practically in the missions field for protestants up here in central PA. My chruch here is small - about 220 total members - but we are very active in church planting in the central region. Our mid-range plans include moving to a membership of about 500 then in about 5 to 7 years being at 800. We have a Pastor, Assoc. Pastor, looking to hire a Dir. of Education and a worship leader full time. I'm involved with the budget and planning and my stance is a church our size doesn't need 4 full time leaders. Their argument is by adding two more to the leadership team we can go get more members and the pastor has a clear vision this is what he has been called to do. It's the whole chicken or the egg deal. I would like to hear similar success/failure stories if you have them.

Name: Alex Almond
Church here: East Shore Baptist Church Harrisburg, PA
By FlamingYalieWahoo
Registration Days Posts
#39576
I believe the rule of thumb for staffing in a church is one additional staff person for every 300 people. This a United Methodist (among other denominations) recommendation and for the most part on staffing issues and such the UMC hierarchy tends to be pretty accurate - on some of their theology and social policy its a whole 'nother story. So from what you have said - you need to grow a little more before you add more staff. Although there's also that too big to be a small church and too small to be a big church problem that strains budgets and tempers. I will pray and if I can find the documentation about staffing recommendations I'll pass it along.
User avatar
By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#39585
Old rules of thumb have been kind of blown up in recent years with the explosive growths of suburban megachauches across the nation. But the 300 rule is the generally accepted notion for most churches. Ecenomics are the ture determinining factor IMHO. If your ministry can afford to bring on more staff, then it probably is something that needs to be considered in order to facilitate a further outreach for the church. Another factor would be the primary focus of an individual church. If you have a congregation that is primarily made up of older folks and is heavy on the teaching side, then you probably need less staff than a seeker church aimed at young families who bring with them lots of children.
User avatar
By TallyW
Registration Days Posts
#39642
It's not about number of people per staff member it's about dollars. There are limited dollars. When talking to people about ministry budgets we can't always assume that what we've heard always applies. The Lead Pastor must have some type of philosophy about staff. Find out what that is. Some churches spend 30% of the budget on staff while I've seen others that spend upwards of 80% on staff. Some churches claim to be waiting for growth before hiring staff while others say "act like you're double" and plan ahead to get the numbers.

I honestly can't think of one good reason why a church has an associate Pastor but no music or children's staff member. I certainly can't see why the need for a Director of Education at a church of 220. I would think you'd want to get a worship pastor and children's ministry director before anything else and I'd want to find out what exactly that Associate Pastor is doing. I'm sure he/she's being used in some major areas but it seems strange to have two staff of Pastor and Associate (with no focus area).

A rule of thumb is that a church will typically bring in about $1,000 per person in attendance. If your church is running 220 then the budget reflects something close (depending on age and spiritual maturity of the group you could be up closer to the 300k range. When you consider hiring a new staff member you consider the entire package (housing,salary,health) and also ministry items such as phone expense and the necessary budget increase. You can't hire someone and give them no budget to get their job done.

As a Pastor I feel comfortable with staff packages taking up about 60% of the resources so in your churchs' case I'd be fine with the church spending about $130k or so on the staff. Then a question of how well you take care of your staff comes in. I personally believe there is too much movement and that churches should pay well for a staff member who can add value to the church so with that budget I'd say 3 staff max and that's pushing it. As for 1 staff person per 300... I don't agree with that at all. That may work when you increase the church size to the 1200 range... but not at the 200 range. That is too big for one and too small for multiple... but I'd go multiple with the belief that they are going to be worth their money and bring in more people.

Just my $ .02
User avatar
By HarrisburgFlame
Registration Days Posts
#39700
Thanks to all of you. Great points. I am kind of being made out to be a bit of a demon on this additional staff deal. Having a business background I think that you have to have faith but at the same time God gives wisdom to make sound decisions and we need to be good stewarts when it comes to finanaces. Our church will not make budget for this year. As of November 15th we have exhausted our funds for the year. We launched a campaign last year to raise $125,000 to bring in the two additional staff members - we wanted to cover one year salary for both. We raised about half of that. Our Associate Pastor handles the children's ministry. Right now we have volunteers leading worship - but the caveat is we have a guy who is a professional musician in the mix - problem with him is he wants full control of how music is done. He is a fantastic entertainer but many think he's abrasive because he wants to get rid of those who to be brutally honest - can't sing that well.

My proposal along with cutting remaining budgets for the year to meet overhead expenses was to launch a discipleship training and prepare a formalize "recruiting" campaign to get fannies in the seats and $$$ in the offering plates. I also suggested we put the money we have raised for the new staff and invest it in a short term investment (pending approval of the membership) let the money gain some interest instead of just sitting. The counter to me is that they want the new Pastor to head the education department and he will be the one coordinating the discipleship program - thus bringing folks into the church. The man the pastor has tabbed for this job has his doctorate and his been in the ministry for almost 40 years. He's also the mentor/teacher for our current pastor. He is an excellent preacher but I keep going back to "how many preachers do we need"? Furthermore our preacher believes he was given a clear vision to grow the church and getting the new people in place is a prerequisite. Needless to say when some of us lay people raise concerns it's seen as not sharing the vision.

At the end of the day I believe there are some churches that are meant to be smaller - I don't think that is the case with us. I share the vision of our church being a bigger church - we are young - lots of kids - great setting - and active. Our pastor and associate pastor are paid well and deservingly so! I'm just not so sure taking on two more big salaries is the answer for getting people in our church. I'm more a fan of a coordinated "recruiting" effort - kind of like Dr. Falwell did. You know - the Donald Duck Bottling Company story :>)

Thanks again. Any and all input is welcome!
By FlamingYalieWahoo
Registration Days Posts
#39740
One of the dangers of too many staff members is that it makes the laity lazy. The laity start to think they can pay somebody to do the things that they should be doing - children's ministry, outreach, visiting the sick. Yeah, its the clergy's job to teach them and lead them in doing these things but if you become overly dependent on any staff member and they leave you lose momentum. If you have a group of laity organizing, leading, and staffing the various ministries your goals and approaches don't go through the same major overhauls they tend to do with each new personality who takes it over.
By Jasmen8182
Registration Days Posts
#40731
I grew up in First Baptist Church of EastLongmeadow,MA. The youth pastor/assoc. were the same person.... Lay people ran child. programs (Awana....) The church has had a school for over 20 yrs. now, the Assoc. Pastor handles music.... Things got juggled around some when I visited last yr. The Children's Pastor was put on salary (not just working for the school?) abt. 10 yrs. ago but has since moved. I do't know if they replaced him, but they have at least 3 pastors- not sure of congregation #'s but they hav been raising $ to add classroom and church space for a few yrs.

The discipleship MINISTRY has 3 facets-the youth pastor (did) run (s) it; members go through a 1-on-1 back-to-basics of the faith; the next level is taking a class on how to teach the 1-on-1; everyone involved is expected to be ministering in the church. It is a very good way for people to get rooted in doctrine and find ays to b involved in the church.
User avatar
By 62Strat
Registration Days Posts Posts
#89503
I know this is an old thread, but We are currently at Bidding Creek Southern Baptist Church in rural northeast Oklahoma. Its a wonderful family oriented church (never met a person we didnt like) on the average we run in the mid fifties. Now going on our third year and its wonderful to see God move in the lives of his people on a daily basis. If you would have told me back in 1980 when my dad dropped me off at the old Stewart arms as a radio major that I would be a pastor I would have laughed out loud! Thank God For Liberty and all he has done through the years with so many that have walked in the red mud of Liberty mountain (or have they finally got all of that nassty red mud covered up! ;0))
User avatar
By 62Strat
Registration Days Posts Posts
#89506
btw third year as pastor of that church. The church is actually over seventy years in the same location now.
User avatar
By bigsmooth
Registration Days Posts
#89511
welcome to the baord 62strat.
User avatar
By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#90038
Its great to have another pastor on the board, 62strat.

Even if you are an Okie. :wink:

If you are new to the board, we welcome you to share where you are involved in this thread.
User avatar
By bbrothers224
Registration Days Posts
#96805
Billy Brothers (and my wife Page)
Hope Church in Richmond, VA (meet at Godwin HS - moving to new building in Goochland next year)
http://www.hopecentral.com/
User avatar
By bbrothers224
Registration Days Posts
#96809
Anonymous wrote:
I go to a great little church out here in So. Cal called Saddleback. I've been there about 20 years so I have seen a few changes. If you ever hear us called "Christian-lite" don't believe it.

Also, I work for a ministry called Open Doors. It was started 50 years ago by a guy named "Brother Andrew". It works with the persecuted church and Christians around the world.

And oh, my name is John Brown. I went to LU 80-82. A bit different (and a lot better) today. Don't confuse me with someone who thinks Jerry's gone liberal.



:D
Hey John,

I think I knew you back then. You had blonde hair? Did you know Gary Williams? I may even have a photo of you in my college photo album.
User avatar
By qkslvrsrfrboy
Registration Days Posts
#244316
it was interested reading through this thread and how it went to bots and then macs. Anyways,

Benjamin Read
Director of Youth and Children's Ministries
Hebron Baptist Church, Appomattox, VA

And my church definitely breaks the rules of the whole 300 = 1 staff member, we have about 75 people in service every week, and 2 staff members. Granted I am only part time, but I still have seen how faithfully these people give. Were going on a mission trip this summer with alot of people from the church, and no one has to pay a dime,someone gives money every year to pay for the entire expense
NCAA Realignment Megathread

At what point in history was the ACC ever any bett[…]

Dondi Costin - LU President

With all due respect, Atrain was in Dallas in his […]

LaTech

I also keep tab with JMU because there is a player[…]

JMU for 6 games

The fact of the matter is, JMU and Liberty could n[…]